Poll: smoking and pool

[conetip]

There were over 60 turned up for a local 9ball tournament.The poolroom has put a smoking area in place. I saw only 12 or so people use that area all day. Of those, only 3 were competitors . Either the other smokers really did not need to smoke that day, or there are alot less people smoking that play 9ball.
I am seeing now alot more considerate smokers these days compared with 10 years ago.
I prefer to play in a smoke free environment. That way the cue case and cue don't smell of smoke residue.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

In Maryland you cannot smoke in any public building. This has caused many bars and pool rooms collapse.

 

[mikepage]

[...]

Smoking should be determined by the proprietor and its clentele. Not the government.

Do you think the proprietor and its clientele should also determine

(1) Occupancy ?
(2) Lighting for fire exits?
(3) whether the food and cleaning chemicals are stored together?
(4) the treatment/handing/age of the meat that goes into the chili?

In other words most of us agree that a proper role of the government is to assure a patron in a public business enjoys a safe environment. That is, a patron shouldn't be required to check the cables on the elevator or analyze the quality of the air before playing pool.

So I think we would all agree the government has an interest in insuring safe air. The only remaining issue is how clean is clean? What is acceptable air from a public health perspective? Telling people they can't burn tobacco inside a public business really doesn't seem like that big a restriction.

I think what people struggle with is the "we've always done it like that" mentality.

Take a step back, and look at the bigger picture.

 

[risky biz]

A wise man once told me to never buy a historic house.
There are a lot of historic houses where I live. The vast majority look like crack houses and there is a good reason for that. That wise man I spoke of bought a historic house. You can't paint that house unless it is era specific paint and it is the exact color, you can't fix anything in that house until it falls off on it's own and then fixing it is an ordeal all it's own. He had a shed in the back that was almost falling down and he couldn't do anything to it because it is historic.

Because he got historic building tax credits.

 

[risky biz]

Originally Posted by risky biz
OK, so Larry Fine is Fast Larry. Larry Fine used exagerratedly provocative language condemning smokers then voted "NO". Figures.

Have you got a point?

Yes, the comment does have a point.

 

[Sam Waltz]

Bollocks

Our smoking ban just went into effect last month. It includes ALL forms of tobacco products and electronic cigarettes as well as having patio areas that must remain uncovered if a proprietor wishes to allow them as a smoking area. Someone also asked if the tobacco stores were included...the answer for our city is an incredulous, "YES". They even remembered to eliminate the "private club" clause in the bill so that's been covered as well.

If ya don't like smoke, DON'T STINKIN' GO WHERE IT'S ALLOWED. I don't wanna hear preaching gospel pushing evangelists, so I don't hang out in churches, but I'm not going to roll down to the local house of worship and tell 'em to STFU cause they are infringing on my "rights". And don't go tellin' me your age old line about how it's ALL about health concerns for yourself and the welfare of the American populace either! If you gave a damn about health you'd be voting to illegalize tobacco entirely, but of course you wouldn't want to give up another one of your "sin" taxes so we all know that will NEVER happen!

I've been through this same situation before when the bans went into effect out in California. Yes, businesses will recover from the initial decline over the next 3 to 6 months, but those who were already struggling WILL go under due to this new law. It's a fact of life so don't BS about it. Maybe we should ban MSG next since it's a crappy thing to put in our systems and see if we can close all the restaurants down. Seems like an equal and righteous thing to attack as well doesn't it?

The end result of all this is that sooner or later your freedoms as Americans will be reduced one small bit at a time until one day you wake up...at the required state mandated reveille hour...report as you've been ordered...to your place of employment...wearing your proper uniform and answering to "the man" who you voted to put in power.

Enjoy the future my politically correct counterparts...it's the one you will continue to vote in... viva the cause!

Ok, gettin' off my soapbox now....ahhhh, yessss...I can just feel all that tension flow right from my body after a good vent session...

Ya'll come back now ya'hear!

P.S. Didn't vote in your biased poll either because you didn't have a selection I agreed with!

 

[risky biz]

In Maryland you cannot smoke in any public building. This has caused many bars and pool rooms collapse.

California mandates clean indoor air and there are more pool rooms and bars than ever.

 

[sfleinen]

Do you think the proprietor and its clientele should also determine

(1) Occupancy ?
(2) Lighting for fire exits?
(3) whether the food and cleaning chemicals are stored together?
(4) the treatment/handing/age of the meat that goes into the chili?

In other words most of us agree that a proper role of the government is to assure a patron in a public business enjoys a safe environment. That is, a patron shouldn't be required to check the cables on the elevator or analyze the quality of the air before playing pool.

So I think we would all agree the government has an interest in insuring safe air. The only remaining issue is how clean is clean? What is acceptable air from a public health perspective? Telling people they can't burn tobacco inside a public business really doesn't seem like that big a restriction.

I think what people struggle with is the "we've always done it like that" mentality.

Take a step back, and look at the bigger picture.

Mike:

IMHO, I really think you nailed it. The "customer shouldn't have to check the cables to the elevator to ensure they get a safe ride" is really the core of the government's involvement in public safety. And of course, "how much involvement" is also the other side of that coin.

The problem is that the many who are adversely affected by these laws view them as "prophylactic" laws. Much like the laws forbidding the use of a non-hands-free cell phone or PDA while driving. NY State implemented that rule long ago (it was one of the first states to implement this law as part of its crackdown on "distracted driving"). And I remember back then, the accusations of "prophylactic laws" to, as the anti-advocates would say, "punish the many for the mistakes of a few." One of my colleagues at the time, who was one of these "anti-advocates" (anti-"no non-hands-free cell phone use while driving," that is) was one of the WORST drivers I've ever seen -- while he was on a cell phone, that is. When distracted by yapping on his cell, he would drive like there was noone else on the road -- completely oblivious to things that were happening around him. You couldn't tell that to him, of course, because, afterall, "the law was 'prophylactic'." It inconvenienced him.

I do agree that this may be a case of "well, we used to do it this way, and it'd worked fine all the way up until now" thing.

I'm ex-military (USN veteran, a member of the American Legion and VFW, the whole shebang). I used to work around folks who smoked, even though I don't smoke myself. The fact that they "smoked" didn't bother me -- it was their body, afterall, and they were free to do with it what they will. However, I would distance myself from someone smoking, because 1.) the smoke would make my eyes red and tear (I'd feel like I I'd been watching the direct light of an arc-welder with no welder's mask), and 2.) I simply hated the way my uniforms smelled afterward. However, one of my former shipmates recently passed away from lung cancer -- even though he didn't smoke a day in his life (and no, he didn't do "mary jane" either). It was attributed to all the years that he'd spent in the tight spaces with smokers, and not distancing himself from the second-hand smoke (read: unfiltered smoke). It really is a shame to have someone cut-down in their late-40s from something as "seemingly innocuous" as second-hand smoke.

I can understand the "stop the government meddling" thing, but there has to be a happy medium drawn. The public shouldn't have to "check the elevator cables" before walking into a public restaurant or bar -- that is, they shouldn't have to first peek in to see if there are any smokers. Their decision to patronize a normally-enjoyable public place shouldn't be limited by a "routine" to check the place first.

IMHO, of course,
-Sean

 

[risky biz]

If ya don't like smoke, DON'T STINKIN' GO WHERE IT'S ALLOWED. I don't wanna hear preaching gospel pushing evangelists, so I don't hang out in churches, but I'm not going to roll down to the local house of worship and tell 'em to STFU cause they are infringing on my "rights".

You would if it was the only place you could play pool.

And don't go tellin' me your age old line about how it's ALL about health concerns for yourself and the welfare of the American populace either! If you gave a damn about health you'd be voting to illegalize tobacco entirely, but of course you wouldn't want to give up another one of your "sin" taxes so we all know that will NEVER happen!

Do you also think that all taxpayers shouldn't have to pay the Medicare costs of people who gave themselves smoking related diseases?

The end result of all this is that sooner or later your freedoms as Americans will be reduced one small bit at a time until one day you wake up...at the required state mandated reveille hour...report as you've been ordered...to your place of employment...wearing your proper uniform and answering to "the man" who you voted to put in power.

Enjoy the future my politically correct counterparts...it's the one you will continue to vote in... viva the cause!

The government has been shredding the Bill of Rights for the last ten years and you're worried about your "right" to make someone else share your disease-causing pack of cigarettes with you or else they can just get the hell out of pool?

P.S. Didn't vote in your biased poll either because you didn't have a selection I agreed with!

I should have put in an answer like, "No, I wouldn't play in a pool hall that prohibited smoking because everyone should have the opportunity to share my wonderful pack of cigarettes with me and encouragement of smoking is a great way to promote more participation in pool and get pool recognized as a legitimate sport."

 

[Underclocked]

Sam Waltz, well done!

 

[cigardave]

Message for whining non-smokers,

Vent your frustration to the smokers who are smoking around you.

You have absolutely nothing to gain by whining to us.

 

[ccshrimper]

I remember this little worm cigar smoker in my pool hall right before the smoking ban came into effect. We were arguing about it and I didn't really care if the cig ban came into effect at the time but I was glad cigars were going to be banned because one nasty ass cigar could stink up the whole place. He asked me "what would you do if I lit up a cigar right now and blew the smoke in your face" I told him I'd shove it up his ass and then he left.

I can't believe how many cigarette smokers have told me they're glad the smoking ban is in effect now because it's cut down on their smoking.

 

[Sam Waltz]

Ahhhhh!

Hey, thanks Rich!

Sorry Risky Biz, I forgot that you closed minded types actually believe that your OPINION is RIGHT and shouldn't be challenged, but oh well, here's a box of cyber kleenex for those tears. Just one more little bitty thing....I never said I would FORCE anyone to inhale my second hand smoke. Choices should always be available and made by each individual, but if you think that any established smoking venue should change the way they do business just because your self righteous ass walks through the door your nothing but an egotistical self-centered jerk. It's hopeless to argue this point anyway as there is no RIGHT to the matter. Opinions may vary, but imposing one person's wishes on another regardless of the reasoning is wrong. Remember to not complain when something you value is taken from you due to another's opposing opinion. It WILL happen and you will be needin' more kleenex! See ya...

 

[bobroberts]

I smoked for 25 years and quit cold. No its not physically addictive but mentally addictive as hell. Okay maybe a little jittery the first couple of days.
If you own an establishment, i believe you should be able to set the laws down of your place. The business you get or don't get will decide for you whether you make it or not. The govnt should stay out of private business. They sure can't handle their own very well. If you want to make smoking illegal then ban it every where but don't have double standards.

 

[OneIron]

If ya don't like smoke, DON'T STINKIN' GO WHERE IT'S ALLOWED. I don't wanna hear preaching gospel pushing evangelists, so I don't hang out in churches, but I'm not going to roll down to the local house of worship and tell 'em to STFU cause they are infringing on my "rights". And don't go tellin' me your age old line about how it's ALL about health concerns for yourself and the welfare of the American populace either! If you gave a damn about health you'd be voting to illegalize tobacco entirely, but of course you wouldn't want to give up another one of your "sin" taxes so we all know that will NEVER happen!

Unfortunately in a lot of areas, there are no non-smoking pool rooms. So I guess your argument is that I should quit playing pool because it's an inconvenience to smokers to walk 10 feet to the outside to smoke.

 

[KRJ]

Hmmmm

Our smoking ban just went into effect last month. It includes ALL forms of tobacco products and electronic cigarettes as well as having patio areas that must remain uncovered if a proprietor wishes to allow them as a smoking area. Someone also asked if the tobacco stores were included...the answer for our city is an incredulous, "YES". They even remembered to eliminate the "private club" clause in the bill so that's been covered as well.

If ya don't like smoke, DON'T STINKIN' GO WHERE IT'S ALLOWED. I don't wanna hear preaching gospel pushing evangelists, so I don't hang out in churches, but I'm not going to roll down to the local house of worship and tell 'em to STFU cause they are infringing on my "rights". And don't go tellin' me your age old line about how it's ALL about health concerns for yourself and the welfare of the American populace either! If you gave a damn about health you'd be voting to illegalize tobacco entirely, but of course you wouldn't want to give up another one of your "sin" taxes so we all know that will NEVER happen!

I've been through this same situation before when the bans went into effect out in California. Yes, businesses will recover from the initial decline over the next 3 to 6 months, but those who were already struggling WILL go under due to this new law. It's a fact of life so don't BS about it. Maybe we should ban MSG next since it's a crappy thing to put in our systems and see if we can close all the restaurants down. Seems like an equal and righteous thing to attack as well doesn't it?

The end result of all this is that sooner or later your freedoms as Americans will be reduced one small bit at a time until one day you wake up...at the required state mandated reveille hour...report as you've been ordered...to your place of employment...wearing your proper uniform and answering to "the man" who you voted to put in power.

Enjoy the future my politically correct counterparts...it's the one you will continue to vote in... viva the cause!

Ok, gettin' off my soapbox now....ahhhh, yessss...I can just feel all that tension flow right from my body after a good vent session...

Ya'll come back now ya'hear!

P.S. Didn't vote in your biased poll either because you didn't have a selection I agreed with!

WOW...sure lotta blah here, but NOT a single valid point. This garbage, and it is garbage, you are spewing out, is not fit for an 4th grade debate team. Really, this is all you got. Yikes.

** we use to like paying children to work 12 hours a day for peanuts but then the damn gov't stepped in and stopped it... geez, it the kids didn't like it, they could work somewhere else.

** we use to like paying guys to work at great heights with no safety precautions. And a lot of them fell to their death until the damn gov't stepped in again. God Dern big brother.. I mean, if you don't like falling to your death, go find a job somewhere else. Now the costs went up because employers had to buy safety equipment...geez.

** we use to like driving cars that without airbags, seatbells, crumple zones, or even safety glass. But damn gov't stepped in again to protect my dumb arse.

** servers and bar tenders have to breathe in poison gas each night and tough luck sally when you get sick in 20 years.....and if you want to argue about it being poison gas, then lets bring it on and we can debate this head on with out the stupid comparisons to going to a church and telling them to STFU.....

** shall we even discuss how the miners were treated in the good old days. Probably not much better now, but then you got guys (employers) like this guy that only cares about the bottom line and not some disposable hick with a pick ax....

If you don't like the smoking ban, then stay the F*ck home..... We had 200 years of your way, now it's the majority's turn to enjoy restaurants, bars, pool rooms, etc without somebody's dirty habit infringing on my right to breathe clean air while i'm drinking a cold beer and eating a nice meal...

Get over it, because it is not going to change back, and no reason to be bitter about it. Get use to it. You now feel like how we all felt for the last few decades, pissed off !! The shoe is on the other foot now. It's your addiction, so don't go blaming the gov't because you can't lick it... pretty sad actually, any addicition for that matter, and as a human you can't overcome it. Not sure how folks like that go thru life, because they are beat from the get go. If you can't beat that, how the heck you gonna handle the real problems life throws at you. Get some help. But I do know you must be a pool player, so I know you gotta be strong, now go out and be stronger and quit this addiction today. I'll buy every current pack of smokes you have in your house today if you toss them out. Give me your paypal. I'm good for it...I"m on the GAL

 

[mm4pool]

If ya don't like smoke, DON'T STINKIN' GO WHERE IT'S ALLOWED.

i am not a smoker and i might agree with the above statement except that I feel I have a right to enjoy a meal at a restuarant without smelling cig smoke. before the bans went into effect where i live it was common to be sitting at a table in a restuarant and some inconsiderate jack wagon smoker at the next table is chain smoking to beat all hell. i have actually witnessed someone at a table eating with a lit cigarette takin a puff in between bites. i mean come on, are you really that addicted that you must smoke between bites of food?

so before the first smoking ban to not go where it was allowed would mean eating at home as my only option. i whole heartedly endorse the bans in my area. at least now i can go out to eat and enjoy a nice meal without smelling the stench of smoke.

Mike

 

[OneIron]

If you don't like the smoking ban, then stay the F*ck home..... We had 200 years of your way, now it's the majority's turn to enjoy restaurants, bars, pool rooms, etc without somebody's sick, disgusting dirty, habit infringing on my right to breathe clean air while i'm drinking a cold beer.

Get over it, because it is not going to change back, and no reason to be bitter about it. Get use to it. You now feel like how we all felt for the last few decades, pissed off !! The shoe is on the other foot now. It's your addiction, so don't go blaming the gov't because you can't lick it... pretty sad actually, any addicition for that matter, and as a human you can't overcome it. Not sure how folks like that go thru life, because they are beat from the get go. If you can't beat that, how the heck you gonna handle the real problems life throws at you. Get some help. But I do know you must be a pool player, so I know you gotta be strong, now go out and be stronger and quit this addiction today. I'll buy every current pack of smokes you have in your house today if you toss them out. Give me your paypal. I'm good for it...

Damnit man, you're good! Wish I had posted that...

 

[risky biz]

Hey, thanks Rich!

Sorry Risky Biz, I forgot that you closed minded types actually believe that your OPINION is RIGHT and shouldn't be challenged, but oh well, here's a box of cyber kleenex for those tears. Just one more little bitty thing....I never said I would FORCE anyone to inhale my second hand smoke. Choices should always be available and made by each individual, but if you think that any established smoking venue should change the way they do business just because your self righteous ass walks through the door your nothing but an egotistical self-centered jerk. It's hopeless to argue this point anyway as there is no RIGHT to the matter. Opinions may vary, but imposing one person's wishes on another regardless of the reasoning is wrong. Remember to not complain when something you value is taken from you due to another's opposing opinion. It WILL happen and you will be needin' more kleenex! See ya...

Actually, I think it's the openminded questions I asked you above which you're ignoring that are what's really bothering you. In the meantime, why don't you wear a sign that says, "If you don't want to share my pack of cigarettes then stop playing pool"?

 

[risky biz]

Message for whining non-smokers,

Vent your frustration to the smokers who are smoking around you.

You have absolutely nothing to gain by whining to us.

Really, Dave- I think it's the smokers here who sound more like whiners. It takes a man to be considerate of others.

[P.S. And based on the answers to the poll most smokers are considerate of others. So, I should have referenced smokers who aren't considerate, a very small minority.]