Pool has a "FATAL FLAW"

Wags said:
That statement should say alot to anyone doing pro events. Just where do you think the players come from. There is a disconnect in the game. There is a disconnect in the equipment. There is a disconnect with the atitude.

RO's can't control the game most customers play, yet I bet most customers play 8-ball. RO's are at the base level with the players. Yet, promoters/TDs don't listen to what they are saying and continue on the path to failure. There is a reason amateur 8-ball events draw big crowds. There is a connection between the game and the players. There is a reason that the Valley International Junior tournament draws big crowds playing 8-ball on a bar table and the BEF is relatively small playing 9-ball on a 9 footer.

The pro games of 9-ball, 10-ball, one-pocket are a disconnect from the mainstream. Worse yet, it is played on equipment that few RO's would even have in their room. It just wouldn't get played on.

Paul is correct. Except for a very small percentage of customers, the pros and the shows they put on are worthless to the room and their customers.
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I follow your thought process here. Especially regarding 8-ball. It clearly is the most popular game in my part of the world.

I wonder about the 8-footer vs the 9-footer factor though. All we have here locally is 9-footers, with a few exceptions. And in the one room that has both 8's and 9's, whenever the 9's open up, whoever is playing on an 8' moves over immediately. Happened just this past Sunday evening, a couple of times. And we're talking bangers and league players here.

Maybe it's because it's all most anyone here knows, but I personally FAR prefer playing on a 9-footer. And I certainly am just a league-playing banger.
 
I like the Fatal Flaw. Miserack was in a money match (can't remember name) and Steve ran 13 racks in a row. His opponent then said, let's double the bet.

It don't get any better than that! Nothing like having your opponent sitting his butt in a chair while you just keep shooting and shooting and shooting and taking his money.

My friend, think your analysis has a 'Fatal Flaw' - it doesn't consider the gambling aspect of pool - and what other fracking sport has the gambling piece? Ask the gamblers if they care what the crowd thinks.
 
SlickRick_PCS said:
This post is a FAIL: You don't know me and should be left as is.

Yea, I like the fact that you "like things the way they are". I have always been told that if you are not really careful, the "Good Enoughs" can become the enemy of "The Best". You, sir, just want things to be good enough. You just thrive on seeing things to be half-assed. I can only assume that your life leads the way you comment. Good luck with that, because I believe there needs to be a change for the better (or THE BEST, as I should say :cool:).
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Who the hell are you to judge me or my posts? You clearly don't have a handle on what I'm trying to say.

Just because Pro-pool doesn't have a higher profile in the publics mind doesn't mean the game is flawed.

People play pool to be competative, maybe even the best (as you so inaccurately pointed out). It doesn't matter that the only people that are watching are other pool players.

If you think that's a problem, then you go solve it. Quit sniffing the farts off my posts.
 
Wags said:
RO's can't control the game most customers play,
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This is exactly right. We do not get to decide what the general public and the pros will play. They decide. They rule. We can keep all the games we have. At the same time, we are in desperate need of a game that has broad based appeal that interests novices and pros alike. Golf has it. Bowling has it. We need to have it. This is the puzzle.

I am pointing my finger directly at our refusal to let go of the fatal flaw for being the reason for our 150 years of game jumping, searching for the holy grail that will deliver us to the promised land.
 
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i understood your point, was just expanding on another point that was made in this point, which i could relate to and agree with. i did not intend to create a parallel thread here, my bad.
 
Paul Schofield said:
This is exactly right. We do not get to decide what the general public and the pros will play. They decide. They rule. We can keep all the games we have. At the same time, we are in desperate need of a game that has broad based appeal that interests novices and pros alike. Golf has it. Bowling has it. We need to have it. This is the puzzle.

I am pointing my finger directly at our refusal to let go of the fatal flaw for being the reason for our 150 years of game jumping.
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IMO :) i don't see how any new games can possibly out-sell 8 ball. there are a very large number of players who play 8 ball regularly. that is the game they understand. trying to sell them a new game is a losing endeavor. Wouldn't it be better to try to build up the popularity of 8 ball, than to introduce a new game that will detract from it's popularity?

It's like Bill Gates saying, we're not doing good enough, let's come out with something that will do better than Windows. Why not just do more advertizing for Windows instead, right? (bad analogy since Windows is a huge success, but just making a point)
 
I found a fatal flaw with this forum already, letting an idiot named slickrick_pcs n negative rep me for my simple opinion, and i think you guys will get a laugh at of what he put in his comment- " your comment is bigot and stupid / go to hell...."

you mean bigoted slickrick? talk about irony huh.
 
pool is fundamentaly a great game and as such has no "inherant flaw"

the flaw lies in how it's run and the ammount of funding involved

it comes down to the circle of money thing, good management and a well thoughtout plan that works for all those involved, it has to be worth it for everyone to be successful and sustainable
 
12squared said:
Speaking of new league formats, check this one out that Melissa Little created: http://www.15rack.com/15rack/Home.html. 15 innings/racks of the 10 ball ghost basically that is hadicapped based on score sheets.
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I can attest to this being a fun league. At least it is something new & innovative based on an old time practice technique.

My fatal flaw is not focusing and committing enough time to be a better player. I see no issues with pool until I can successfully string long racks and consistently beat the best players in the area. Until then, it's an enjoyable, beautiful game/sport with much to learn.

And just to comment on golf as an analogy, there is defense in golf. It's called the golf course (i.e. sand traps, water, rough, etc). That's not even taking weather conditions into account.

Ultimately, pool will never be a big spectator sport in the US. There is too much emphasis on instant gratification in our culture nowadays. Pool doesn't have an 80 yard bomb for a touchdown or a 3-pointer at the buzzer or a walk-off home run. The closest comparison would be a 9-ball break for a win and that's really not all that flashy and it's luck.

There is a demographic for pool, just don't expect it ever to crack into the top 20 sports that Americans love to watch with the way our sports culture has been shaped. The only way I could possibly see pool rising as a popular sport is you have to start with our youth like soccer has been attempting for the last couple of decades. Parents would need facilities that they could have their kids trained at with dedicated instructors, and somehow the perceived shadiness of pool would have to be removed. Gambling would definitely have to be toned down.
 
Firecracker said:
Hi Paul,

In Dallas, there is a new league that was created and formed by one of the guys behind OB Cues called Pool-300. It combines rotation with straight pool and allows each player chances at the table to see who can win the round. Each player racks the balls the same way, gets the same chance to break, then take their turn at the table to try and run out. It is scored like bowling and each player gets 3 innings in a round to try and make the best score with their handicap. For me, as a more advanced player, it really helps with the my focus and patterns. Against the lower ranked players, I have to play to my level each time I step up to the table to win, if I slack off at all, I lose. It's very easy to handicap and the handicap is very true to the player, as it continually adjusts each time they play a match. Check out their website and let me know what you think - www.pool300.com

Tara
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Tara - I did scored game leagues in the early 80's. It started out so promising but after three years, the players came to me and asked that I not run the league again. They wanted to play interactive games. I thought I had discovered the wheel. I can't tell you how disappointed I was. I have often wondered if my version of scored game or my league function was missing a component, and that caused it to fail. I am looking at the website to see what pool300 has that I did not. I see a number of differences. I am very interested in hearing how it goes in the coming years. I am very interested in learning why mine failed. I am also aware of a venture called 6pocket which is also a scored game. I would really like to know how they are doing. Maybe he is following this thread and he can let us know. Thanks for the link. Paul
 
Derek said:
...And just to comment on golf as an analogy, there is defense in golf. It's called the golf course (i.e. sand traps, water, rough, etc). That's not even taking weather conditions into account.
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The defense you speak of in golf is exactly like that in pool. As golf has bunkers, out of bounds, and rough; so pool has problem clusters, balls blocking pockets and position lanes, balls sitting on the rail near the side pocket etc. The comparison is that in neither game does the competitor play an active defense while the other player is at the table playing offense. Actually pool has more defense than golf because in pool a player can play a safety as defense to the opposing player whereas golf has no such defensive minded strategy. While in both games the "defense" you refer to are mainly inherent in the field of play, in pool some of these can be created by a defensive shot. This doesn't occur in golf. Also, over the course of a 4 round tournament the "defense" a player faces is essentially the same for each hole whereas the problems that may need to be solved in a table layout is different every single rack.
 
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supergreenman said:
Who the hell are you to judge me or my posts? You clearly don't have a handle on what I'm trying to say.

Just because Pro-pool doesn't have a higher profile in the publics mind doesn't mean the game is flawed.

People play pool to be competative, maybe even the best (as you so inaccurately pointed out). It doesn't matter that the only people that are watching are other pool players.

If you think that's a problem, then you go solve it. Quit sniffing the farts off my posts.
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YOU GOT IT! :thumbup:


note the green, Green. That's exactly what you're comments are: FOUL!
 
scrappy said:
pool is fundamentaly a great game and as such has no "inherant flaw"

the flaw lies in how it's run and the ammount of funding involved

it comes down to the circle of money thing, good management and a well thoughtout plan that works for all those involved, it has to be worth it for everyone to be successful and sustainable
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Ding, ding, ding.... we have a winner! :thumbup:
 
justadub said:
I follow your thought process here. Especially regarding 8-ball. It clearly is the most popular game in my part of the world.

I wonder about the 8-footer vs the 9-footer factor though. All we have here locally is 9-footers, with a few exceptions. And in the one room that has both 8's and 9's, whenever the 9's open up, whoever is playing on an 8' moves over immediately. Happened just this past Sunday evening, a couple of times. And we're talking bangers and league players here.

Maybe it's because it's all most anyone here knows, but I personally FAR prefer playing on a 9-footer. And I certainly am just a league-playing banger.
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I also enjoy the 9 footer for my table of choice. But we are talking about the betterment of sport at an organized level. May in Las Vegas, all the national league tournaments, is all about 8-ball on the bar box.
 
If pool is right, it works for everybody, everywhere, every time. It works for novices. It works for pros. It works for room owners. It works for tournament promoters. It works for league operators. It works for cue manufacturers. It works for table manufacturers. And it also works when the economy goes south.

We are an unpopular game in tough economic times. If our game is going to make it (or even survive) it won't be in its current form. Our competitors are leaving us in the dust. We need to beat them at the battle for recreational attention (and dollar).

I say "nonsense" to anyone who says we cannot compete.
 
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"Fatal Flaw" pool ?

What I find amazing is on TV, I see a pool table almost every day! Where, you ask....as a back drop for all kinds of different TV commercials !!! They show people drinking and having fun and many other environs. Those of you that don't "Tivo" (record TV programs in order to fast- forward through the commercials), will see what I mean.
WHY, the pool community doesn't tap into those companies using pool as a backdrop, is beyond me ???
F.Y.I.

Paul Schofield said:
If pool is right, it works for everybody, everywhere, every time. It works for novices. It works for pros. It works for room owners. It works for tournament promoters. It works for league operators. It works for cue manufacturers. It works for table manufacturers. And it also works when the economy goes south.

We are an unpopular game in tough economic times. If our game is going to make it (or even survive) it won't be in its current form. Our competitors are leaving us in the dust. We need to beat them at the battle for recreational attention (and dollar).

I say "nonsense" to anyone who says we cannot compete.
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Maniac said:
26 posts since this one and NOBODY thinks 15-ball rotation is a viable option?

Maniac
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Because it is more of the same and is the perfect example of what I am talking about. We are on this march to more and more difficult games and tougher equipment. This is not inclusive at all.
 
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