playing with inside

[KRJ]

I was watching a video where Buddy was commentating on a match. He said if you asked a bunch of players what their favorite shot was he said(for right hand players) it would be low-right. For whatever reason outside of some kind just looks better to a lot of players.

yeah, Buddy knows a thing or two Buddy and Nick V were at the house a few years ago. The wife first thought, of great, more pool players

But, she liked them both, they were class acts. But she really liked Buddy because he was such a sweetheart :lovies:

 

[ChrisSjoblom]

So if we live in trees, eat bananas, forgo speech and wipe our ass with our hands we could use inside english better?

I can't say for sure if this is true, but in the distant past I knew some guys who lived something like that and they shot pretty damn sporty!

 

[garczar]

I can't say for sure if this is true, but in the distant past I knew some guys who lived something like that and they shot pretty damn sporty!

Niiiiiiice. That's funny.

 

[BC21]

Using inside and the shot looks like you are hitting the object ball to "full", so most folks over correct, and then shoot and now they've undercut the shot by a lot.

Using outside doesn't have that same problem. It's more perception than anything else. Sometime you just gotta trust you lined it up, and never correct once you are down on the shot. Easier said then done for most.

Exactly. You just have to realize that a thicker looking alignment on the shot is needed. It doesn't matter if it's physically no different than using outside. What matters is what it looks like and that you become comfortable and confident with that perception.

 

[BC21]

I can't say for sure if this is true, but in the distant past I knew some guys who lived something like that and they shot pretty damn sporty!

Lol. Yes, it does seem that many fine pool players look and live as if they're homeless.

 

[sixpack]

I play my position so that the majority of my shots will allow me to use inside.

I use inside more than I use outside.

I can do both.

Unless you are hitting a ball head on, center to center, the "inside" of the cue ball is ALWAYS the side of the cue ball that is touching the contact point on the object ball.

I am aiming the contact point on the "inside" of the cue ball to hit the contact point on the object ball that will send it in the direction I want it to go.

The "outside" of the cue ball NEVER touches the object ball.

The wording above may be "above" some peoples' heads, but anybody that knows how to play pool will know what I'm saying.

Aloha

I agree. I was messing around trying to learn CTE and found a really consistent way to make balls using inside. Any amount. It's way easier to aim than outside I think people just don't use it as much and don't spend the time to figure it out.

When you are using inside you are aiming roughly at the contact point with the edge of the cue and can adjust from there if needed. If you are using outside you are aiming at air half the time.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

Aiming is such an ethereal thing. It’s hurting my head trying to think about it. The way some people talk it seems like everyone has a concrete aim point they could point a laser at and say “I’m aiming the side of my shaft right there”

I could maybe point a laser at the point I’m focusing on but I couldn’t tell you what it corresponds to. It’s just where I know I have to focus if the cb is here and ob there. I sometimes wonder if everyone else is doing the same thing and just pretending like they use a system...ne1?

Either way I’m glad I HASTB before I found this place else wise I might have gotten all up in my head and never made nothin

 

[DecentShot]

After reading this thread no wonder I freak everybody the f out. Its ALL about inside english. TOI all day. Would you like the ball to naturally fall into the part of the pocket that actually exists for you? You need TOI. It just gives you so many more options.

 

[garczar]

After reading this thread no wonder I freak everybody the f out. Its ALL about inside english. TOI all day. Would you like the ball to naturally fall into the part of the pocket that actually exists for you? You need TOI. It just gives you so many more options.

TOI is not the same thing. Using inside spin is totally different than CJ's TOI. TOI just uses a tiny inside offset to deflect ob into pocket. Using inside spin to change ob return off a rail is altogether different.

 

[DecentShot]

TOI is not the same thing. Using inside spin is totally different than CJ's TOI. TOI just uses a tiny inside offset to deflect ob into pocket. Using inside spin to change ob return off a rail is altogether different.

Lol, ooook, well I use a little when I need to, and a lot when I need to. I guess we'll call a little TOI and a little more spin

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Would you like the ball to naturally fall into the part of the pocket that actually exists for you? You need TOI.

Or a touch of outside, or a lot of either, or...

One kind of tip placement isn't generally more versatile or effective than another (no matter what CJ's selling) - you "need" whatever the shot (usually the next shot) calls for, and favoring one kind or another just limits you.

pj
chgo

 

[sixpack]

TOI is not the same thing. Using inside spin is totally different than CJ's TOI. TOI just uses a tiny inside offset to deflect ob into pocket. Using inside spin to change ob return off a rail is altogether different.

The spin off the rail thing is definitely a part of CJ's TOI. Part of the system is getting a consistent kill off the rail. Kind of like when Hogan became determined to never hook again. Then he always could play a slice.

btw TOI is a very important aiming system for everyone to master. Whether you would use it in competition or not it's a really important concept.

 

[Straightpool_99]

I play my position so that the majority of my shots will allow me to use inside.

I use inside more than I use outside.

I can do both.

Unless you are hitting a ball head on, center to center, the "inside" of the cue ball is ALWAYS the side of the cue ball that is touching the contact point on the object ball.

I am aiming the contact point on the "inside" of the cue ball to hit the contact point on the object ball that will send it in the direction I want it to go.

The "outside" of the cue ball NEVER touches the object ball.

The wording above may be "above" some peoples' heads, but anybody that knows how to play pool will know what I'm saying.

Aloha

This is my philosophy, as well. I like to use inside on many of my shots. At one time, I thought inside was more difficult, and I avoided using it. Then, I started practising more and more and I found it became even easier than outside. It often lets you play one rail position in cases where you'd need a lot more travel with only vertical center and outside. It lets you "kill" the cueball, so that it comes dead off the rail. The added benefit of inside is that the deflection lets you cut the ball more than the aim would suggest. I always prefer to aim fuller at the ball, whenever possible.

 

[DecentShot]

Or a touch of outside, or a lot of either, or...

One kind of tip placement isn't generally more versatile or effective than another (no matter what CJ's selling) - you "need" whatever the shot (usually the next shot) calls for, and favoring one kind or another just limits you.

pj
chgo

Yes, I am doing something different from shot to shot anyway, I am referring to situations where there is an option for preference.

 

[DecentShot]

The spin off the rail thing is definitely a part of CJ's TOI. Part of the system is getting a consistent kill off the rail. Kind of like when Hogan became determined to never hook again. Then he always could play a slice.

btw TOI is a very important aiming system for everyone to master. Whether you would use it in competition or not it's a really important concept.

Correct in every way.

 

[Fatboy]

lately I've had a few steep cuts with inside miss
realized I'm not very well-versed hitting with inside in general
except on a few shots (ironically, steep cuts is one)
so I decided to play a few racks using inside, exclusively
to my surprise, I shot pretty ok
even on shots where using inside seemed counter-intuitive
I potted well, and found a way to get position most of time anyway
thinking about contact points, angles and speed differently was fun
let the games continue

It’s always been much much harder for me. I’ve been playing almost 40 years. 35 have been seriously. And it’s gotten easier but still that’s where the mistakes show up for me more than anywhere else.

Best
Fatboy

 

[Fatboy]

The spin off the rail thing is definitely a part of CJ's TOI. Part of the system is getting a consistent kill off the rail. Kind of like when Hogan became determined to never hook again. Then he always could play a slice.

btw TOI is a very important aiming system for everyone to master. Whether you would use it in competition or not it's a really important concept.

This is a excellent post. 10/10

CJ showed me some stuff in London in the practice room at MCup, wish I’d have had that lesson in 85 when I started playing full time. I’d be a much better player today. Better late than never. CJ has it figured out.

Best
Fatboy

 

[HawaiianEye]

The spin off the rail thing is definitely a part of CJ's TOI. Part of the system is getting a consistent kill off the rail. Kind of like when Hogan became determined to never hook again. Then he always could play a slice.

btw TOI is a very important aiming system for everyone to master. Whether you would use it in competition or not it's a really important concept.

One of the biggest benefits is being able to be bring the cue ball off the object ball with little, to no, spin. That allows you to use angles off the rails that are more "natural" and predictable. Bringing the cue ball off the rail with no spin also helps you avoid "over spinning" the cue ball which causes it sometimes to get away from you.

Playing with TOI requires you to hit the shot "firmer" than most people who are "spinners" do. You have to let your stroke "move" the cue ball around the table rather than the "spin".

Once you have gotten used to (I'll avoid the word "master" because few people have ever "mastered" anything in pool) "stroking" the cue ball around the table with "less" spin, you will find yourself making "less" positional errors caused by a "loose" cue ball.

TOI is basically "center ball" with the ability to apply the "brakes" to the cue ball to keep it from "over spinning".

 

[RiverCity]

TOI is basically "center ball" with the ability to apply the "brakes" to the cue ball to keep it from "over spinning".

The crowd I use to hang around referred to it as a "dead ball", versus a 'working (spinning) ball'.

It was a popular concept when the world changed over to Simonis, and guys didnt want to let off their strokes to move whitey.

Nowadays, you see more bunt strokes than running a dead ball around the table.

 

[HawaiianEye]

The crowd I use to hang around referred to it as a "dead ball", versus a 'working (spinning) ball'.

It was a popular concept when the world changed over to Simonis, and guys didnt want to let off their strokes to move whitey.

Nowadays, you see more bunt strokes than running a dead ball around the table.

I call it "dead ball", too, but lots of newbies aren't familiar with that term.

I also call it "coming off the rail FLAT" because the cue ball isn't spinning off the rail.

I can spin with the best of "spinners", but I prefer staying "flat" because it's more predictable.