Player responses to the IPT.

[thefifteen]

I think it would be a good idea for the players to respond to KT as one in terms of supporting a future tour, possibly taking advice first.

I am sure that the vast majority of the players hope that the IPT carries on and becomes successful even if it is on a reduced scale.

There would obviously need to be safeguards in place, and no communication should jeopardise their existing rights should things take a turn for the worse.

Is anyone in a position to arrange this? I am not sure how far the players union progressed?

 

[JAM]

I think it would be a good idea for the players to respond to KT as one in terms of supporting a future tour, possibly taking advice first.

I am sure that the vast majority of the players hope that the IPT carries on and becomes successful even if it is on a reduced scale.

If I understand your thoughts correctly, in case you had not heard, Kevin Trudeau through his tournament director, Deno Andrews, e-mailed IPT players a letter asking for exactly what you have stated.

I should state that not all IPT players are connected to the Internet, but the ones who are did receive an e-mail from Kevin Trudeau via Deno Andrews which directed them to please respond. The letter I am referring to is posted in this IPT forum.

There would obviously need to be safeguards in place, and no communication should jeopardise their existing rights should things take a turn for the worse.

Communication is a hot topic for me, as it pertains to the IPT. I think the communication the IPT has exerted to date has been poor.

Is anyone in a position to arrange this? I am not sure how far the players union progressed?

Well, this is news to me. I have not been told of a "players union." I hope it is not confined to a "good old boy's club" mentality and only a few of the IPT players are contacted while all others are left out to dry.

Somethings damn things never do change, do they, when it comes to American pool!

JAM

 

[thefifteen]

I'm not sure JAM. I know when I was in Manilla the players I back all sent e-mails to Linda I think? At the time it was being suggested that the players should just accept a third of the Reno payments.

I am not sure how far this progressed. I think it is in the best interests of the players to send one letter to KT rather than reply individually for two reasons.

1. The content can be worded to express support from all the players as a group which can then be consulted about the future. KT would be in no doubt about this and have a formal means of communication with the players as a group.
2. Assuming things do not go well no information will have been provided that can be detrimental to the players, and there will be no excuses for the IPT that could effect the players existing rights.

 

[JAM]

I think it would be a good idea for the players to respond to KT as one in terms of supporting a future tour, possibly taking advice first.

I am sure that the vast majority of the players hope that the IPT carries on and becomes successful even if it is on a reduced scale.

There would obviously need to be safeguards in place, and no communication should jeopardise their existing rights should things take a turn for the worse.

Here is a reprint of Kevin Trudeau's letter sent out to ONLY the IPT players who are connected via the Internet, my friend, for your review: Dear IPT Players & Entrants of the 2007 Tour Card Qualifiers,

The IPT 2007 Season has still not been determined. We are still in the process of revamping our business model based on the unforeseen legislation outlawing on-line gaming in the United States. Without our major online casino sponsor, the IPT must undergo a substantial change to its business model. I would like to see the IPT make a strong comeback from this dramatic setback that we have had to deal with. The most important updates are as follows:

• Players from the 2006 World Open will continue to be paid monthly until you are paid in full. Payments will be made on the first of each month. No payment will be made February 1st. The next payment will be March 1st, 2007. The amount of each payment will be determined each month and may vary from time to time. It is our full intention to get everyone paid in full within the next six months.

• As I mentioned previously, for all those who entered 2007 Tour Card qualification tournaments, if we are not capable of fulfilling our commitments relating to the 2007 Tour, you will be refunded your enrollment fee. We plan on making an announcement on April 15, outlining the 2007 & 2008 seasons.

Thank you for your patience and understanding as we deal with these challenging and unavoidable market-condition situations.

I do have a request for everyone receiving this email. I love the game of pool and I am very much committed to continuing to invest my own money and time to making the IPT a successful reality for many years to come. I need to know if you, the players, want the IPT to flourish. I need to know if I have your support. If you, the players, could care less if the IPT continues operating, and if you, the players do not support me in this endeavor, then it would be foolish of me to continue pursuing this tour. Therefore, I request that you respond to this email letting me know if you want this tour to exist and if you support me personally.

I hope that together we can build a successful tour. Thank you again for all of your encouragement, support, and patience up until this point.

Very truly yours,

Kevin Trudeau
Founder, IPT

Hope this helps!

JAM

 

[JAM]

I'm not sure JAM. I know when I was in Manilla the players I back all sent e-mails to Linda I think? At the time it was being suggested that the players should just accept a third of the Reno payments.

IMHO, there are some things going on behind the scenes that conflict very much with each other, which should not be happening.

I am not sure how far this progressed. I think it is in the best interests of the players to send one letter to KT rather than reply individually for two reasons.

1. The content can be worded to express support from all the players as a group which can then be consulted about the future. KT would be in no doubt about this and have a formal means of communication with the players as a group.
2. Assuming things do not go well no information will have been provided that can be detrimental to the players, and there will be no excuses for the IPT that could effect the players existing rights.

So noted, thefifteen!

Please do remember that the last check received by IPT players who were owed monies from Reno had a check stub attached to it.

This check stub detailed how much monies have been paid to date and how much monies are still owed; the balance due, if you will.

Are you an IPT player?

JAM

 

[thefifteen]

I have seen this. I just think it would be better for the players not to reply individually but as a group for the reasons stated above.

I appreciate that many players will probably have replied already but I can only see this providing escape routes for the IPT.

 

[thefifteen]

No I am not but I do have a vested interest.

I would like to see the players get organised to make sure that the tour is given every chance to be successful which is what we all want.

In the event that this does not happen I would not like the IPT to have a bunch of easy escape routes and be able to blame the players. It is probably possible that these communications could be used later in court so it is important they are drafted correctly.

 

[rackmsuckr]

I'm not sure JAM. I know when I was in Manilla the players I back all sent e-mails to Linda I think? At the time it was being suggested that the players should just accept a third of the Reno payments.

I am not sure how far this progressed. I think it is in the best interests of the players to send one letter to KT rather than reply individually for two reasons.

1. The content can be worded to express support from all the players as a group which can then be consulted about the future. KT would be in no doubt about this and have a formal means of communication with the players as a group.
2. Assuming things do not go well no information will have been provided that can be detrimental to the players, and there will be no excuses for the IPT that could effect the players existing rights.

Just to clarify a couple things: I was merely an information gatherer (1 of 3 IPT members) and not the spokesperson for the player's union. In truth, there were many players who did not want to form a union.

At no time did the 'union' ever advise the players to accept only 1/3rd of their total prize money!

I have already replied to both Deno and KT. I would assume many others have too by now, since I waited about a week to formulate what I was going to say. Since there are so many differing opinions from all the players, I don't believe the goal of being unified in our responses is going to happen.

 

[macguy]

I think it would be a good idea for the players to respond to KT as one in terms of supporting a future tour, possibly taking advice first.

I am sure that the vast majority of the players hope that the IPT carries on and becomes successful even if it is on a reduced scale.

There would obviously need to be safeguards in place, and no communication should jeopardise their existing rights should things take a turn for the worse.

Is anyone in a position to arrange this? I am not sure how far the players union progressed?

What difference would any of that make? The consensus seems to be KT has the money to pay today and isn't doing it. What would be his interest in continuing the IPT? The players just want what they have coming as it stands now and kissing his ass will not further their cause.

Actions speak louder then words and KT's actions say he has no more interest in pool and wishes he could find a way to not even pay what he owes now. I feel sorry for the players who continue dreaming that he cares. It is probably not even healthy.

 

[Island Drive]

Just to clarify a couple things: I was merely an information gatherer (1 of 3 IPT members) and not the spokesperson for the player's union. In truth, there were many players who did not want to form a union.

At no time did the 'union' ever advise the players to accept only 1/3rd of their total prize money!

I have already replied to both Deno and KT. I would assume many others have too by now, since I waited about a week to formulate what I was going to say. Since there are so many differing opinions from all the players, I don't believe the goal of being unified in our responses is going to happen.

Ram, what's interesting about what you just said..............('being unified') .............parallel Black Jacks thoughts all along.

More importantly, by not having a spokesperson and a rock solid organization of the sport representing the pro players...........they will go 'nowhere'.

The problem has always been, no one (president) is willing or able to put the sport/game above all other or 'others' concerns.

The UPA is a perfect example of this, mind you I did attend meetings and saw the dissent and conflict between top players and the organization, no democracy, just factional in-fighting and permeation of personal agendas. The behind the scenes thoughts were samo/samo.

The pro players need to start "somewhere". They are still in the wheel chair and not willing to fight for their life, but some are good @ complaining.

 

[cueman]

When I think of the term "pro pool player I usually think of someone who had enough talent to do all kinds of things in life, but chose to spend enough time knocking balls around to become great at a game instead of acheiving higher goals. That reminds me of myself and yet I had not the skill to be a pro. But I know many pros and most are like me they are self employed. They get along better in life being self employed. Do you really expect a large group of self employed people who are used to being their own boss to get along good enough to all be in unity? Now throw the champion player ego in there on top of used to being the boss and you have no chance for a single voice. They can appoint someone and say you handle it and we will support you, but we will never all want all the same things, but we do all want the sport to succeed. That is why they backed Mackey. That is why they backed Charlie. That is why they backed KT. The average pro that I have talked to does not want to be told what to do and so on. They just want to show up and play pool and hopefully win some cash and they could care a less who puts on the event as long as is it is run fairly and they get paid when they get knocked out of the event.
Anyone who wants to run a tour should know it has been a well established tradition for you to pick up your cash or check as soon as you are put out of the event. If KT can come back and run things that way it would make life easier for everyone.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[ShootingArts]

you said things well

Chris,

Competitors in all of the individual sports have the same problem. They are extremely independent and far more focused on themselves and their needs than the group's. These traits seem to be necessary to be successful as a competitor but they don't bode well for any chance of presenting a unified front. When it comes to rules and organization I have said for decades that the competitors are their own worst enemies.

For a sanctioning body or tour to succeed the sanctioning body needs strength, management skills, and integrity to provide the framework for competition. The IPT had the strength, but it lacked management skills and integrity.

Hu

When I think of the term "pro pool player I usually think of someone who had enough talent to do all kinds of things in life, but chose to spend enough time knocking balls around to become great at a game instead of acheiving higher goals. That reminds me of myself and yet I had not the skill to be a pro. But I know many pros and most are like me they are self employed. They get along better in life being self employed. Do you really expect a large group of self employed people who are used to being their own boss to get along good enough to all be in unity? Now throw the champion player ego in there on top of used to being the boss and you have no chance for a single voice. They can appoint someone and say you handle it and we will support you, but we will never all want all the same things, but we do all want the sport to succeed. That is why they backed Mackey. That is why they backed Charlie. That is why they backed KT. The average pro that I have talked to does not want to be told what to do and so on. They just want to show up and play pool and hopefully win some cash and they could care a less who puts on the event as long as is it is run fairly and they get paid when they get knocked out of the event.
Anyone who wants to run a tour should know it has been a well established tradition for you to pick up your cash or check as soon as you are put out of the event. If KT can come back and run things that way it would make life easier for everyone.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[JAM]

...[ But I know many pros and most are like me they are self employed. They get along better in life being self employed. Do you really expect a large group of self employed people who are used to being their own boss to get along good enough to all be in unity? Now throw the champion player ego in there on top of used to being the boss and you have no chance for a single voice.

Very well said, and I agree!

Pool in the States has been dealt a double whammy in that not only is it on the bottom rung of the sports ladder, but the crtics that exist within the American pool culture do not recognize the talent of the American pro pool players. Rather, they think and believe they are the scum of the earth.

It is very telling when you see the majority of American countrymen and -women pulling for players from another country to win, as an example, in a competitive event here on our soil.

Having said that, if Kevin Trudeau decides to move forward with the IPT, his best bet would be to take the IPT tour overseas, maybe to the Philippines, where pool players, no matter what color, creed, or nationality, are welcomed and recognized for their championship qualities.

A rooster crows only when he sees the light. Put him in the dark and he'll never crow.

JAM

 

[macguy]

Very well said, and I agree!


A rooster crows only when he sees the light. Put him in the dark and he'll never crow.

JAM

A rooster can be easily fooled into crowing by the one who controls the light. The rooster doesn't know the difference between real light and illusion.

 

[Island Drive]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cueman
...[ But I know many pros and most are like me they are self employed. They get along better in life being self employed. Do you really expect a large group of self employed people who are used to being their own boss to get along good enough to all be in unity? Now throw the champion player ego in there on top of used to being the boss and you have no chance for a single voice.

Yes I think unity is 'real', the crying about lack of dollars and lack of a tour shows us the players "want" something that will showcase their talents.
All pro golfers, tennis players etc. are self employed, why would pool player egos be any different?
If you look at the structure of each pro sports tour, their rules (fines $$) and the dollars to be made babysit those EGOS. When you start losing control of the playeres/game you also lose your audience.

 

[JAM]

A rooster can be easily fooled into crowing by the one who controls the light. The rooster doesn't know the difference between real light and illusion.

In the words of world champion boxer, Mohammed Ali, to elaborate: "A rooster crows only when he sees the light. Put him in the dark, and he'll never crow. I have seen the light, and I'm crowing."

Another Ali quote: Champions aren't made in gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill.

A quote from JAM: Some roosters always see the light, and others never will. Those who refuse to see it are destined to always eat crow.

JAM

 

[sde]

In the words of world champion boxer, Mohammed Ali, to elaborate: "A rooster crows only when he sees the light. Put him in the dark, and he'll never crow. I have seen the light, and I'm crowing."

Another Ali quote: Champions aren't made in gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill.

A quote from JAM: Some roosters always see the light, and others never will. Those who refuse to see it are destined to always eat crow.

JAM

I am assuming that you have NOT been hit in the head as many times as Ali and for that and other reasons I like your quote better.

Steve

 

[sjm]

You are a professional in some line of work, and you do a job for a wealthy businessman. You don't get paid when the bill comes due, and nearly a half year later, you have only been paid 33% of the tab due. Doesn't much matter what your line of work is...........are you really going to do another job for this businessman before getting paid for the first one? If you are, don't act surprised if you get burned again.

 

[MFB]

You are a professional in some line of work, and you do a job for a wealthy businessman. You don't get paid when the bill comes due, and nearly a half year later, you have only been paid 33% of the tab due. Doesn't much matter what your line of work is...........are you really going to do another job for this businessman before getting paid for the first one? If you are, don't act surprised if you get burned again.

I would if I really needed the work.

Do you see the parallel?

 

[Jimk]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cueman
...[ But I know many pros and most are like me they are self employed. They get along better in life being self employed. Do you really expect a large group of self employed people who are used to being their own boss to get along good enough to all be in unity? Now throw the champion player ego in there on top of used to being the boss and you have no chance for a single voice.

Yes I think unity is 'real', the crying about lack of dollars and lack of a tour shows us the players "want" something that will showcase their talents.
All pro golfers, tennis players etc. are self employed, why would pool player egos be any different?
If you look at the structure of each pro sports tour, their rules (fines $$) and the dollars to be made babysit those EGOS. When you start losing control of the playeres/game you also lose your audience.

Pro tennis and golf have professional organizations. There is no sanctioning body for pool. All attempts to organize the men have failed. Why? IMO the players are unwilling to give up the advantage. If you want to pump a gold mine or some other get rich quick scheme, throw it at a pool player. It is a society all to it's own. We can look in from the balcony, but can't really be a part of it. The players need to see that there is a world outside of pool and without that world they will always be a fringe sport. How many pool players voted in the last election? Bought boxes of Girl Scout cookies? Donated time or money to a local charity?