Pool: Sport or Game -- Leroy Neiman (RIP) Knew the Answer

lfigueroa

lfigueroa

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Pool: Sport or Game -- LeRoy Neiman (RIP) Knew the Answer

LeRoy Neiman, celebrated American artist, passed yesterday. You can read his obit here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/a...ic-painter-of-sports-dies-at-91.html?_r=1&hpw

And if you look to the left of the story, under Multimedia, you will see an interactive feature that will let you view The LeRoy Neiman Mural that is to be installed at The Sports Museum of America as a "salute to sports." If you push the slide bar underneath to just past 3/4 of the way down the mural you might be surprised to see what is included :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
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Thanks for sharing. He was and art star, for sure.

We have a few Neiman originals hanging around my work building.
 
If Leroy Neiman considered it a sport I guess that settles it. :grin-square:

I believe that mural is actually a montage of individual works he did. I think I recognize a couple of them like that golf one of the player hitting his approach shot into the 18th at Riviera.

Wonder who/where is the pool one and if prints are available.

--------

Not sure why, but this question instills a lot of emotion and some just can't stand that pool might not be considered a sport. Why does it really matter? Personally I think it is a sport in the sense that unlike chess it requires hand/eye coordination and requires certain physical abilities. On the other hand so do darts and tiddlywinks. Certainly one doesn't have to be an athlete in the traditional sense to play it at a high level. But while I think it is a sport, if you don't that's cool with me.

I suppose it depends on one's definition of sport. According to Jim Rome one definition of a sport is, "Anything you get better at as you consume alcohol is not a sport." Numerous people here have said that for one reason or another they play better after a couple of drinks.

The one agenda that makes sense to me regarding classifying pool as a sport regards getting it in the Olympics. But that is just taking a stance in order to further an agenda.

Personally, I don't care that much whether it's a game or a sport - or both. It wouldn't diminish my affection for the art one way or the other. I love pool. :thumbup:
 
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Am always interested in the Olympics discussion.

Synchronised swimming? A sport?

Dressage? The horse does all the work.

Cycling? Is there a dirtier sport? Not to mention they get a machine to help.

Shooting? Lie on your belly and pull a trigger. More sporting than pool?

Roller skating? Really?

Pool?

Straight pool is, rotation is, one pocket is, 9 ball isn't.

How about hustling? Would be great to watch.

Ps. To the guy that mentioned darts, you can't miss double 16 by six inches and have it run safe. In darts you either hit what you are aiming at or you do not.

Pure skill and more of an Olympic sport than many other things.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
If Leroy Neiman considered it a sport I guess that settles it. :grin-square:

I believe that mural is actually a montage of individual works he did. I think I recognize a couple of them like that golf one of the player hitting his approach shot into the 18th at Riviera.

Wonder who/where is the pool one and if prints are available.

--------

Not sure why, but this question instills a lot of emotion and some just can't stand that pool might not be considered a sport. Why does it really matter? Personally I think it is a sport in the sense that unlike chess it requires hand/eye coordination and requires certain physical abilities. On the other hand so do darts and tiddlywinks. Certainly one doesn't have to be an athlete in the traditional sense to play it at a high level. But while I think it is a sport, if you don't that's cool with me.

I suppose it depends on one's definition of sport. According to Jim Rome one definition of a sport is, "Anything you get better at as you consume alcohol is not a sport." Numerous people here have said that for one reason or another they play better after a couple of drinks.

The one agenda that makes sense to me regarding classifying pool as a sport regards getting it in the Olympics. But that is just taking a stance in order to further an agenda.

Personally, I don't care that much whether it's a game or a sport - or both. It wouldn't diminish my affection for the art one way or the other. I love pool. :thumbup:
Click to expand...


It's a serigraph called "Pool Room." 350 prints with probably a few artist's proofs floating around. Retail nowadays it goes for $3-5K.

Lou Figueroa
bought mine for $500
back in the 70's
when it first came out :-)
 
Painting

If I'm correct about the painting you all
are talking about, the one that hung in
the Playboy Mansion pool room for so
many years, it is currently owned by
Centaur Galleries in Las Vegas, Nevada.

I have seen it there on a number of
occasions and have even thought about
how it would look in my room. Unless it
has been sold it hangs behind their cash
register in the mid section of the gallery.

It's not a particularly attractive piece in my
opinion and apparently a lot of others
because it was there and "available" for
a number of years.

If my memory serves me correctly it is
the original of "Bunnies Playing Pool" that is in
the gallery. There is another painting of his "Pool Room"
which was more popular.

Flintlock
 
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DogsPlayingPool said:
If Leroy Neiman considered it a sport I guess that settles it. :grin-square:

I believe that mural is actually a montage of individual works he did. I think I recognize a couple of them like that golf one of the player hitting his approach shot into the 18th at Riviera.

Wonder who/where is the pool one and if prints are available.

--------

Not sure why, but this question instills a lot of emotion and some just can't stand that pool might not be considered a sport. Why does it really matter? Personally I think it is a sport in the sense that unlike chess it requires hand/eye coordination and requires certain physical abilities. On the other hand so do darts and tiddlywinks. Certainly one doesn't have to be an athlete in the traditional sense to play it at a high level. But while I think it is a sport, if you don't that's cool with me.

I suppose it depends on one's definition of sport. According to Jim Rome one definition of a sport is, "Anything you get better at as you consume alcohol is not a sport." Numerous people here have said that for one reason or another they play better after a couple of drinks.

The one agenda that makes sense to me regarding classifying pool as a sport regards getting it in the Olympics. But that is just taking a stance in order to further an agenda.

Personally, I don't care that much whether it's a game or a sport - or both. It wouldn't diminish my affection for the art one way or the other. I love pool. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Mitchell

Here's one:

http://www.artbrokerage.com/artist/LeRoy-Neiman/Pool-Room-6231

to get an idea of what these things actually go for I have Neiman up this week that ArtBrokerage has estimated at $7,500 and you can sort of figure the ratio. Mine ends Sunday.

Kevin

PS: Oh lookie here an auction result:

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5648864

Of course, if you are just looking for something to hang in your pool room, there are reproduction lithos "signed in the stone" of most of his works (most of his hand signed and numbered works were serigraphs). The guy hitting into 18 at the Riv is part of a series of 4 prints named "Big Time Golf Suite".
 
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Billiards was actualy a lawn sport that was brought to the inside by Kings and Royalty. For extra bonus points what Lady of that time period had an Ivory cue?

The termonoligy Pool came from Pool Halls. This was a place where people were "Pooling" thier bets and to have something to do as bet results came in they played on Billiard tables both pocketed and unpocketed.

The only thing I did not like about the mural was it was the only sport the player had a cigerette dangling from his mouth, and I am a smoker.

It is truly a Sport and probably the First sport of Kings.

Our problem IMO is this, Straight Pool is to boring to watch (not to play) 9 Ball looks to easy as Pros make every shot (almost) in such position that any ball hitter could make the shot and fail to understand the concept of how the player figured where the cue ball was going to be to sink the 9 by the time they took the first shot.

I think if given education and a long enough run One Pocket could be as popular viewing as Snooker is in other Countries.

On the Olympics I feel they will vote Texas Hold em in before pool. I don't feel its right, it just is what it is.
 
Jodacus said:
If I'm correct about the painting you all
are talking about, the one that hung in
the Playboy Mansion pool room for so
many years, it is currently owned by
Centaur Galleries in Las Vegas, Nevada.

I have seen it there on a number of
occasions and have even thought about
how it would look in my room. Unless it
has been sold it hangs behind their cash
register in the mid section of the gallery.

It's not a particularly attractive piece in my
opinion and apparently a lot of others
because it was there and "available" for
a number of years.

If my memory serves me correctly it is
the original of "Bunnies Playing Pool" that is in
the gallery. There is another painting of his "Pool Room"
which was more popular.

Flintlock
Click to expand...


I think the one from the Playboy Mansion is a different one.

I've seen the one Centaur has and the Bunny one. There is also "Black Break" and the Mosconi sketches. And then there is another that is hard to come across that is kinda of a sideways shot of a pool table. I've only seen it once or twice, but that's a good one.

Lou Figueroa
 
An amusing pool-related Neiman vignette:

I was at a pro 14.1 tournament in NYC that featured top men and women players. I was sitting behind Neiman as he began sketching several nearby matches while sitting in the front row. He stood for a moment to chat with Alison Fisher who was ready to start her match. He introduced himself and appeared to ask her permission to sketch her at the table. As she was about to lag with her opponent, she walked back over to Neiman and said with a smile: "Try not to make me bum [cockney for arse] look too big."

Neiman and nearby spectators got a good laugh out of that, and he gave her a pleasant and reassuring nod that conveyed "I'll be extra careful, Honey."

A nice memory for me, and no doubt, Alison as well this week.

Arnaldo
 
Love his style:thumbup:
RIP Leroy!

There is a bar in Seattle that has a back bar of bottles that is about 12' tall and 20' wide. Bottles cheek to jowl.
They have a Nieman of it. Too cool!
 
TomHay said:
The termonoligy Pool came from Pool Halls. This was a place where people were "Pooling" thier bets and to have something to do as bet results came in they played on Billiard tables both pocketed and unpocketed.
Click to expand...

The legend is that gamblers pooled their bets on sporting events or whatever and while they waited for the results to come in by telegraph they played billiards and the term 'pool hall' originated from that. It's my opinion that this is false because I think the name 'pool' was around before there were any telegraphs.

Pocket billiards was at one time often played as a rotation game with numerous players who pooled their bets which created a pot for the winner of each game. It would only be natural that the game would come to be called pool, the location a pool hall and the name then stuck to later games which developed although there was no longer a pooled bet.

‘The Game of Billiards’ by Michael Phelan, for which a preface to the eleventh edition was written by him in 1873, referred to games of “Pool” that had been played decades earlier. Telegraphs did not become widely available in America until the 1870’s if even then.

Just my opinion.
 
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