Playing with someone else's money, where do you stand?

inside_english

inside_english

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I choke like a beeyotch!

I have been "sent in" a total of three times in my life. Well, to be more accurate, I have agreed to be sent in (have had more offers) three times...and each time I dogged it left, right and center! The first two times I was in my 20s...and the last time I was in my mid-30s. I mention the age to show that the concept of being sent in is the challenge for me, not my age or experience.

Why?

Because I feel like a maggot losing someone else's money..regardless of how loaded they are!

I was recently asked to gamble and I told the guy I did not bring cash but would be more than willing to play him that very weekend. He couldn't understand why I could not just "get somebody to send me in" that night.
I explained I have a hard time playing on someone else's dime...to which he indignantly replied, "You should play better in those situations...I do!"

Of course at least three or four people agreed with him, but another player explained to me he has the same problem I do, we have a hard time losing other people's money, which is why we refuse to do it.

Does this have to do with integrity? I ask because some of the people who claim to not have a problem with this have an attitude of not caring if they lose...not their money so it's not their problem.

I obviously feel differently.

I recently saw FatBoy send Shane in vs. Chohan at this year's US Open for some 1P action. After two or three games Fatboy quit because he felt Shane had little chance. I think they were playing for $500/game. Could be wrong, I was half asleep in the bleachers. If that were me losing Fatboy's money I probably would have soiled myself!

If someone agrees to send me in, part of me thinks they:

a) like me
b) is confident of the outcome in our favor
c) trusts me on some level to not blow it

For (a), I would feel really bad letting them down
For (b), I would add pressure to myself
For (c), Would add even more pressure!

I have had guys pull me aside and say "Hey look, anytime so-and-so wants to match up just let me know and I am guaranteed for half!"

Then I feel bad because when that time comes I won't want to turn them down, then if I win they may think I cheated them on some "guaranteed" cash!

My head hurts now....:)

So there's my stand on being "staked".

Looking forward to feedback...except the ones that tell me this has already been discussed. I am not going to search for the older threads so don't waste your time.
 
inside_english said:
I choke like a beeyotch!

I have been "sent in" a total of three times in my life. Well, to be more accurate, I have agreed to be sent in (have had more offers) three times...and each time I dogged it left, right and center! The first two times I was in my 20s...and the last time I was in my mid-30s. I mention the age to show that the concept of being sent in is the challenge for me, not my age or experience.

Why?

Because I feel like a maggot losing someone else's money..regardless of how loaded they are!

I was recently asked to gamble and I told the guy I did not bring cash but would be more than willing to play him that very weekend. He couldn't understand why I could not just "get somebody to send me in" that night.
I explained I have a hard time playing on someone else's dime...to which he indignantly replied, "You should play better in those situations...I do!"

Of course at least three or four people agreed with him, but another player explained to me he has the same problem I do, we have a hard time losing other people's money, which is why we refuse to do it.

Does this have to do with integrity? I ask because some of the people who claim to not have a problem with this have an attitude of not caring if they lose...not their money so it's not their problem.

I obviously feel differently.

I recently saw FatBoy send Shane in vs. Chohan at this year's US Open for some 1P action. After two or three games Fatboy quit because he felt Shane had little chance. I think they were playing for $500/game. Could be wrong, I was half asleep in the bleachers. If that were me losing Fatboy's money I probably would have soiled myself!

If someone agrees to send me in, part of me thinks they:

a) like me
b) is confident of the outcome in our favor
c) trusts me on some level to not blow it

For (a), I would feel really bad letting them down
For (b), I would add pressure to myself
For (c), Would add even more pressure!

I have had guys pull me aside and say "Hey look, anytime so-and-so wants to match up just let me know and I am guaranteed for half!"

Then I feel bad because when that time comes I won't want to turn them down, then if I win they may think I cheated them on some "guaranteed" cash!

My head hurts now....:)

So there's my stand on being "staked".

Looking forward to feedback...except the ones that tell me this has already been discussed. I am not going to search for the older threads so don't waste your time.
Click to expand...
Stand good for your end and treat the game like its your money, which it is!
 
first time i was sent in for $500, I never played so bad in my life, my gosh it was the most embarassing thing ever. that was then 1986.

other than that night I awalys did fine on OPM, I dont think about the bet when I play, the deal is done so just play pool.
 
I've had a couple times were I someone else playing on my dime, and everytime, they seemed to have the worst nite of thier life lol.

One guy was a AA player and we'd goto tournaments and I'd pay his way, cuz as you know most good pool players dont have any money lol. And he'd get right to final match before getting in the money and just go brain dead.

Yet the one time he does goto a tourny without me, he wins or takes second.

I personally hate playing on someone else's dime, cuz I dont think of it as my money when playing, so i dont concentrate as hard. Now if I am going half with someone I seem to play my best.
 
The first time and only time I was ever staked was the 2nd week I came down to Florida in 1980. A friend that I had just met in the billiard room of the complex I was renting an apt at had been taking me around Tampa and StPete to show me where the action bars were, but he never staked me This weekend he had a friend (Jerry) visiting him from Detroit. Spike, (my friend) takes us to some bucket of blood on Nebraska Ave in Tampa.

I hook up with this guy they called the "The Hand".
We started out playing for $20 races to 3 in 8-ball. With in the hour we were playing for $50 a game 8-ball. I was using my own money, but I was aware of the side betting that Jerry and Spike were taking on me. After about three more hours I was up about $700 and we were now playing 8-ball for $100 a game.

A few hours later I was only up $600. This guy was no quiter. I had been drinking the whole time we were playing. He asked to play races to 5 for $500 a piece. I said no, I'd play for $200 race to 5. He agreed to it, but not too happy about the amount. I'd be damed if I was going to let this guy win the money he lost in 5 hours of very, very close games in one swoop. The name is Tucker, not sucker.

What I didn't know was this guy Jerry from Detroit was betting "The Hand" $500 a race, and told him not to tell me he was betting that kind of money on me. End of story, I win over $2000 by closing time. When we got in the car and pulled away Jerry hands me $2000 more. He had won over $6000 off "The Hand" and other people he was side betting in the bar.

He said he didn't want me to know he was STAKING me, that he didn't know how I'd play for that kind of money. I don't consider it being staked, I considered it getting a nice big fat jelly roll. But hey, whatever he wants to call it it was sweet. Johnnyt
 
Sweet

Johnnyt said:
The first time and only time I was ever staked was the 2nd week I came down to Florida in 1980. A friend that I had just met in the billiard room of the complex I was renting an apt at had been taking me around Tampa and StPete to show me where the action bars were, but he never staked me This weekend he had a friend (Jerry) visiting him from Detroit. Spike, (my friend) takes us to some bucket of blood on Nebraska Ave in Tampa.

I hook up with this guy they called the "The Hand".
We started out playing for $20 races to 3 in 8-ball. With in the hour we were playing for $50 a game 8-ball. I was using my own money, but I was aware of the side betting that Jerry and Spike were taking on me. After about three more hours I was up about $700 and we were now playing 8-ball for $100 a game.

A few hours later I was only up $600. This guy was no quiter. I had been drinking the whole time we were playing. He asked to play races to 5 for $500 a piece. I said no, I'd play for $200 race to 5. He agreed to it, but not too happy about the amount. I'd be damed if I was going to let this guy win the money he lost in 5 hours of very, very close games in one swoop. The name is Tucker, not sucker.

What I didn't know was this guy Jerry from Detroit was betting "The Hand" $500 a race, and told him not to tell me he was betting that kind of money on me. End of story, I win over $2000 by closing time. When we got in the car and pulled away Jerry hands me $2000 more. He had won over $6000 off "The Hand" and other people he was side betting in the bar.

He said he didn't want me to know he was STAKING me, that he didn't know how I'd play for that kind of money. I don't consider it being staked, I considered it getting a nice big fat jelly roll. But hey, whatever he wants to call it it was sweet. Johnnyt
Click to expand...


Wow Johnnyt, that was Sweet!...like it when that happens!


David Harcrow
 
Having people bet on you or stake you is a totally different experience, even for seasoned gamblers. It puts a different kind of pressure on you. Some players just are not cut out for this at all.

On the other hand, some players excel when being staked.

I don't think it matters much which category you fall in, as long as you know where you stand. And the original poster obviously knows where he stands. So just don't let anyone stake you again.
 
Also,

When side betting on a game with another sweater, its often advantageous to keep it from the players. Don't let them know you bet at all. This will prevent them from feeling the pressure. Obviously I'm not talking about big games where everyone is surrounding the table and screaming side bets. But more of your local action with the regulars.

The OPPOSITE thing you can do, is make a side bet ON the player you want to lose. This only works if you know the player is affected by the side betting pressure. For example you could be silent partners with player B, and bet ON player A for a small amount. If player A is affected by the side betting pressure, your team has an edge.

Lots of strategies on the betting and psychological side of pool...
 
Someone else's $ VS my own $

inside english: I prefer to play on my own cash, as opposed to someone else's $money, because I tend to play to "safe' while own their $money to much, which causes me to play about a 1/2 to a ball under my true speed at times.

I hate to lose PERIOD!

If I'm own my own $money I'll take chances more often which in turn will (sometimes) allow me to "get a good jump' on someone, and in turn will allow me to keep my opponent out of stroke.

A 50/50 equation works out well with me and a stakehorse, then I play safe enough not to blow the match, due to shot selection, but go for some shots to put me on top of my game!

I like to give myself (10 games) a fair chance to win, but I'm not going to "chase the wagon down the hill", I know when to jump!

Thats how I operate!


David Harcrow
 
Who ever is backing you is responsible for their own actions. Talk to them prior to setting something up, most guys that back a player are decent gamblers and they have an understanding of the pressures that may be put on you. One thing that helps in developing a comfort zone in gambling is having a clean up player. Much of my gambling as I was developing as a player was done when I had a better player with me. So if I lost a set he would play and win it back. This allowed me to play confident and play my game. Find something that causes you to play confident if you honestly believe in your mind that you play your very best when you are playing on someone elses money then most likely you will play your best in that situation. The old road players are looking for guys that they can rattle. Focus on the things that make you play well and put the rest aside. I have beaten many players that play as good or better then I do, by uping the bet out of their comfort zone or maybe a crowd forms because of the match and they lose focus. You have to figure out what works for you the key is to focus on the game. As far as other peoples money goes they chose to gamble, you focus on the game and let them worry about the money. You are the player not the backer so play let them worry about the backing. When you overcome the various distractions such as money or whatever you will start notice all the different things that are effecting potential opponents and you can give yourself some advantages in how you set your matches up based on these observations. Say to your backer look I'm here to play pool you handle the money and sort me out in the end I don't need the added stress Then focus on pool and let him or them do what they do.
 
If you can't play pool for money on someone else money, how can you collect a paycheck from someone who's betting you can make them money? What is it that psychologically affects you more playing pool?

If you think having someone back you in pool is wrong/unethical, why is having a job different? In both cases you have someone who has money and thinks a skill that you have can make them money and they are willing to take a chance on you.

The person putting up the money always has a choice of who they hire and when they think it's a lost cause. Your job in either case, should you choose to accept it, is to do the best you can to make it work out well for you and your boss/backer.

But not all jobs are for all people. I don't usually play on other people's money, just because it's a hassle.

~rc
 
I can't do it. If they wanna put up side bets that is up to them. I'll play the same regardless, but I don't wanna hear anything if I lose. I remember telling someone about a stock I was buying. I bought first and they picked it up a lil later at a higher price and proceeded to complain to me how they weren't making any money on it after only a few weeks.
 
I always play better getting staked. First off, though, I have never, and would never, play a game on somebody else's that I wouldn't play on mine if I can. Just bad business. But that is why I can get staked again. Never understood these idiots that would rather dump somebody once, instead of having a potential stakehorse for life. I think for me personally, it makes me concentrate more, cause I damn sure don't want to lose anybody else'e stew. ;)
 
2rgrbn said:
Who ever is backing you is responsible for their own actions. Talk to them prior to setting something up, most guys that back a player are decent gamblers and they have an understanding of the pressures that may be put on you. One thing that helps in developing a comfort zone in gambling is having a clean up player. Much of my gambling as I was developing as a player was done when I had a better player with me. So if I lost a set he would play and win it back. This allowed me to play confident and play my game. Find something that causes you to play confident if you honestly believe in your mind that you play your very best when you are playing on someone elses money then most likely you will play your best in that situation. The old road players are looking for guys that they can rattle. Focus on the things that make you play well and put the rest aside. I have beaten many players that play as good or better then I do, by uping the bet out of their comfort zone or maybe a crowd forms because of the match and they lose focus. You have to figure out what works for you the key is to focus on the game. As far as other peoples money goes they chose to gamble, you focus on the game and let them worry about the money. You are the player not the backer so play let them worry about the backing. When you overcome the various distractions such as money or whatever you will start notice all the different things that are effecting potential opponents and you can give yourself some advantages in how you set your matches up based on these observations. Say to your backer look I'm here to play pool you handle the money and sort me out in the end I don't need the added stress Then focus on pool and let him or them do what they do.
Click to expand...

This was an excellent post. Along the lines of this post... There are in general many types of players, with the common categories listed below:

1. Those who play great with a backer, but not on their own
2. Those who play great on their own, but not with a backer
3. Those who play great with a small bet, but not a large one (comfort zone)
4. Those who play great with a large bet but not a small one (motivation)
5. Those who play great in tournamnets but not gambling
6. Those who play great in gambling but not tournaments.
7. Those who play great in practice but not any form of competition
8. Those who play great with a crowd, but not without one
9. Those who play great with no crowd, but bad when one forms
10. Those who can't play in a sharking environment
11. Those who simply don't get sharked

The thing that 2rgrbn's post made me think of is many players fall into one of these categories. But the most well rounded player, will not be affected by any of the above. He will be able to play his best under any of the above conditions. This is not common, but it does exist. And like 2rgrbn said, if you focus on playing the game, the other circumstances might become distant thoughts. I know its easier said than done, but this is probably the mindset all players should strive to have. That way they can play their best any place, any time, and any circumstance.
 
I guess I am the strange one, but I play better with other peoples money.

Maybe I feel like there is less to lose, so the tendency to get all tense and choke up doesn't show.


B
 
inside_english said:
I choke like a beeyotch!

I have been "sent in" a total of three times in my life. Well, to be more accurate, I have agreed to be sent in (have had more offers) three times...and each time I dogged it left, right and center! The first two times I was in my 20s...and the last time I was in my mid-30s. I mention the age to show that the concept of being sent in is the challenge for me, not my age or experience.

Why?

Because I feel like a maggot losing someone else's money..regardless of how loaded they are!

I was recently asked to gamble and I told the guy I did not bring cash but would be more than willing to play him that very weekend. He couldn't understand why I could not just "get somebody to send me in" that night.
I explained I have a hard time playing on someone else's dime...to which he indignantly replied, "You should play better in those situations...I do!"

Of course at least three or four people agreed with him, but another player explained to me he has the same problem I do, we have a hard time losing other people's money, which is why we refuse to do it.

Does this have to do with integrity? I ask because some of the people who claim to not have a problem with this have an attitude of not caring if they lose...not their money so it's not their problem.

I obviously feel differently.

I recently saw FatBoy send Shane in vs. Chohan at this year's US Open for some 1P action. After two or three games Fatboy quit because he felt Shane had little chance. I think they were playing for $500/game. Could be wrong, I was half asleep in the bleachers. If that were me losing Fatboy's money I probably would have soiled myself!

If someone agrees to send me in, part of me thinks they:

a) like me
b) is confident of the outcome in our favor
c) trusts me on some level to not blow it

For (a), I would feel really bad letting them down
For (b), I would add pressure to myself
For (c), Would add even more pressure!

I have had guys pull me aside and say "Hey look, anytime so-and-so wants to match up just let me know and I am guaranteed for half!"

Then I feel bad because when that time comes I won't want to turn them down, then if I win they may think I cheated them on some "guaranteed" cash!

My head hurts now....:)

So there's my stand on being "staked".

Looking forward to feedback...except the ones that tell me this has already been discussed. I am not going to search for the older threads so don't waste your time.
Click to expand...

it's only happened to me once. i was giving a weak player the 7 in a race to 7 for 20 or 40. all the sudden the house man and 2 other guys start woofing at the guy i'm playing. the next thing i know they're side betting 200. i got bad shape on a ball and lost.

anyway i play better on my own money. a buddy of mine says you should play on your own money anyway. "don't let 'em make a whore out of you!" that's what he says anyway
 
Another side of this to think about is playing against someone who is staked. I have done this 3 times, that I know of. I played with my own and knew a guy was getting staked. Nothing too big, $50 - $100/sets.

I took another approach. And knowing some people play different when it's not their money, I had even more confidence. I was using my own money to put food on the table. What were they losing?

I won all 3 of those matches, and by large margins. I probably could have made the matches closer and got more, but that is not me. I was happy winning $500 - $700 each time.
 
> I've had close friends back me before,and I never once liked it,even though I've made some nice scores a couple times. I played about the same on the table,but in my head I wasn't fluid like normal. I made decisions that turned out to be tentative,or just flat wrong. It's like I was protecting their money,rather than killing the other guy and taking his.

I'd also like to note that in the back of my head,I felt bad for not having the money to back myself.

I've heard people say it's a sign of weakness to NOT be able to play on someone else's dime. I say it's a sign of weakness to HAVE to play on someone else's,at least in my case. Tommy D.
 
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