carteradams
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No need to ban jump cues, just ban changing cues during a match!
Poll: Should Jump Shots Be Banned?
- Thread starter risky biz
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No need to ban jump cues, just ban changing cues during a match!
so one guys full size cue doesnt jump as well as the next guys. theres a trade off somewhere. maybe the non-jumpy full cue imparts more spin, or is easier to aim with, less deflection... if thats the cue you bought thats the trade off you made. ok soooooo now its not fair one guy can apply more english accurately, and hey... thats gonna come up more frequently than needing to jump.
i can jump very accurately, full ball, from quite close to blocking ball with a jump cue. i still hate em and think they should go.i can also jump surprisingly well with my full cue and ive tried ld shafts and can barely budge the ball off the surface of the table with em.
hmmm..... i hate the fact that they are used but how about maybe a rule like: you can only change cues 1x per game. break out that jump cue and now you gotta finish the rack with it.
a rule that addresses the "evolution" of the equipment and the game
agree
I agree with that.If you need or want to jump then do it with the cue you are playing with.i have a jump break and have been taught to jump but never do.I enjoy trying to kick at it instead. I did not see this but have been told by several people who were there in dayton Ohio when Strictland was just starting he was jumping balls with his playing cue with no problem and ended up beating Buddy hall in the finals.I do believe the jump cues dillute the game.Just my opinion.
I agree with that.If you need or want to jump then do it with the cue you are playing with.i have a jump break and have been taught to jump but never do.I enjoy trying to kick at it instead. I did not see this but have been told by several people who were there in dayton Ohio when Strictland was just starting he was jumping balls with his playing cue with no problem and ended up beating Buddy hall in the finals.I do believe the jump cues dillute the game.Just my opinion.
I used my full break cue for that jump shot, which is allowed. And I was playing Chris Szuter.
Well, at least he knew it was you!
Earl has stated many times he uses a jump cue because they are legal and as long as other people are allowed to use them and do, then anyone is at a serious disadvantage if they do NOT use one.
Earl has also ALWAYS gone on the record saying he thinks Jump Cues should be outlawed from professional play.
It is the cue you go and get to make the shot instead of using the same cue you just shot the last 46 shots with because it is specially constructed to do one thing, jump balls.
There is not special "right hand siding" cue for people, they do not normally go get their
"draw shot" cue out of their bag when they have a draw shot, they are not grabbing a "kick shot" cue when one comes up. ALL of those shots are performed with their primary shooter.
The rules of pool should be you shoot ALL non-break shots with your normal primary, single shooting cue.
The length of the cue should be no less then 56 inches, and no greater then 62 inches.
The break cue must fall within the same length window and is ONLY allowed to be used on break shots. So no using a 59 inch cue and switching to a 56 inch break cue to jump with, the break cue is only allowed on the break shot.
You declare your shooting cue at the start of a match and that is the cue you shoot all non-break shots with from then until the end.
Shaft changes are only allowed when the shaft being switched to is of equal length to the previous shaft and such changes can only be made in between games (unless in the case of damage to a shaft/tip mid-game in which case the tournament director or ref is called to witness the damage to the current shaft and oversee/allow the shaft change).
I would bet you could get action from Earl in a jump cue jumping competition. In fact I bet people on this forum would bet tons with you on such a matchup.
I have never seen Donny Mills jump, but there is another guy that if he decided to put his jump cue using skills up against your superior ones I would probably be betting on Donny.
What I am saying? You are simply flat out wrong. Alot of people who want the jump cue banned are actually very profficient with them. Alot of the people who want them banned are profficient in ALOT of aspects of the game, they can kick extremely well, they can play masse very well, they play very precise shape and have great weight control and patterns.
The people who want the jump cue to remain are in fact the people who lean on it like a crutch because unlike the people above they CANNOT kick very well, they cannot play a proper masse shot, they tend to have more trouble playing procise shape, and that jump-cue is the thing that helps them compete against the people above who are flat out more skilled at the other key areas of the game.
As said above, by JB himself in this thread, the Jump Cue is the great equalizer, it takes a player who is extremely skilled in many aspects of the game such as kicking, masse, precise shape play, and quality defensive play, and it help diminish the difference between the excellent well rounded player and the guy who only knows how to use that jump cue that 8-year olds get pretty good at after 10 minutes of Robin showing them how in Vegas.
Jumping with a jump cue is bloody easy, it is trivial when compared to high level multi-rail kicking or masse shots. If someone cannot figure out how to properly use a jump cue then they probably generally suck at the whole game because a jump cue makes jumping pretty freaking easy, and I mean jumping and potting balls with various spins or jumping to return safes, not just getting over the ball.
The jump cue gives alot of lesser players a far better chance of winning a match due to it replacing many far more difficult aspects of the game that take years to learn and decades to master.
The people who want Jump cues to remain tend to suck at kicking, masse, play fairly poor safeties, and require that jump cue just to compete with the people better at all that stuff then they are.
Sorry I have to respond. I should unsubscribe to this thread.
This is incorrect. To kick at a ball is bloody easy. Hit the ball in a straight line. You don't even need a good stroke to do it. You just need to figure out where on the rail to hit the ball. It's is completely process of elimination at the most basic level.
I can take any of my employees who all suck at pool but who love to play and give them an exercise to make a simple one-rail kick shot to contact the object ball. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them will have made the shot on their own within FIVE minutes of picking up the cue with NO INSTRUCTION from me. I can expand that to a two rail kick and guarantee with a very large bet that each of them will get it within 10 minutes at most.
However NONE of them, not one will figure out how to jump a ball if all I do is give them a jump cue and the shot with no instruction. Not one of them. They play pool every day for an hour. After work some of them stay and play for several hours. NOT one of them can jump a ball with a jump cue. No chance in hell.
IF I wanted to teach them then I would need at least an hour to build a quality stroke first or more. Then after that they would MAYBE be able to jump a ball.
I am sorry but I cannot allow these silly comparisons to continue.
It's not a war between kicking and jumping. The JUMP SHOT is part of the game BECAUSE the rules allow for it.
People build cues all the time that are designed to give bette PERFORMANCE. You all accept that Predator deflects less and accept their claims that it generates more spin so why do you have a problem with a cue that is simply more comfortable to hold when a player is facing a jump shot.
Who dictated that players have to be contorted in uncomfortable positions to play a certain shot? You use a BRIDGE so that you don't have to stretch uncomfortably to reach a shot. People use cue extensions to reach shots so that they don't have to get their bodies into awkward positions.
But when someone invents a short cue with a hard tip so that the act of jumping becomes easier then it's a crime???
And so what if the act of making a ball hop is as easy as striking the ball?
Why is this a problem? Great pool is not about the people who FLAIL an get lucky sometimes. Great pool is about the people who master the game and play it with precision and finesse.
It is NOT "bloody easy" to jump with precision. It is NOT "bloody easy" to jump with spin. It is NOT "bloody easy" to jump with shape on the next ball.
How "bloody easy" is it to do all these things without the jump shot? Not easy at all as most players know. So why would you think that adding in the jump component to any shot would be easier or "easy" at all?
If anyone on this forum who is not a known professional player wants to gamble with me doing jump shots because they think it's bloody easy then I am now willing to bet $100 per shot. I have a great amount of shots that I developed over the years through practice to demonstrate the usefulness of the jump cue. Since precision jumping is "freaking easy" with a jump cue according to some of you come and take my money. I will quite when you beat me out of $1000. You have to freeze up $500 and agree to keep playing until you have won my $1000 or lost your $500.
Any takers? Just put your money where your mouths are if you think it's so easy. When you beat me you can come on the board and link to the video and tell everyone how you never practiced a single shot before the competition and how the jump cue did all the work. Easy payday right?
Here is a short playlist of five shots among dozens that I did in 2000. Set it to full screen to see them. Go practice these before you bet and come back and tell me how long it took. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i7kJFY1zyI&list=PLCDAE91F25C56ADDC&feature=plpp
And these are just a few of my shots.
This is so true. Too easy just to not let your opponent ball in hand. Takes the extremely difficult art of kicking completely out of the game. Should never allow the game to be less skillful but that's what the short cue does
Not to mention the headache given to the proprietor watching someone BANG away on your prized table with new cloth
Ban the little cue ... it's barbaric, unsophisticated and just plain wrong
jmho
I missed the memo where people are not allowed to kick if they own a jump cue?
I have completely been doing it the wrong way all these years.
When I play I look at the shot and make a decision as to what the best route is. If it's a kick shot then I play that and if it's a jump shot then I play that.
Also there are a LOT of situations where there is NO jump shot available. So if the "extremely difficult art of kicking" has been taken out of the game what do players do then?
And why are there more books and videos teaching kicking than ever before if no one is interested in learning how to do it?
Fallacies abound, no way to go around, jump through and be, to follow your heart where whimsy be.
It's generalizations like this that fuel the divide.
Since the only people who want jump cues to remain that we can actively poll in relatively real time are participating on this forum then you must be speaking about them.
So it's your contention that the people on this forum who are for jump cues "tend to suck at kicking, masse, play fairly poor safeties" and that they "require that jump cue just to compete with the people better at all that stuff then they are"?
So if I went and compiled a list of people over say the past year who came out in favor of jump cues and compared to a list of people who said the jump cue should be banned you would be willing to bet heavily on a comparison of all around skills.
And then I have to ask what the ultimate goal is? When the jump cue is banned do we then start banning knowledge? After all if I know a system for kicking balls and you don't then do I not have an unfair advantage?
Are kicking systems required just to compete with the people better at all that (kicking) stuff then they are?
Again it's not a freaking war between kicking and jumping.
They are two aspects of the game that COMPLIMENT each other.
Have you never seen a jump-kick shot? How would you make such a shot?
You are down in the world champioinships and your opponent has left you no jump shot directly to the ball. Also all kicking lanes are blocked. Your only option to hit the ball is to jump and kick two rails.
What is YOUR advice about how to play it?
Pick up the cue ball and hand it to your opponent and say nice match?
OR
Do you pull out the jump cue and rely on your PRACTICED stroke to accurately judge the speed and trajectory to clear the ball and the speed and aim to hit the rail where you need to based on your knowledge of how to kick and impart just the right amount of spin to lengthen the path off the first rail to come in neatly behind the object ball?
I kinda like option 2 and I think that the crowd does as well.
This is an amazing thread. I knew I would like this forum. I got my first jump cue in 92 from Dan Janes. Love it. I have a break cue as well...and a masse cue.
Heck...it can look like I am showing up to play golf!
But I don't need anything but my JOSS playing cue when it comes down to it. I will even break with it. Yup...I will break with it....all 38 years worth of aged beauty of it....and jump with it....and masse with it. I dare say I will make any shot with it that I can make with my "specialty" cues. Just takes practice....that's all. Just practice.
Speaking of which....I am a little out of practice these days....but there was a time when I could jump with the best of them.....pro....road player....and otherwise.....and that was before I got a jump cue.
As far as I know my jump cue became "illegal" shortly after I got it....too short....not that I cared anyway.
So many people getting so heated about a little cue.
JB Cases...I wish I were not out of practice, I would have loved to take you up on that in days gone by. :thumbup:
Heck...it can look like I am showing up to play golf!
But I don't need anything but my JOSS playing cue when it comes down to it. I will even break with it. Yup...I will break with it....all 38 years worth of aged beauty of it....and jump with it....and masse with it. I dare say I will make any shot with it that I can make with my "specialty" cues. Just takes practice....that's all. Just practice.
Speaking of which....I am a little out of practice these days....but there was a time when I could jump with the best of them.....pro....road player....and otherwise.....and that was before I got a jump cue.
As far as I know my jump cue became "illegal" shortly after I got it....too short....not that I cared anyway.
So many people getting so heated about a little cue.
JB Cases...I wish I were not out of practice, I would have loved to take you up on that in days gone by. :thumbup:
Really? I saw one tournament nine-ball match where the object ball was completely surrounded by other balls due to a superb safety shot. So the "highly skilled" opponent pulls out his jump cue and lands on the OB from above. Since you're such an advocate of learning better safety play, please explain how to play a better safety than that.
By the way- anyone who claims the guy with the jump cue was the better player is full of poopy.
So a jump shot is a shot that adds to the skill level of the game? A shot in which guessing what your position is going to be after the shot most of the time is about as certain as rolling dice for even those who are "skilled" with jump shots? A shot where the cue ball goes flying off the table very often? Please.
Oh wait, I know- you always know where your cue ball is going to end up and you'll do it on video. Right? OK. I'd like to see 50 shots like that where you call your position for the next shot.
You're right. A masse can be played without striking the cloth so doesn't damage the equipment and requires a high level of skill. But they've disappeared because it's easier to jump. One more example of how JB's assertion that jump shots raise the overall skill level of pool is dead wrong.
Exactly. But when someone pulls out a jump cue you know you're going to watch someone get lucky and hit it clean and maybe get an actual shot out of it or, 80% of the time, see the balls slopped around the table in every random direction.
carteradams
Registered
JB you have made reasonable arguments for you position up until this post.
Comparing a skill that you have to learn to a "skill" that you can buy is nonsense. (we all agree jumping is easier with a jump cue or this thread would have died a couple of days ago)
~Carter