Pool Players that play the Ponies

[punter]

I don't know about todays players, but a lot of the pool players from years back also loved to gamble on horse racing. I used to see Danny Jones at the Louisiana tracks a lot, most of the trainers knew him well. Also, Jersey Red, I met him at Houston's track, he was a regular. Just wondering, if anyone has any stories on this subject. I know today, it's mostly poker, anyone want to tell what their favorite gamble is besides pool?

 

[ribdoner]

I don't know about todays players, but a lot of the pool players from years back also loved to gamble on horse racing. I used to see Danny Jones at the Louisiana tracks a lot, most of the trainers knew him well. Also, Jersey Red, I met him at Houston's track, he was a regular. Just wondering, if anyone has any stories on this subject. I know today, it's mostly poker, anyone want to tell what their favorite gamble is besides pool?[/QUOT


JOHNEY "the mexican" (CHI--60's/70's) was REAL strong at pool but weak as a pussey when it came to the ponies.

Spent his nights pillaging and plundering the bars/pool rooms only to unload (more often than not) at the track the next day.

Seems like he had trouble reading the tout sheets and often solicited help.

 

[DeadPoked]

I'm of the opinion that the further pool players can stay away from the tracks the better.

 

[8ballEinstein]

Ronnie Allen
Jose Parica
Keith McCready

 

[McKinneyMiner]

In his book Road Player, Danny DiLiberto spends a good deal of ink talking about the tracks that he has been to.

I suspect he more than knows his way around a pony oval.

 

[ShootingArts]

small difference

I wagered on the pool table and gambled on horses. There are about five major "ifs" betting the horses. The first if is if you handicapped the race correctly. The second if is if the trainer is turning the horse loose in this race or is it just a tune up for another race. The third if is if this is a cheaper race, have the jockeys chopped it up? The fourth if is if the horse is feeling like running today. The fifth if is if he will break the gates cleanly and get a clean run around the course.

About forty more "ifs" could be added to these. I knew trainers and jockeys by the dozen that were hardcore gamblers and every one that was deeply into betting on the horses didn't have a pot to pee in or a lid to cover it up with. If the people living on the track and working with the horses every day can't reliably get it right I figured my odds weren't the best. I did do pretty good betting the dogmeat races however. With a little luck involved I quit betting the horses when I was ahead, something very few can say.

Here is the picture from my running horse owner's license when I was a conservative businessman and pillar of the community back in the mid-eighties.

I don't know about todays players, but a lot of the pool players from years back also loved to gamble on horse racing. I used to see Danny Jones at the Louisiana tracks a lot, most of the trainers knew him well. Also, Jersey Red, I met him at Houston's track, he was a regular. Just wondering, if anyone has any stories on this subject. I know today, it's mostly poker, anyone want to tell what their favorite gamble is besides pool?

 

[jay helfert]

In his book Road Player, Danny DiLiberto spends a good deal of ink talking about the tracks that he has been to.

I suspect he more than knows his way around a pony oval.

Danny could pick the dogs pretty good though. Probably still can, since he's an old dog himself.

He once took me to a dog track in Arizona to bet on one particular dog in a race. We lost about 200 on the races leading up to that one, won 380 on "his" dog, and then lost another couple of hundred after that race. We leave the track and Danny is telling me how good he knew his dogs. I had to point out that we lost money.

 

[jay helfert]

I wagered on the pool table and gambled on horses. There are about five major "ifs" betting the horses. The first if is if you handicapped the race correctly. The second if is if the trainer is turning the horse loose in this race or is it just a tune up for another race. The third if is if this is a cheaper race, have the jockeys chopped it up? The fourth if is if the horse is feeling like running today. The fifth if is if he will break the gates cleanly and get a clean run around the course.

About forty more "ifs" could be added to these. I knew trainers and jockeys by the dozen that were hardcore gamblers and every one that was deeply into betting on the horses didn't have a pot to pee in or a lid to cover it up with. If the people living on the track and working with the horses every day can't reliably get it right I figured my odds weren't the best. I did do pretty good betting the dogmeat races however. With a little luck involved I quit betting the horses when I was ahead, something very few can say.

Here is the picture from my running horse owner's license when I was a conservative businessman and pillar of the community back in the mid-eighties.

The best tip I ever got was to stay close to the windows and bet any horse that the Odds drop on substantially in the last few minutes. Forget about reading any forms or anything else. Just watch the Tote board!

Hey, weren't you on America's Most Wanted last week?

 

[ShootingArts]

Naaah, that was on the post office wall!

The best tip I ever got was to stay close to the windows and bet any horse that the Odds drop on substantially in the last few minutes. Forget about reading any forms or anything else. Just watch the Tote board!

Hey, weren't you on America's Most Wanted last week?

Only in America. I was an unwanted child now I am wanted in fifty states and the District of Columbia!

Knowing the people the big trainers used a runners and watching the $50 and $100 windows worked pretty good. Watching the odds change works but you also have to know the owners of the horse. Some will bet a no-hoper big crashing the odds. There were about three or four strong indicators I watched for in the dogmeat races along with looking at the condition of the horse. Of course if you don't know the condition the horse was in when he ran his previous races the way he looks today doesn't mean much.

The best tip I can give on horses: Put your gambling money in your front pocket before the first race and never ever reach for your wallet!

Danny and the dogs reminds me of my neighbor and the ponies. His father was one of the biggest bookies in the state and he often got a phone call about a boat race. Even so he often lost money at the track. There were another nine or ten races too.

Hu

 

[DeadPoked]

I wagered on the pool table and gambled on horses. There are about five major "ifs" betting the horses. The first if is if you handicapped the race correctly. The second if is if the trainer is turning the horse loose in this race or is it just a tune up for another race. The third if is if this is a cheaper race, have the jockeys chopped it up? The fourth if is if the horse is feeling like running today. The fifth if is if he will break the gates cleanly and get a clean run around the course.

About forty more "ifs" could be added to these. I knew trainers and jockeys by the dozen that were hardcore gamblers and every one that was deeply into betting on the horses didn't have a pot to pee in or a lid to cover it up with. If the people living on the track and working with the horses every day can't reliably get it right I figured my odds weren't the best. I did do pretty good betting the dogmeat races however. With a little luck involved I quit betting the horses when I was ahead, something very few can say.

Here is the picture from my running horse owner's license when I was a conservative businessman and pillar of the community back in the mid-eighties.

Hmmm... Let me guess you were going through the serial killer phase?

 

[ShootingArts]

winter

Hmmm... Let me guess you were going through the serial killer phase?

That was just my winter pelt. Between horses and my business I spent a lot of time outdoors in all weather. I rarely cut my hair or trimmed my beard from late August until well into April or May and it wasn't too short in the summer.

Oddly enough looking at that image, I really was a pillar of the community working with the city, state, and sheriff LEO's and well respected in a small city of about fifty thousand.

Hu

 

[jimmyg]

Spent some time ages ago at Yonkers and Rooselvelt Raceways (trotters) with my former brother-in-law, who lived there for awhile. He knew all the big and mid time regulars there. Quite a few would show up loaded with cash and a system for a period of time before disappearing after they ran broke.. then after putting together another roll they'd return and try again.

One system that a pair of players had some success with was very interesting to watch. A few minutes before the the bell the two of them would wind up being the last ones at the $100 windows. Don't know how familiar everyone is with the way they start the trotters, but essentially they have a car with an extended starting gate that the horses run behind and just before the starting line the car takes off, withdraws the extensions and the horses take off a short distance before they actually reach the starting line. Well, these guys would stand at the $100 watch as the car pulled away and yell the number of the front running horse to the cooperating parimutual clerks who would punch out as many $100 tickets that they were able to until the horses crosses the starting line (about 5-10 seconds) and the machines would automatically shut down. I guess the clerks were able to punch out a bunch of tickets, for a nice tip, of course.

These guys did pretty well with this system for quite a while, but, alas, after a few weeks they too disappeared. The front runners win sometimes, but definitely not always. Came back a few more times, busted and disappeared again.

Lesson I learned long time ago: Systems do not work forever. Most gamblers don't even care about winning or losing, they just need the action.

Jim

 

[punter]

Things have changed

Watching the odds change works but you also have to know the owners of the horse. Some will bet a no-hoper big crashing the odds. There were about three or four strong indicators I watched for in the dogmeat races along with looking at the condition of the horse. Of course if you don't know the condition the horse was in when he ran his previous races the way he looks today doesn't mean much.

The best tip I can give on horses: Put your gambling money in your front pocket before the first race and never ever reach for your wallet!

Danny and the dogs reminds me of my neighbor and the ponies. His father was one of the biggest bookies in the state and he often got a phone call about a boat race. Even so he often lost money at the track. There were another nine or ten races too.

Hu

Things are a little different now at the track. First there is simulcasting, so instead of 9 to 10 races, you have 9 to 10 races at 10+ tracks to choose from. I handicap with the racing form, but now days, they also have a video terminal at the track where I can go punch in the info and pull up old races and and watch them, so instead of just a line in the racing form I can view the actual race from the past performances (helps in seeing troubled trips). Also, most tracks these days also have slot machines. The purses for the races are supplemented from slot revenues which leads to much higher average purses than in the past. So it's much easier for the owners/trainers/jockeys to make a good living without the cheating. I'm sure it still happens some, but way less than used to occur.

 

[Johnnyt]

The best tip I ever got was to stay close to the windows and bet any horse that the Odds drop on substantially in the last few minutes. Forget about reading any forms or anything else. Just watch the Tote board!
This works pretty good at the cheap tracks. Johnnyt
Hey, weren't you on America's Most Wanted last week?

This works pretty good at the cheap horse tracks. Johnnyt

 

[freddy the beard]

Mexican Johnny Vasquez

(Quote Ribdoner) JOHNNY "the mexican" (CHI--60's/70's) was REAL strong at pool but weak as a pussy when it came to the ponies. Spent his nights pillaging and plundering the bars/pool rooms only to unload (more often than not) at the track the next day. Seems like he had trouble reading the tout sheets and often solicited help.[/QUOTE]


You're right. Johnny was illiterate, couldn't read or write. However, he loved the horses so much he taught himself how to read the racing form! Those of you that have opened a racing form certainly realize how much more difficult it would be to read it, rather than normal writing, what with all the abbreviations and symbols. Johnny left Chicago because he had borrowed $200 from an Outfit Juice Man named Al Milstein, and couldnt make his weekly payment. Johnny was so well liked by the Chicago gamblers that the Juice Man put the word out that if Johnny returned to Chicago, Al would totally forgive the debt. Milstein's rep as a bone breaker was well known, and even though in this case he probably did mean well, Johnny didn't believe him and never returned.

the Beard

 

[ShootingArts]

could be

Off track betting and betting on the races at other tracks was just getting common when I quit racing. Racing was as much about the race track as it was about the gambling for me so I have never set foot in an off track parlor. Being able to watch the old races would be great when wondering what happened to a horse in a poor outing. Some of the other gambling proceeds going to the purses would be great too. Odds used to get knocked down so low on my first choice that I often bet my second choice or even third choice across in the hope that they would come in a little better than I expected and I usually broke even or close to it if they at least showed.

The jockeys used to chop up one cheap race a day to survive, wouldn't be surprised if it was still common. A few jockeys make big money but for many it is hard work, long hours, and little pay. They would all put up a few bucks or so on a fairly long shot in a race, have someone place the bet, and then make very sure the longshot won. Hard to believe that the racing commission wasn't at least suspicious but they never dug into it as long as it just happened in one cheap claimer a day. Best I remember it was $35 dollars a ride for the jockey, 10% if he won. Ten to twenty to ride work and usually a small tip from the owner if he was there. Up at four or earlier to ride work, maybe riding late into the evening, a jockey's life is a lot of fun and glamour! A trainer at least knows he can make ends meet if he is good and can manage money.

Hu

Things are a little different now at the track. First there is simulcasting, so instead of 9 to 10 races, you have 9 to 10 races at 10+ tracks to choose from. I handicap with the racing form, but now days, they also have a video terminal at the track where I can go punch in the info and pull up old races and and watch them, so instead of just a line in the racing form I can view the actual race from the past performances (helps in seeing troubled trips). Also, most tracks these days also have slot machines. The purses for the races are supplemented from slot revenues which leads to much higher average purses than in the past. So it's much easier for the owners/trainers/jockeys to make a good living without the cheating. I'm sure it still happens some, but way less than used to occur.

 

[Oddball]

The best tip I ever got was to stay close to the windows and bet any horse that the Odds drop on substantially in the last few minutes. Forget about reading any forms or anything else. Just watch the Tote board!

That is actually the "lemming money". Someone was trying to get good odds and place a big bet. The crowd sees it as an assumption of inside information. Bad play. The actual bet is the farm betting early and the odds open up about 50% of the morning line. They also put money in the doubles pool. A lot of times the hot horse will have a lower payoff in the double than the favorite.

I only play Belmont.
Main track: Dirt horses who ran badly on turf in their last race and is now returning to dirt. Works best on an off-track.
Turf: European imports when it is raining but the race has not been moved off the turf.
The Bridgejumper: Bet against the bridgejumper in the Show pool. If the bridgejumper horse fails to hit the board, the payoffs will be HUGE.

 

[SCCues]

That is actually the "lemming money". Someone was trying to get good odds and place a big bet. The crowd sees it as an assumption of inside information. Bad play. The actual bet is the farm betting early and the odds open up about 50% of the morning line. They also put money in the doubles pool. A lot of times the hot horse will have a lower payoff in the double than the favorite.

I only play Belmont.
Main track: Dirt horses who ran badly on turf in their last race and is now returning to dirt. Works best on an off-track.
Turf: European imports when it is raining but the race has not been moved off the turf.
The Bridgejumper: Bet against the bridgejumper in the Show pool. If the bridgejumper horse fails to hit the board, the payoffs will be HUGE.

Now this sounds like someone who knows what he's talking about. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

Johnny Ervolino swore to me that he was "the greatest handicapper" on the planet. All I could do was laugh and change the subject, protecting my bankroll.