Player of the decade Earl or Sigel?
- Thread starter Raph Cleary
- Start date
This post is about as clear for anyone fairly new to the game from 2000 on that has no idea about Sigel and only know him from the IPT.I agree Stu, Mike says 39-in his mind he was “done”. And yes he played a few more times and IPT but without going into his personal biz (I will never put his private biz on here or anywhere) he’s told me many many times at 39 he was “all done” with being a pro-his reasons were sound and valid. So that’s the official retirement age.
He played all around a hair better than Earl, however Earls high gear 9B was next level. Which is widely accepted and known by players and fans alike.
The duration of Earls career is amazing.
Down the home stretch nobody could close like Mike. That’s something he could do better than anyone.
Efren could find shots where others couldn’t.
Johnny is Johnny
SVB has the 10B break
They are all in the conversation for something. But to address the OP. Mike has the win by a nose hair. Maybe.
Best
Fatboy
I'd call it a tie! And Buddy wasn't far behind either. If you include bar table tourneys he may have won more than both of them. And then there's Nick Varner! No question Earl had a higher gear at 9-Ball than anyone back then. No one strung racks like he did match after match. But if he and Mike met in the finals, Earl rarely won. Mike has the edge in an All Around match though. He was superior to Earl in Straight Pool and One Pocket and probably Banks as well. Earl was a 9-Ball specialist, but could play all the other games including Straight Pool. He preferred to focus on 9-Ball since all the biggest tournaments at that time were 9-Ball events.
One thing for sure, it was a golden era for Pool in America. Sigel, Strickland, Varner, Hall, Parica, Miz, Davenport, Crane, Rempe, Howard and Hopkins leading the charge. The second string was pretty strong too. Reid, Fusco, Martin, Mataya, Carter, Medina, Ellin, Massey, Williams, Diliberto and a dozen more I'm leaving out. You had to do something to win a 64 man tournament back then. Believe me, Efren may have won his first event in Houston, but it was no cakewalk for him or his buddy Luat after that. Parica was the best player of them all, but he rarely won a tournament against this formidable line up.
Just my take on things in that era.
thenaturalpoolplayer
Active member
The quality of pool back when Siegel was playing was slightly better than any local 8 ball beer league today...so Earl.
The only American pool player whos level of play back then could be considered "Professional" by todays standards is Earl Strickland.
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What’s your take on Efren’s skill level in those years versus the next decade and the next. As a Filipino begging for him to win and him almost always coming up short against all of the above tournament after tournament, I was always disappointed he didnt win more tournaments.
I always felt (and feel) that his skils aside from one pocket didnt improve, but the better equipment negated the other players’ break advantage. Plus all of those players were past their prime in the 90’s except Strickland. Even when Buddy won his US Open titles, he was past his prime.
thenaturalpoolplayer
Active member
Efren took the American players to school...plain and simple.
thenaturalpoolplayer
Active member
Golden era? Garbage tables, CLOTH, and players you wouldn't exactly call "technically sound". The Golden era for pool in the US has been basically Shane and Earl. Now they just can't compete with the Europeans...which brings me to my next question about the Mosconi cup...why is it the US against Europe? It should be the other way around...European countries against North America...because their talent pool is so deep and North America not so much.
I think of pool back then like the early UFC and Efren was Gracie....you could see all the different styles of fighting etc. just like you could see different players with different shooting styles and quirks like Sigel wiggling all over the place, and side arm from the Mcready...or the players couldn't get down on the shot because of their beer bellys. Now all the fighters look the same, as do all the top pool players because THAT is simply the best way to shoot/fight.
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something wrong with you. i watched a ton of pool in thos days. you're so far off base its a joke, like everything else you post. back to the Ignore kennel you go. wow. talk about clueless.
Earl is a much better player than Mike and is still going strong.
Also Earl is one of the only players from the 80s that still is competitive (a ridiculously great accomplishment)
I was not around pool in the 80s, but saw plenty of Mike in the 2000s and he is no Earl
My opinion
Because the Mosconi Cup has been played for coming up on 30 years and at the time it started there was like 17 people in all of Europe who played pool regularly. They even had to fill out their teams with snooker players. Are you like 14 years old or something? Your knowledge on quite a lot of things seems to be severely lacking, or is this just your troll account?
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This is the problem with only seeing Sigel in 2000. He was 10 years retired! You read every poster who was actual following pool incredibly closely (Jay Helfert, Fatboy, SJM etc.) telling everyone that Sigel was at worst tied with Earl. It’s impossible to have seen “plenty of Mike in the 2000s.” That would be like just watching Efren today for the first time and making judgements of his 2000’s One Pocket prowess.
Mike was pretty much in semi-retirement by 1990-91. We're not talking about the 2000's much less now.
Your a cliw
However, it's hard for me to to rate a guy ahead of Earl who's career was so short.
That's just me
Your right.
However, it's hard for me to to rate a guy ahead of Earl who's career was so short.
That's just me
He's asking about ONE decade, the 1980's not a career. Its a toss-up based on the tourn. results but Mike was clearly a better all-around player.
I'm yet again "adjusting" my view of Sigel after watching some more of him. I watched his most recent all-around match with Earl and although I recognize this is a Sigel that's way past his prime and not in top form -- I was still thoroughly impressed with his play. I realize the things about his technique that I was critical of -- masked the most important technique for any pool player --- delivering the cue in a straight line. The guy may have had the straightest cue delivery of his time, and I now agree that he would fit right in at the top of today's game. I still think he would have to tighten up a few minor things, but he would no doubt be able to do that being the competitor that he was.
I also think Earl has gotten a lot better at other aspects of the game as he has aged. He rolls balls better than he used to, which is a skill more needed today than ever before. I think his kicking and safe game is better than a prime shotmaking Earl too. We all just assume Earl has lost so much as he's gotten older, but the reality is -- at least partially -- the overall skill level has grown dramatically and he had to keep working and evolve a bit to stay competitive for as long as he has.
Anyway, my vote is for Sigel.
--> I won't change my opinion anymore
I also think Earl has gotten a lot better at other aspects of the game as he has aged. He rolls balls better than he used to, which is a skill more needed today than ever before. I think his kicking and safe game is better than a prime shotmaking Earl too. We all just assume Earl has lost so much as he's gotten older, but the reality is -- at least partially -- the overall skill level has grown dramatically and he had to keep working and evolve a bit to stay competitive for as long as he has.
Anyway, my vote is for Sigel.
--> I won't change my opinion anymore
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
I'd take 90s Earl over 80s Sigel all day and early 2000s Earl is on another planet, but 80s Earl just wasn't as good, so I guess Mike gets the nod. Efren's asswhoopins lit a fire under Earl to develop the tactical side of his game. 2002 World Champ Earl is about as good as you will see him.
1995 race to 120 with Efren was probably his technical peak (till he either dumped the last day or fell victim to the downside of being bipolar). But he was a smarter player after that and learned a lot from Reyes. Around that time he also borrowed some mechanical concepts from snooker players (from playing the Mosconi?).
1995 race to 120 with Efren was probably his technical peak (till he either dumped the last day or fell victim to the downside of being bipolar). But he was a smarter player after that and learned a lot from Reyes. Around that time he also borrowed some mechanical concepts from snooker players (from playing the Mosconi?).
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thenaturalpoolplayer
Active member
First string was Earl
Yeah and how about now? Time to change or you guys will continue to get embarrassed, especially with the new players coming up...skylar??? That other dude with the 50's hairdo? please. How do you think they will do against the likes of Filler, kaci, sanchez,kazakas, gorst?
That’s another thread/discussion
We know what we are talking about here as we have lived it out our whole life’s. This isn’t a new hobby we picked up in the last few years. There’s 100’s of years of experience talking here. Listen and learn.
Later
Fatboy
Sigel
thenaturalpoolplayer
Active member
If you were doing it right...if you did just take up the hobby 3 years ago you would be playing in the Mosconi cup. btw I like how Earls polls improved after I educated you all on how skilled he was compared to the other players of his time.