Playing the Devil's Advocate for Barry Behrman

ShortBusRuss

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
So... as I understand it, Barry uses the increase in business during Open week at Q-Master's to add the money to the U.S. Open, right?

I don't really think that he makes much money off the U.S. Open, if at all...

Obviously, the guy loves pool, even if he might not be the most competent at handling money. I would imagine he might be able to get a short term loan every year to make sure the added money is there in advance, and then he needs to take his normal business actions to recoup the money during Open week. If Q-Master's is successful, he ought to be able to get that loan with relatively little trouble. If he pays it back on time, then should not be a problem in successive years going forward.

But, to call a spade a spade.. A lot of you are petitioning for Barry to give up the U.S. Open to someone else...

I honestly believe he pours every bit of the profit he makes during the week of the Open back into the prize fund, and probably some additional. So, if it is true that Barry is operating the Open at a loss every year... Who on earth would take it over?

Do you guys know anyone else with a business that is just willing to add $50,000-$100,000 into the prize fund out of their own pocket?

Understand this: The Derby City Classic has economies of scale because the tournament is run by the table manufacturer, so they will at the very minimum break even on the labor/materials costs of the tables, and they already have warehouse space to store the tournament tables if they can't sell them immediately after the tourney... And since they are Diamonds, even tournament used, they WILL sell eventually.

Barry has to fade whatever costs are involved with getting the tables to the Open, as I am sure Greg from Diamond rightly is not going to provide them for free. If people buy them after the tournament, then that is great, but if not, that's probably a fairly big nut to fade, even if he is somehow just renting the tables for the week.

Yes, Barry is bad at organizing, and even worse at money management. In the end, though.. He is a guy holding the tournament year in and year out, and most likely losing money on it, so it is a labor of love for him.

If you guys know someone else willing to lose money on the Open, GUARANTEED, but is still willing to take it on... Well, we're listening.

Short Bus Russ
 
Who in their right mind give someone with his track record a loan? The loan application should be interesting.
Prison
Parole violation drugs
Possession

I guess it could happen in this society.
 
Good Points, But

ShortBusRuss said:
So... as I understand it, Barry uses the increase in business during Open week at Q-Master's to add the money to the U.S. Open, right?

I don't really think that he makes much money off the U.S. Open, if at all...

Obviously, the guy loves pool, even if he might not be the most competent at handling money. I would imagine he might be able to get a short term loan every year to make sure the added money is there in advance, and then he needs to take his normal business actions to recoup the money during Open week. If Q-Master's is successful, he ought to be able to get that loan with relatively little trouble. If he pays it back on time, then should not be a problem in successive years going forward.

But, to call a spade a spade.. A lot of you are petitioning for Barry to give up the U.S. Open to someone else...

I honestly believe he pours every bit of the profit he makes during the week of the Open back into the prize fund, and probably some additional. So, if it is true that Barry is operating the Open at a loss every year... Who on earth would take it over?

Do you guys know anyone else with a business that is just willing to add $50,000-$100,000 into the prize fund out of their own pocket?

Understand this: The Derby City Classic has economies of scale because the tournament is run by the table manufacturer, so they will at the very minimum break even on the labor/materials costs of the tables, and they already have warehouse space to store the tournament tables if they can't sell them immediately after the tourney... And since they are Diamonds, even tournament used, they WILL sell eventually.

Barry has to fade whatever costs are involved with getting the tables to the Open, as I am sure Greg from Diamond rightly is not going to provide them for free. If people buy them after the tournament, then that is great, but if not, that's probably a fairly big nut to fade, even if he is somehow just renting the tables for the week.

Yes, Barry is bad at organizing, and even worse at money management. In the end, though.. He is a guy holding the tournament year in and year out, and most likely losing money on it, so it is a labor of love for him.

If you guys know someone else willing to lose money on the Open, GUARANTEED, but is still willing to take it on... Well, we're listening.

Short Bus Russ
Click to expand...

Russ... Bottom line is you have to make sure the stars of the show are paid. From what I have read he fails to fully understand that part of the event.

I am sure that a lot of the players really could use their winnings immediately so they can go on to the next tournament.

It really is all about economics.

1. Tournament fees
2. Food, gas, lodging for the week.
3. Gambling ( I know this is not Barrys concern)
4. Giving his/her backer a cut of the winnings.
As far as finding someone else to run the U.S. Open, I am sure there are a few people who may be willing to take on the task. Success may be down the road for those who do. Or maybe not. Barry "may" have the best intentions for Pool but he just seems to always have problems meeting his obligations on time.

Don
 
Out of his own pocket ..... So there are no sponsors for the US Open? No money from Accu-Stats.
 
I am just guessing the players would accept less added money and still play as long as they could actually get paid the day they're beat. It's still an important tournament, no matter what the payouts are.
 
ShortBusRuss said:
So... as I understand it, Barry uses the increase in business during Open week at Q-Master's to add the money to the U.S. Open, right?

I don't really think that he makes much money off the U.S. Open, if at all...

Obviously, the guy loves pool, even if he might not be the most competent at handling money. I would imagine he might be able to get a short term loan every year to make sure the added money is there in advance, and then he needs to take his normal business actions to recoup the money during Open week. If Q-Master's is successful, he ought to be able to get that loan with relatively little trouble. If he pays it back on time, then should not be a problem in successive years going forward.

But, to call a spade a spade.. A lot of you are petitioning for Barry to give up the U.S. Open to someone else...

I honestly believe he pours every bit of the profit he makes during the week of the Open back into the prize fund, and probably some additional. So, if it is true that Barry is operating the Open at a loss every year... Who on earth would take it over?

Do you guys know anyone else with a business that is just willing to add $50,000-$100,000 into the prize fund out of their own pocket?

Understand this: The Derby City Classic has economies of scale because the tournament is run by the table manufacturer, so they will at the very minimum break even on the labor/materials costs of the tables, and they already have warehouse space to store the tournament tables if they can't sell them immediately after the tourney... And since they are Diamonds, even tournament used, they WILL sell eventually.

Barry has to fade whatever costs are involved with getting the tables to the Open, as I am sure Greg from Diamond rightly is not going to provide them for free. If people buy them after the tournament, then that is great, but if not, that's probably a fairly big nut to fade, even if he is somehow just renting the tables for the week.

Yes, Barry is bad at organizing, and even worse at money management. In the end, though.. He is a guy holding the tournament year in and year out, and most likely losing money on it, so it is a labor of love for him.

If you guys know someone else willing to lose money on the Open, GUARANTEED, but is still willing to take it on... Well, we're listening.

Short Bus Russ
Click to expand...

You are dead wrong, sorry. The man is smarter than you and me, all players know it too, true not the low level players, but top level knows how and where the money comes from; therefore, they come to it every year without any hesitation.
 
naji said:
You are dead wrong, sorry. The man is smarter than you and me, all players know it too, true not the low level players, but top level knows how and where the money comes from; therefore, they come to it every year without any hesitation.
Click to expand...


Can you be more specific ?
 
ShortBusRuss said:
So... as I understand it, Barry uses the increase in business during Open week at Q-Master's to add the money to the U.S. Open, right?

I don't really think that he makes much money off the U.S. Open, if at all...

Obviously, the guy loves pool, even if he might not be the most competent at handling money. I would imagine he might be able to get a short term loan every year to make sure the added money is there in advance, and then he needs to take his normal business actions to recoup the money during Open week. If Q-Master's is successful, he ought to be able to get that loan with relatively little trouble. If he pays it back on time, then should not be a problem in successive years going forward.

But, to call a spade a spade.. A lot of you are petitioning for Barry to give up the U.S. Open to someone else...

I honestly believe he pours every bit of the profit he makes during the week of the Open back into the prize fund, and probably some additional. So, if it is true that Barry is operating the Open at a loss every year... Who on earth would take it over?

Do you guys know anyone else with a business that is just willing to add $50,000-$100,000 into the prize fund out of their own pocket?

Understand this: The Derby City Classic has economies of scale because the tournament is run by the table manufacturer, so they will at the very minimum break even on the labor/materials costs of the tables, and they already have warehouse space to store the tournament tables if they can't sell them immediately after the tourney... And since they are Diamonds, even tournament used, they WILL sell eventually.

Barry has to fade whatever costs are involved with getting the tables to the Open, as I am sure Greg from Diamond rightly is not going to provide them for free. If people buy them after the tournament, then that is great, but if not, that's probably a fairly big nut to fade, even if he is somehow just renting the tables for the week.

Yes, Barry is bad at organizing, and even worse at money management. In the end, though.. He is a guy holding the tournament year in and year out, and most likely losing money on it, so it is a labor of love for him.

If you guys know someone else willing to lose money on the Open, GUARANTEED, but is still willing to take it on... Well, we're listening.

Short Bus Russ
Click to expand...

Every year we hear the same stories. I agree with a lot of what you said but if this is an annual problem why not simply reduce the promised payouts to match reality? Seems like a viable and simple solution to me.

The only way another promoter could possibly do better is if they could somehow convince a tv network to cover it and put some cash into the prize fund but that is unlikely.
 
HelloBaby- said:
Can you be more specific ?
Click to expand...


This is not the 1st US open, it is the 39th US open, every year it gets sponsored, streamed, with the same people for the last 39 years; and pretty much same players, if these players never got paid in the past, they will not show up, or would they?
 
Payouts were roughly $166,000 and entry fees were about 102,000. (He needs to raise $64,000 to pay the players and break even.)

Barry gets money from sponsors, exhibitors and increased revenue from the action in his room during the event (there may be other sources, and I hope there are not listed here).

He has expenses related to running the tournament such as the renting the tables, the room, staff and advertising (and again this only a partial list).

I've never met Barry, and don't know enough about the guy, but if you think it's easy to make this event happen then maybe you contact Barry about a partnership or joint venture. I'm a businessman that knows how hard it is to make a profit. Anyone devoting the time and effort that Barry has put into this for 39 years deserves to make a profit. I don't think it's happening.

Yes, Barry has had problems with timely payments and he needs to adjust somewhere or stop trying. All of the complaining and Barry bashing has taken away from thrill of the event for me.
 
LNCPA said:
Payouts were roughly $166,000 and entry fees were about 102,000. (He needs to raise $64,000 to pay the players and break even.)

Barry gets money from sponsors, exhibitors and increased revenue from the action in his room during the event (there may be other sources, and I hope there are not listed here).

He has expenses related to running the tournament such as the renting the tables, the room, staff and advertising (and again this only a partial list).

I've never met Barry, and don't know enough about the guy, but if you think it's easy to make this event happen then maybe you contact Barry about a partnership or joint venture. I'm a businessman that knows how hard it is to make a profit. Anyone devoting the time and effort that Barry has put into this for 39 years deserves to make a profit. I don't think it's happening.

Yes, Barry has had problems with timely payments and he needs to adjust somewhere or stop trying. All of the complaining and Barry bashing has taken away from thrill of the event for me.
Click to expand...
Well, the US open is not a surprise every year. He has a whole year to get prepared and that includes getting together the added money. This after the fact stuff and excuses is bull just sh!t.

I don't know Barry either but the little dealings I had with him in his pool room years ago he was a POS. A lier who could not be trusted as far as you could throw the little troll. Just my opinion of course.
 
macguy said:
Well, the US open is not a surprise every year. He has a whole year to get prepared and that includes getting together the added money. This after the fact stuff and excuses is bull just sh!t.

I don't know Barry either but the little dealings I had with him in his pool room years ago he was a POS. A lier who could not be trusted as far as you could throw the little troll. Just my opinion of course.
Click to expand...

Macgy, last time i check, it is pool we are talking about ! it is not your high school football game?
 
Oops!

Damn Russ, you are fixing to get thrown under the bus!

Are you hinting that promoters deserve a profit too? How silly is that!

Hu
 
Didn't the Ultimate 10-ball promoter throw in the towel? He seemed like a pretty asute businessman with a decent bankroll. Astute enough to know when he's backed a losing proposition and it's time to cut his losses.

There's no money in professional pool because there's no audience for it, i.e. no sponsorship.

Bottom line is that it takes someone crazy/stupid to put on a tournament. BB fits that description...take the good with the bad.

IMHO BB just needs to stop promising more than he can deliver. Tell the players that everyone will be paid on the spot, except the top 4 players will get paid within 30 days since he needs that time to collect his credit card receipts, etc.
 
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I don't pretend to know the inside details about the Open but there are more costs involved with promoting the event than just the added money. I don't know how long Barry can continue to promote the event. Someone will have to take it over and that someone will have to be a kind benefactor with deep pockets to keep this event alive and kicking. Ladies and gentlemen, that's what we will have to look forward to in that we no longer have the TV interest and crowds are too small to promote pool in the USA. But pool is alive and well elsewhere. So we do have that to look forward to.
 
End of story, Barry is sticking his neck, money and effort out, to put on a very popular pool event. We all should be thankful. The players not getting paid in a prompt fashion is their problem. Not a good thing, but not our business. Nobody holds a gun to their heads to make them play in the event. Apparently, the players feel winning or placing well and getting streaming exposure for their sponsor is worth the chance of slow pay, or no pay. It's business folks, that's how the world works. Be happy the event happens.
 
Didn't the US Open use to be played in his poolroom? Since he no longer has the audience to justify using a rented hall/hotel, why not just move it back to the poolroom? He might be able to turn a profit there.
 
lakeman77 said:
End of story, Barry is sticking his neck, money and effort out, to put on a very popular pool event. We all should be thankful. The players not getting paid in a prompt fashion is their problem. Not a good thing, but not our business. Nobody holds a gun to their heads to make them play in the event. Apparently, the players feel winning or placing well and getting streaming exposure for their sponsor is worth the chance of slow pay, or no pay. It's business folks, that's how the world works. Be happy the event happens.
Click to expand...

That "not our business" line is getting really old.

You may not care if this game goes to crap or is run by thieves, cons and bums, but some do.
 
us open tables

ShortBusRuss said:
So... as I understand it, Barry uses the increase in business during Open week at Q-Master's to add the money to the U.S. Open, right?

I don't really think that he makes much money off the U.S. Open, if at all...

Obviously, the guy loves pool, even if he might not be the most competent at handling money. I would imagine he might be able to get a short term loan every year to make sure the added money is there in advance, and then he needs to take his normal business actions to recoup the money during Open week. If Q-Master's is successful, he ought to be able to get that loan with relatively little trouble. If he pays it back on time, then should not be a problem in successive years going forward.

But, to call a spade a spade.. A lot of you are petitioning for Barry to give up the U.S. Open to someone else...

I honestly believe he pours every bit of the profit he makes during the week of the Open back into the prize fund, and probably some additional. So, if it is true that Barry is operating the Open at a loss every year... Who on earth would take it over?

Do you guys know anyone else with a business that is just willing to add $50,000-$100,000 into the prize fund out of their own pocket?

Understand this: The Derby City Classic has economies of scale because the tournament is run by the table manufacturer, so they will at the very minimum break even on the labor/materials costs of the tables, and they already have warehouse space to store the tournament tables if they can't sell them immediately after the tourney... And since they are Diamonds, even tournament used, they WILL sell eventually.

Barry has to fade whatever costs are involved with getting the tables to the Open, as I am sure Greg from Diamond rightly is not going to provide them for free. If people buy them after the tournament, then that is great, but if not, that's probably a fairly big nut to fade, even if he is somehow just renting the tables for the week.

Yes, Barry is bad at organizing, and even worse at money management. In the end, though.. He is a guy holding the tournament year in and year out, and most likely losing money on it, so it is a labor of love for him.

If you guys know someone else willing to lose money on the Open, GUARANTEED, but is still willing to take it on... Well, we're listening.

Short Bus Russ
Click to expand...

Russ, Diamond does provide tables for the US Open for free as well as provide money as a sponsor to Barry. Also we provide additional money working with Pat Fleming for TV coverage overseas. Diamond definitely sees value in doing its part to keep the long running event going. Diamond does not know Barry's total finances concerning the tournament, but realizes payment issues to players must be resolved. Greg/Diamond
 
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