Pool: Gentleman's Game or Scoundrel's Game

[ShootingArts]

no flames but how?

I agree Joey, keep the profit in the good ol USA. Here come the flames. Let me get my fire suit on quick. Johnnyt

The only way to keep the gambling in the USA is government gateway servers and a government ran firewall. Do we really want that? The way things are going we may well get that anyway in the near future but if the cost of pool being successful was the end of the internet as we know it, I'd prefer to keep the internet.

Right now when I send this message info from Louisiana to Arizona data packets may go through a server anywhere in the world. I routinely read news sites from all over the world too. Once we give the government censorship powers over the internet we give them control of the primary way we can gather world news and opinion. All news media is badly slanted one way or the other. Only by gathering information from a wide variety of sources can we get a feel for what is real. I would hate to trade access to information for gambling.

Hu

 

[Johnnyt]

The only way to keep the gambling in the USA is government gateway servers and a government ran firewall. Do we really want that? The way things are going we may well get that anyway in the near future but if the cost of pool being successful was the end of the internet as we know it, I'd prefer to keep the internet.

Right now when I send this message info from Louisiana to Arizona data packets may go through a server anywhere in the world. I routinely read news sites from all over the world too. Once we give the government censorship powers over the internet we give them control of the primary way we can gather world news and opinion. All news media is badly slanted one way or the other. Only by gathering information from a wide variety of sources can we get a feel for what is real. I would hate to trade access to information for gambling.

Hu

I didn't know that's the only way it could be done. I wouldn't like that trade-off either. Johnnyt

 

[JoeyA]

The only way to keep the gambling in the USA is government gateway servers and a government ran firewall. Do we really want that? The way things are going we may well get that anyway in the near future but if the cost of pool being successful was the end of the internet as we know it, I'd prefer to keep the internet.

Right now when I send this message info from Louisiana to Arizona data packets may go through a server anywhere in the world. I routinely read news sites from all over the world too. Once we give the government censorship powers over the internet we give them control of the primary way we can gather world news and opinion. All news media is badly slanted one way or the other. Only by gathering information from a wide variety of sources can we get a feel for what is real. I would hate to trade access to information for gambling.

Hu

I don't think you are 100% on track on this one Hu, although I could be wrong. I believe the U.S. could allow American Gambling Corporations to operate gambling poker, pool and what have you businesses online and could monitor the corporations for income and taxes. Just another revenue stream for the government. The transactions could be made through credit cards and monitored that way as well. The credit card companies could be demanded to avoid all gambling corporations except those sanctioned by the USA government.

The government and anyone else that has a mind to is already monitoring the Internet and tracking you every time you get on the Internet but you already know that.


JoeyA

 

[ShootingArts]

internet gambling has always been illegal

Joey,

The US government can allow US companies to handle gambling but the only way to stop international companies from handling bets also is with a firewall and they can still handle bets from around the world except in the US. There are two kinds of firewalls, those that you have to specify what sites are blocked and those that any site not specifically allowed is blocked. Obviously, trying to block sites as fast as they are created is a losing battle so the only practical firewall is one that has to specifically allow sites. It doesn't really matter which is used though, either way the government controls access to the internet. Once the government starts regulating something their areas of regulation always increase. Another issue is that firewalls are by their very nature bottlenecks in traffic flow. Do we want to slow down the internet in the US, maybe have it grind to a halt at times due to the national firewall?

Internet gambling has always been illegal. Who do you know that was deeply involved with internet poker or other gambling quit because of the new banking laws? I don't know of anyone. The people I know barely noticed a hick-up.

Hu

I don't think you are 100% on track on this one Hu, although I could be wrong. I believe the U.S. could allow American Gambling Corporations to operate gambling poker, pool and what have you businesses online and could monitor the corporations for income and taxes. Just another revenue stream for the government. The transactions could be made through credit cards and monitored that way as well. The credit card companies could be demanded to avoid all gambling corporations except those sanctioned by the USA government.

The government and anyone else that has a mind to is already monitoring the Internet and tracking you every time you get on the Internet but you already know that.


JoeyA

 

[memikey]

I'm not sure that internet gambling is itself illegal as a stand alone act in USA. I seem to recall reading at the time of the IPT colapse debacle that until it is tested in court it's more of a case of it being the transferring of the money to overseas gambling firms out of USA banks which is the illegal act. For example I don't think at that time it was necessarily illegal for a resident of USA to place bets from his computer in USA with an internet gambling firm in say Uk, if he is forwarding the money to them from an account held in his name in a bank outside USA.

I'm not a resident of USA so I would obviously defer to any more detailed knowledge of how things have moved on in USA regarding this subject in recent years..... but let me explain to you my own quite recent personal relevant experience of a connected subject which kinda ties in with this.........

I recently opened internet gambling accounts with three different internet bookmaking firms, all reputable and famous household name Uk/Ireland group company parentage but technically offshore companies for their internet stuff. Because of Govt internet censorship of gambling fims here in UAE I can only deal with these firms via a proxy server which bypasses the UAE's website blocking systems.

This proxy is routed through USA (Palo Alto located I think) and when I first opened the accounts and transferred the money (via one credit card issued by a Dubai bank and another issued by a Uk bank) each betting firms' technical departments pretty quickly picked up the fact that "my" IP address appeared to indicate that I was located at a computer in USA and as a result they temporarily suspended my account until they could clarify that the money was not going to originate in USA. After verifying that the money did not come from USA they had no real interest in where I was located other than to confirm my identity. Obviously there were no USA located firewalls preventing the bets being placed and only the discipline and policies of the gambling firms and banks were actually providing any controls.

Obviously they now know where I live but I got the distinct impression that they would not have prevented me betting with them even if I lived in USA provided I could verify that I had no intention of trying to transfer money to them from a bank in USA.

 

[Mark Griffin]

good discussion

This is one of several threads about how to 'jumpstart' pool. Thankis Joey A for startiang this discussion.

PLEASE find me at the DCC and we can discuss a couple of things that I am not at liberty to post. I would also be interested in meeting with anyone else that has some 'good' ideas.

My personal opinion is that doing the same tournament structure (or similar) is not going to correcdt the problem. Pool - even for us fans - is hard to watch. It truly might be that it is not a good spectator sport.

But there are a lot of good ideas floating aorund.

I am open to new ideas all the time and will help in any way that I can.

mark Griffin

 

[JoeyA]

This is one of several threads about how to 'jumpstart' pool. Thankis Joey A for startiang this discussion.

PLEASE find me at the DCC and we can discuss a couple of things that I am not at liberty to post. I would also be interested in meeting with anyone else that has some 'good' ideas.

My personal opinion is that doing the same tournament structure (or similar) is not going to correcdt the problem. Pool - even for us fans - is hard to watch. It truly might be that it is not a good spectator sport.

But there are a lot of good ideas floating aorund.

I am open to new ideas all the time and will help in any way that I can.

mark Griffin

I'll be sure to look you up at DCC Mark. Stay tuned to this thread.

It's always nice talking to you but I really want to play you some even up one pocket for a c note a game. Whatever I win from you I'll shoot back at Greg. :grin-devilish:
What I meant to say is IF I WIN ANYTHING FROM YOU, I will shoot it all at Greg. :-(
JoeyA (the Scoundrel)

 

[ShootingArts]

you are confirming what I am saying

Mike,

You are basically confirming what I am saying. The USA is not using a firewall now and they can't control gambling now. There are easy work arounds so that US citizens keep right on gambling with pretty much anyone they want to.

What I am saying is to control gambling a firewall would be required.

Hu

I'm not sure that internet gambling is itself illegal as a stand alone act in USA. I seem to recall reading at the time of the IPT colapse debacle that until it is tested in court it's more of a case of it being the transferring of the money to overseas gambling firms out of USA banks which is the illegal act. For example I don't think at that time it was necessarily illegal for a resident of USA to place bets from his computer in USA with an internet gambling firm in say Uk, if he is forwarding the money to them from an account held in his name in a bank outside USA.

I'm not a resident of USA so I would obviously defer to any more detailed knowledge of how things have moved on in USA regarding this subject in recent years..... but let me explain to you my own quite recent personal relevant experience of a connected subject which kinda ties in with this.........

I recently opened internet gambling accounts with three different internet bookmaking firms, all reputable and famous household name Uk/Ireland group company parentage but technically offshore companies for their internet stuff. Because of Govt internet censorship of gambling fims here in UAE I can only deal with these firms via a proxy server which bypasses the UAE's website blocking systems.

This proxy is routed through USA (Palo Alto located I think) and when I first opened the accounts and transferred the money (via one credit card issued by a Dubai bank and another issued by a Uk bank) each betting firms' technical departments pretty quickly picked up the fact that "my" IP address appeared to indicate that I was located at a computer in USA and as a result they temporarily suspended my account until they could clarify that the money was not going to originate in USA. After verifying that the money did not come from USA they had no real interest in where I was located other than to confirm my identity. Obviously there were no USA located firewalls preventing the bets being placed and only the discipline and policies of the gambling firms and banks were actually providing any controls.

Obviously they now know where I live but I got the distinct impression that they would not have prevented me betting with them even if I lived in USA provided I could verify that I had no intention of trying to transfer money to them from a bank in USA.

 

[jason]

trick shot and speed pool take away from the sport, period! i guess thats why we dont see flag football on tv...any football isnt necessarily good football.

Doesn't basketball have the slam dunk and 3 point contest? Baseball the all-star game and home run derby? I really don't think they hurt the sport, but provide a form of side show entertainment.

 

[JoeyA]

Mike,

You are basically confirming what I am saying. The USA is not using a firewall now and they can't control gambling now. There are easy work arounds so that US citizens keep right on gambling with pretty much anyone they want to.

What I am saying is to control gambling a firewall would be required.

Hu

You mean to tell me that the government couldn't simply keep up with the amount of money coming in and going out for U.S. gambling companies without them using a firewall. I'm not talking about controlling gambling, only making sure that Uncle Same gets his juice.
JoeyA

 

[Mark Griffin]

I'll be sure to look you up at DCC Mark. Stay tuned to this thread.

It's always nice talking to you but I really want to play you some even up one pocket for a c note a game. Whatever I win from you I'll shoot back at Greg. :grin-devilish:
What I meant to say is IF I WIN ANYTHING FROM YOU, I will shoot it all at Greg. :-(
JoeyA (the Scoundrel)

Joey-Joey-Joey!

It has been so long since I have played ANY pool that I would need a lot of weight - (maybe more than Doug).

I would love to be able to play you BUT I have to give myself a chance to win.

See you at the DCC

mark griffin

 

[Pushout]

Pool's not exciting to watch unless you have a real rooting interest for one competitor or the other. You have to be mentally invested in a certain player winning to get really interested (e.g., Fats vs. Mosconi).

Interesting. I know that I became much more interested in watching NFL games after I started and ran {for 7 years} a fantasy football league. I'm not saying that a fantasy league for pool players would work, just that I understand the vested interest thing. I had Barry Sanders most of those years and watched the awful Lions often.
I honestly don't know what it would take. You might have to get more players better known on a national or international level and create a game that would generate interest. Maybe something like Razzle, where the lowest numbered ball has to be only moved, not made.
I really think there is something to be said for the rooting interest.

 

[ShootingArts]

post #38

You mean to tell me that the government couldn't simply keep up with the amount of money coming in and going out for U.S. gambling companies without them using a firewall. I'm not talking about controlling gambling, only making sure that Uncle Same gets his juice.
JoeyA

Joey, I have been responding to what you said here in post #38 and what JohnnyT said in post #40.

Since we don't want our dollars leaving the country any faster than they are already flying out right now, maybe the new leaders might make the decision that only corporations owned by American citizens can offer Internet Gambling. That way, the government could be guaranteed their vigorish and that's what it really is all about.

What you are suggesting here can't be done without a national firewall.

The US can somewhat control US companies operating inside the US and get at least some of their cut. What they can't control without a firewall and all internet access in the USA going through government controlled gateway servers is what gambling sites outside the US choose to do. The government captures many times the data it can actually process and is then forced to sample it now. No way can they dedicate the resources needed to monitor every individual gambler in the US to keep us from gambling overseas. A firewall is possible however and the government can restrict data transfer any way they choose to with a firewall just as many entities do now ranging from small companies and schools through large corporations and some countries.

The US would become a large Wide Area Network with only a few trunks connecting it to the internet and each trunk would have a gateway server and firewall. I understand that China does this now.

Hu

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

And, Don't Let Him Get You Drinking WINE......... Oy-Vey !

I'll be sure to look you up at DCC Mark. Stay tuned to this thread.

It's always nice talking to you but I really want to play you some even up one pocket for a c note a game. Whatever I win from you I'll shoot back at Greg. :grin-devilish:
What I meant to say is IF I WIN ANYTHING FROM YOU, I will shoot it all at Greg. :-(
JoeyA (the Scoundrel)

Make sure to to play Greg Sullivan the way that I played him. I got to use both hands and he shot one-handed using only 2 fingers to hold his cue (he cheats a little by letting the butt rest against his palm, but he can't get there). Even I beat him for $50.

All that I can say about Mark Griffin is what Amarillo Slim used to say, "All Trappers Don't Wear Fur Hats"...... proceed with caution.

Doug

 

[Ironman317]

Doesn't basketball have the slam dunk and 3 point contest? Baseball the all-star game and home run derby? I really don't think they hurt the sport, but provide a form of side show entertainment.

yes but these events usually occur on an annual basis. there is almost a trick shot magic tour for pool. maybe the NBA will start a HORSE tour...

 

[Jack Madden]

The title was just to capture your attention.

A friend and I were discussing pool and what was needed to make it more attractive.

FTR, my friend is an attorney and he said all you have to do is look at television to determine what the viewing public wants to see and it is hands-down, the scoundrel. With all of the reality programs you can see that it is the villains, divas and beatches that garner the most attention.

I think for the average television viewer, they would probably rather watch Minnesota Fats badgering an opponent than watching Willie Mosconi run 125 balls of straight pool. Nothing much has changed I guess. Thinking about this, I have always wished for pool to become a little more straight laced with less treachery but am starting to be swayed to the dark side. Trying to improve pool's image has done absolutely no good for the last 40 years so why not just let pool get down in the gutter and let the mud fly?

How about you?

JoeyA ink:

In sports who gets the sponsors/MAIN STREAM TV and the BIG $$$ PAYOUTS ????

GOLF and TENNIS

You see no betting between players or side. Any behavior other than gentleman and lady is FINED.

Pool needs to walk a thin line between entertainment/excitement (for the average viewer) and good sportsmanship/role model to get to TV and big payouts.

 

[JimS]

In sports who gets the sponsors/MAIN STREAM TV and the BIG $$$ PAYOUTS ????

GOLF and TENNIS

You see no betting between players or side. Any behavior other than gentleman and lady is FINED.

Pool needs to walk a thin line between entertainment/excitement (for the average viewer) and good sportsmanship/role model to get to TV and big payouts.

I don't think young people watch golf and tennis on TV. They watch Jerry Springer and reality shows and they'd watch pool if it was raunchy, crude and tasteless. Young people don't like manners. People over 40 like manners but not the kids and it's the kids that'll get the commercial dollars. Controversy and curdeness sells. I don't like it but it does sell. Get players with mucho tats wearing muscle shirts and have them swing cues at each other when they get pis$$ed off. That will sell. Parents will tell their kids they can't ever go near the ph and the kids will flock to the ph.

TV may be dead anyway. Pool on the internet will be the money venue in the future.

 

[memikey]

Mike,

You are basically confirming what I am saying. The USA is not using a firewall now and they can't control gambling now. There are easy work arounds so that US citizens keep right on gambling with pretty much anyone they want to.

What I am saying is to control gambling a firewall would be required.

Hu

Yes Hu, I am. Didn't intend to give any impression I was disagreeing with you in that respect. The standard of articulation in my posts will probably increase in direct proportion to the gradual dissipation of Xmas and New Year alcohol toxins from my body

 

[softshot]

Viewers are viewers whether they are the young punks or old geezers. And more punks watch tv than geezers...

sell me some of the crack you are smoking.. young punks could care less about TV ...

between the PlayStation, the Computer and the new head implanted cell phone...TV is soooo out dated...

intelligent affluent people used to actually care about NBC's new fall line up .. now if you grab 10 people off of the street I think you'd have a 50/50 chance of finding one person who knows whats on NBC tonight..

me... I catch sportscenter once a day... and discovery channel as I fall asleep... I watch some football games... but honestly the channel that gets the most ratings in my house is the Weather Channel..

Pool needs to realize TV left us in the dust years ago...

and now that the dust has cleared... we should realize that we don't need them... I'd rather watch a live stream over whats on my TV


once we get a live stream in HD that looks good on the 46" widescreen.. then WE will be in buisiness..

POOL needs to remember it's not 1979 anymore... live in the NOW...

TV is past tense... move on already

BTW.. I am GEN X I was the MTV generation....now I am 40 and I don't watch TV... I'd rather play pool

 

[Flex]

I would hate to see pool represented by stupid, shallow ball-bangers.

Yeah, it would be cool to have a spitfire like Fats around these days, (How 'bout EARL??)maybe an Ali, generating some real entertainment, but that's something that has to come about naturally.

And on a final note: Reality TV is not something that should be encouraged.

You want spitfire, he's there...