Pocket Sizes Pros 4.25

[TrxR]

Another thing to consider is , as you titghten the pocket you effectively make the shelf shallower. I imagine the manufacturers use the same slate cut on all tables.

 

[garczar]

Another thing to consider is , as you titghten the pocket you effectively make the shelf shallower. I imagine the manufacturers use the same slate cut on all tables.

Pretty sure Diamond's are the deepest. Been told they have their slates cut to their specs. Not 100% on this tho.

 

[garczar]

I think you can get away with 4" pockets on a GC but not on Diamonds. You have to be able to "cheat" the pocket somewhat to consistently run out. What is not looked at is that you can't just close the pocket up with facings. Rather you have to re-cusion the rails so that only one set of facings are placed on the rail. Otherwise when you miss, you want the ball to have an opportunity to leave the pocket area not just sit there.

biggest problem with shimming is that you reduce both mouth and throat size at same rate. combined with the hardness of the shims this can make for a near un-playable table if you shim too much.

 

[straightline]

Another thing to consider is , as you titghten the pocket you effectively make the shelf shallower. I imagine the manufacturers use the same slate cut on all tables.

Still, unless you loosen the jaws, tightening the aperture will just increase the ball trap effect.

 

[TrxR]

Pretty sure Diamond's are the deepest. Been told they have their slates cut to their specs. Not 100% on this tho.

I imagine they do have them cut to their specs ,but they probably use the same cut regardless of pocket size.

 

[SEB]

Exactly, and that's my point. Posters on AZB keep citing pocket size as the determining factor of what the game is/was/should be, but the struggle is a lack of consistency in another variable that at this moment in time MR can't do anything about.

Diamond has their take on how a table should play, Rasson another. 4.25" on a Diamond seems good, but a bucket on a Rasson. 4" great on a Rasson, nightmare on Diamond. So currently we (MR) needs to use variable spec's based on equipment for sake of presenting a consistent playability for their tour. This is confusing for Joe SixPack, because they don't understand why and there's zero effort made to explain why. All the viewers/posters know is that MR "has played with the pockets again", and sometimes the pros suffer.

What I hope is MR builds enough clout to force the hand of manufacturers into building their equipment to "MR standard". Call it the "pro standard" if that sits better with you.

The Rassons at the recent Worlds is what I would prefer to watch. Great balance of playability and respect for the small target. What are the odds that Diamond would alter their manufacturing to match that performance...?

Yes!!! This!

You articulated what i was trying to get at in a much better way.

 

[Bavafongoul]

For the past 7 years, all I have regularly played is 9 ft. tables with Simonis Blue and 4.25” CP.
If I played 4” CP, I’d struggle but I’d play better than others that don’t enjoy 4 1/4” like myself.

When that’s what you consistently play pool with, pocket size basically become irrelevant. Any
shots you miss you can’t blame the pockets. You know why you missed. Your stroke betrayed you.

Suck it up…..refocus and start stroking the way you way you know you are capable of. Stop looking
for an excuse. If tighter pockets annoy you, relocate to a table, or pool hall, that offers bigger pockets.

When you start coming up with reasons for a frustrating performance, the first one should be perhaps
you aren’t in the right frame of mind to try competing against other pool players that are more focused.

The general public should play with 5” CP for sheer recreational pleasure. A pool hall should offer tighter
pockets on some of its tables and 4.5” CP should what’s used. Any smaller CP demands strong players.

 

[Cue Stick]

I like the challenge of tight pockets. We used to practice with regular-sized balls on a snooker table. But for competition, I think the pockets should be 4-1/2 inches.

 

[The_JV]

I like the challenge of tight pockets. We used to practice with regular-sized balls on a snooker table. But for competition, I think the pockets should be 4-1/2 inches.

No offense intended, but for the elite at 4.5, you may as well not even bother putting rails on the table. They would never miss...

 

[july9x]

So what size do you guys recommend for us, not pro level but not the ball bangers either.

I found 4.5" corner (and bigger for side) is too easy sometimes, we still miss like a ton, but I don't like the idea that you hit a shot with pocket speed and miss by 1 diamond, it still goes in...

so 4.25" for corner pockets should be the most balanced option right? what is the size for side pockets?

 

[Island Drive]

I'd do the same as Diamond does with their blue label 7'.

 

[ShootingArts]

So what size do you guys recommend for us, not pro level but not the ball bangers either.

I found 4.5" corner (and bigger for side) is too easy sometimes, we still miss like a ton, but I don't like the idea that you hit a shot with pocket speed and miss by 1 diamond, it still goes in...

so 4.25" for corner pockets should be the most balanced option right? what is the size for side pockets?

If you expect guests to want to play pool stick with 4.5 corner pockets. A quarter inch means a lot more when you get under four and a half inches than it does when you are around five inches.

Another suggestion, check pocket size at the local pool halls and bars. Matching the average tables around you is never a bad idea.

Hu

 

[sjm]

If you expect guests to want to play pool stick with 4.5 corner pockets. A quarter inch means a lot more when you get under four and a half inches than it does when you are around five inches.

Another suggestion, check pocket size at the local pool halls and bars. Matching the average tables around you is never a bad idea.

Hu

On nine-foot tables, I'd go even looser for the bangers, 4 3/4" or even 5". If the Fargo 500 players can't run some balls, they'll go back to the bar tables, where they can.

 

[muskyed]

Pretty sure Diamond's are the deepest. Been told they have their slates cut to their specs. Not 100% on this tho.

I'm not so sure on this also. I say this because when they set up my 8' professional, there was screw holes out in the middle of the slate that served no purpose, and had to be filled in. If they were having the slates made specifically for them, there would be no need for the screw holes. There slates must also be used for other tables that have a need to be screwed down in the middle. All this doesn't necessarily mean some other table has deep shelves also as there rails and playing dimensions could be slightly different.

 

[mikemosconi]

A level Diamond table with new Simonis, perfect lighting, new quality balls and controlled climate conditions that has 4 1/2 corner pockets will play very different than a Diamond in a room that is neglected with worn cloth, poor lighting, crappy, un clean balls and poor climate control.

Some rooms keep up with the equipment and I see some rooms that neglect it completely after day one installation. Four and a quarter eliminates the casual player completely from an enjoyment standpoint.

The worst though - from what I see- the very worst are the tables that very amateur table mechanics try to convert 4 3/4 to 5 inch 9 foot Gold Crown and Gandy tables down to 4 1/2- every amateur conversion that I have seen this way - the tables are completely unreliable in speed ( cushion conversions) and ball pocketing acceptance. Only a few really top table mechanics seem to manage this conversion correctly from my experience.

 

[Bavafongoul]

So what size do you guys recommend for us, not pro level but not the ball bangers either.

I found 4.5" corner (and bigger for side) is too easy sometimes, we still miss like a ton, but I don't like the idea that you hit a shot with pocket speed and miss by 1 diamond, it still goes in...

so 4.25" for corner pockets should be the most balanced option right? what is the size for side pockets?

4.25” and 4.75”…..4.5” and 5”……4.75” and 5.25”. IMO, 5” and 5.5” is too generous.
The pocket size rule is side pockets are supposed to be 1/2” wider than the table’s CP.

4.5” corner pockets seem ideal. After all, the pocket is still twice as wide as the pool ball.
That seems fair and also challenging. I like the table pockets a little tighter and so do a
lot of other players at the pool hall. However, that probably isn’t the majority of pool players.

 

[trob]

4 inch is perfect for the pro’s to me. They can still play the pocket but it requires great precision which is what a pro should have. Personally my diamond is 4.25 and most the bars that have diamonds are 4.5 which is better then a valley for league players but not to tight that it makes your average bar patron take a half hour to play a game lol

 

[DynoDan]

Perhaps table designers originally wanted to prevent two balls getting jammed in the corner jaws (?). A rare occurrence, but perplexing none the less.

 

[TheBook]

I have an old Brunswick 9 ft table that was made to the BCA standards at the time. 5 1/4 in corner pockets and 1 1/4 ledge. Players come over and laugh saying that it will be easy because of the buckets. They are then surprised because the balls will rattle the pockets and pop out. There are many factors in how tough a table plays. Not as easy as it looks. The depth of the ledge and the angle of entry add to the factor of difficulty.

 

[Flakeandrun]

Exactly, and that's my point. Posters on AZB keep citing pocket size as the determining factor of what the game is/was/should be, but the struggle is a lack of consistency in another variable that at this moment in time MR can't do anything about.

Diamond has their take on how a table should play, Rasson another. 4.25" on a Diamond seems good, but a bucket on a Rasson. 4" great on a Rasson, nightmare on Diamond. So currently we (MR) needs to use variable spec's based on equipment for sake of presenting a consistent playability for their tour. This is confusing for Joe SixPack, because they don't understand why and there's zero effort made to explain why. All the viewers/posters know is that MR "has played with the pockets again", and sometimes the pros suffer.

What I hope is MR builds enough clout to force the hand of manufacturers into building their equipment to "MR standard". Call it the "pro standard" if that sits better with you.

The Rassons at the recent Worlds is what I would prefer to watch. Great balance of playability and respect for the small target. What are the odds that Diamond would alter their manufacturing to match that performance...?

absolute nail on the head