Pocketing Balls Frozen to the rail?

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Which is the best way to make a ball frozen on the long rail with QB on about a 45 degree angle or more on a Diamond table? I have the Ridgeback rails on my table and they are very bouncy like Diamonds. I mean you just graze the rail with the OB and it says, “nope, not going in”. I have more successes when I use a little inside English on them, but a lot of times you don’t want the QB coming off the rail that way for your next position. Some say make believe the rail isn’t there…whatever that means. I know it’s the tough Ridgeback rails because I had no problems with the other two set of rails I have. Johnnyt
 
I have heard Buddy Hall lament the fact that people use too much english on these shots. His recommendation was to just "roll the ball in."

On the other hand, did you see the video of Johnny Archer on the History Channel explaining how he plans runs and how he pockets balls? I can't remember the name of the show, but he gets down to the 9-ball in that particular runout and it is very close to a rail. He suggests using outside to "make the shot easier."

With no need for shape after the shot, I would suspect that straight 12:00 on the clockface would simplify the shot, therefore making it easier. That's how I execute long frozen rail shots with no need for shape after the shot.
 
JohnnyT, perhaps you've noticed this as well, but for OB's frozen on the rail it helps to hit the shot with some speed. I'm not sure why but when those shots are hit softly they want to come off the rail on the way to the hole.
 
Hit the rail and the OB at about the same time with a little bit of outside english and medium speed. I always do it that way, sometimes. :)
 
Rail and ball contact at the same time with inside english is money for me.
 
I love these shots, I practice them religiously. What I most enjoy about them is being able to shoot a shot that is frozen to the rail either rail first or ball first. It's very difficult for someone who doesn't know these shots very well, but when you do, you just get the feel for where to aim.

If it's a shot for the money, I prefer to hit it with a little inside english, or just dead center ball and float the cue across the table and back.

These are great shots to practice, they really help your stroke IMO.
 
m79a said:
Rail and ball contact at the same time with inside english is money for me.
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I would think that hitting the ball and the rail with inside would throw the ball into the cushion and cause a miss unless deflection is moving your cueball a little bit for a thinner hit. Throw and the english are both pushing the ball into the rail if you hit the shot that way.

Jack Koehler has a book, Science of Pocket Billiards, that goes into this shot in depth.

Ball and rail simultaneously being hit - hit with outside english. Rail first shots can be hit with various types of english, but you need to figure out how much to gap the shot.

I have to admit, the Koehler book recommends hitting some shots rail first with outside english, which just doesn't seem natural to me.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
JohnnyT, perhaps you've noticed this as well, but for OB's frozen on the rail it helps to hit the shot with some speed. I'm not sure why but when those shots are hit softly they want to come off the rail on the way to the hole.
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Here's the reason.

With no english or with inside english, you MUST hit the rail first. If you don't, you will throw the object ball into the rail.

On these shots, if you hit hard, there is a range of places you can hit the rail and still be successful. This is because the cueball can hit the object ball on the way in (while still compressing into the cushion, or it can hit it on the way out (where the inside enghish and/or the running english it's picking up from the rail will throw the ball back toward the rail line).

Hit these softer instead and there is a very small make window. Softer still and the shot may impossible to make.

The only way to make these shots at pocket speed is with outside english, imo
 
rail first

These are shots that can be hit with a lot of slop on any table I have ever played on including some very wet boingy Diamond nine footers.

Hitting ball and rail at the same time is tough and unnecessary. You may have to play around a little to find the speed range to use for different angles but you can hit the rail a quarter inch from the ball on the rail on most tables and skid along the rail into the ball. Some old tables I can skid over a half inch with the cue ball 30 degrees or more out.

These shots are so easy to make hitting way too thin that I never practice cut shots with the ball frozen on the rail, I always bring it out about a half inch to be sure I actually hit it properly and didn't hit thin or miss completely and get away with it.

For a money shot at a ball frozen on the rail and it needing to roll into a pocket I never aim to hit it if I am shooting at less than 60 degrees angle. I always aim to just miss it giving me considerable margin of error both ways and watch the object ball fall because of cue ball skid on the rail. Aim to just whiff by the object ball if it was in the open and these shots fall like rain.

Hu
 
I was practicing rail shots on the end rail one day. They became so easy I decided to try it all the way down on the long rail and they started going in. It looks harder than it is.

Put the object ball on the rail about one diamond up from the kitchen, put the cueball in the kitchen at a 45 degree angle.

Hit it firm with maybe half a tip below center, slightly rail first so the cushion compresses. The cueball should hit the opposite side rail in the kitchen.

If you hit it good the object ball races down the rail into the pocket. Sometimes, depending on how the pocket is cut, the ball will leave the table and dive into the pocket.
 
bud green said:
I would think that hitting the ball and the rail with inside would throw the ball into the cushion and cause a miss unless deflection is moving your cueball a little bit for a thinner hit. Throw and the english are both pushing the ball into the rail if you hit the shot that way.

Jack Koehler has a book, Science of Pocket Billiards, that goes into this shot in depth.

Ball and rail simultaneously being hit - hit with outside english. Rail first shots can be hit with various types of english, but you need to figure out how much to gap the shot.

I have to admit, the Koehler book recommends hitting some shots rail first with outside english, which just doesn't seem natural to me.
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The more acute the angle, or the more the angle goes toward 90 degrees, the more the rail needs to be hit first (up to a point).
Efren used to hit a shot, or still does for that matter, where the OB was frozen on and end rail, or side rail, near a pocket, with the CB up to as much as 90 degrees to the rail. The trick was to shoot realitively hard and hit the rail first, a few thousands of an inch from the OB, with lots of outside english. As the CB went into the cushion (picture this in slow motion) the OB would fall against it and the outside english would send it toward the pocket. It is not an easy shot to make in as much as the CB must contact the rail at the precise spot. :)
 
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frozen rail shots

play the ball with pocket speed & use english & draw/follow if you need it for shape on your next shot

I believe speed is more important than english

don't roll it and don't hammer it

do a drill with 2 balls on each rail & run them out, once you get the feel it is a much easier shot than a mid table cut

I look forward to frozen balls... they are all hangers once you get the feel & speed right
 
How you shoot it depends on where you want the cue ball. That is if its not the last ball. Joe Tucker has a DVD on Rail Shots and its great. He demos one of Corr's rail drills and its very helpful. Check it out. There is a video with some info on his website.
 
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