Position or Shotmaking?
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
It's all about the cue ball and the imagination.
bezhermoso
New member
Grew up playing Philippine rotation and I would say that the person that is better at position play has the edge. You have to be more precise regarding cue ball trajectory and the final resting place of the cue ball especially during the first bunch of balls due to the higher amount of traffic. Caroms and billiards to pot, break up clusters, or set up position for the 2nd next shot are rather common when playing 15-ball rotation and being able to see these types of shots gives you a lot of advantage over someone who has more shot-making ability and less ability to see such shots.
po for show shots for drinking
80% Position Play, 20% Shot maker. Being proficient at position, makes having to be the big shot maker less frequent. It's more important if your pushed to having to make that big shot when needed, verses having to rely on the big shot on every shot you take.
Black Cat
Black Cat
If you are an average shot maker, you will lose some games that you could have won if you were a great shotmaker.
If you are an average position player, you will lose a lot more games than if you were a great position player.
A great shotmaker/poor position player will always be shooting while "in trouble". An average shotmaker/great position player will seldom be in trouble.
Getting in trouble costs games.
If you are an average position player, you will lose a lot more games than if you were a great position player.
A great shotmaker/poor position player will always be shooting while "in trouble". An average shotmaker/great position player will seldom be in trouble.
Getting in trouble costs games.
All the top players are good to great shotmakers. I see so far most agree it's the guys with pinpoint position that win more at the very top in 15 ball rotation. 20 years ago you could say the same thing about 9 and 10 ball...think Buddy Hall. Today the break has taken over in those two games. Remember I'm talking best in the world. I know there are a lot of important things that you need to know to make you a winner in the top crowd, but in 15 ball rotation IMO, position is the most important. Johnnyt
Is there an example of a top pro who shoots better than his position play?
Is there an example of a top pro with great position play but who can't come with the tough shot?
I personally believe both abilities are roughly equal in all the ranks.
Is there an example of a top pro with great position play but who can't come with the tough shot?
I personally believe both abilities are roughly equal in all the ranks.
IMO not in 15 ball ratation. Johnnyt
In pool you got to master pocketing and be able to make all 4000 shots possibilities first. Only then you can start to think and worry about position.
So position play is a must to be better,
Position back in line........................
Top players are only need one chance to get out espesially money players,thats a fact ,nowadays we can see it at youtube.
So if this one chance is a low percentage long shot they put the ball in the hole and get a good position or a so so position BUT at the next shot they are back in line for work.
Then IF it is winnerbreak format they break, make a ball and get a shot at the next one.
IF its a alternate break its another story more about amateurs (imho).
What im trying to say is that Top players do not poke and pray they only need one chance one mistake NOT two, cause they are playing position and when they need they are make hard shots(otherwise they play safe).
Great Thread Johny :thumbup:
Top players are only need one chance to get out espesially money players,thats a fact ,nowadays we can see it at youtube.
So if this one chance is a low percentage long shot they put the ball in the hole and get a good position or a so so position BUT at the next shot they are back in line for work.
Then IF it is winnerbreak format they break, make a ball and get a shot at the next one.
IF its a alternate break its another story more about amateurs (imho).
What im trying to say is that Top players do not poke and pray they only need one chance one mistake NOT two, cause they are playing position and when they need they are make hard shots(otherwise they play safe).
Great Thread Johny :thumbup:
replaying to the question
We all know that making the object ball is the bottom line. if the player can get good position on the object ball, to make that shot simpler & get good position on the next object ball, his task is easier.
A good Break Shot, with control for position on the first object ball, makes all this easier to do.
In my younger days, I learned position play pretty quick. The 7 ball spots down in the rack area & that's also where most of the red balls are. Making a few reds & sevens over takes lot of reds & 2s or 3s. Watching the pros play position in Snooker or 9 Ball is a great example fine play.
Watching a Pro with a good controlled break shot is pure joy...
We all know that making the object ball is the bottom line. if the player can get good position on the object ball, to make that shot simpler & get good position on the next object ball, his task is easier.
A good Break Shot, with control for position on the first object ball, makes all this easier to do.
In my younger days, I learned position play pretty quick. The 7 ball spots down in the rack area & that's also where most of the red balls are. Making a few reds & sevens over takes lot of reds & 2s or 3s. Watching the pros play position in Snooker or 9 Ball is a great example fine play.
Watching a Pro with a good controlled break shot is pure joy...
I agree with Neil.
If one can control the cue ball very well then there is hardly ever any need to be a great shotmaker but... when coming to the table after your opponent has left you in a difficult situation it pays to be a great shot maker or...a better safety player than your opponent.
If one can control the cue ball very well then there is hardly ever any need to be a great shotmaker but... when coming to the table after your opponent has left you in a difficult situation it pays to be a great shot maker or...a better safety player than your opponent.
Shot making comes earlier in player development than position play...
Shot making prowess is "sexier" side of the game, and more impressive to the non-pool initiated. While good position play is often overlooked by non-pool players for the skill and finesse it requires, they just see a player shooting what looks like a bunch of easy shots. Obviously, if you're a regular on this forum you know better....
To play this game at the highest levels, you need to master both skill sets.
Shot making prowess is "sexier" side of the game, and more impressive to the non-pool initiated. While good position play is often overlooked by non-pool players for the skill and finesse it requires, they just see a player shooting what looks like a bunch of easy shots. Obviously, if you're a regular on this forum you know better....
To play this game at the highest levels, you need to master both skill sets.
Shotmaking is the most important. If you learn how to pocket balls not only with center ball, but pocket them with different kinds of spin and stroke then you will be able to learn good position play. If you play the cue ball with proper spin and stroke you need for position, it doesn't mean you will pocket the object ball.
Ron Swanson
Banned
Will SOMEONE hurry up and ask naji to explain that 4000 shot nonsense, please? And will someone then translate his explanation into english?
your vision is always there, your shotmaking isn't
Position play includes seeing patterns to be able to play position. That perception of patterns is always there once you master it, assuming you are in a condition fit to play. Some days even the greatest shot makers are a little bit off and they are only very good shot makers. Too, even great ones bobble when they keep having to come with great shots over and over.
With good position play angles do much or all of the work getting to the next shot that people with weaker position skills rely on spin to take care of. Less side spin makes shots easier. Shooting easier shots most of the time the position player may have to shoot a great shot only a few times a set while a great shot maker with poor position play is much more reliant on having to make the big play over and over.
Great shots, big plays, hero moves passing on a racetrack, they all carry a large element of risk. Succeed and you are a hero, fail and you often hand victory to your opponent.
I have to admit that I have never seen a great position player that wasn't a very good shot maker or a great shot maker that wasn't a pretty good position player. To be very very good at either one requires putting in the hours on the table. Putting the hours in on the table means you are likely to be pretty good at both.
In the long grind I would always bet the stronger position player over the great shot maker with both just slightly behind in the other skill. The stronger position player is better able to control the table. When you find a great shot maker and great position player you get The Magician.
Hu
Position play includes seeing patterns to be able to play position. That perception of patterns is always there once you master it, assuming you are in a condition fit to play. Some days even the greatest shot makers are a little bit off and they are only very good shot makers. Too, even great ones bobble when they keep having to come with great shots over and over.
With good position play angles do much or all of the work getting to the next shot that people with weaker position skills rely on spin to take care of. Less side spin makes shots easier. Shooting easier shots most of the time the position player may have to shoot a great shot only a few times a set while a great shot maker with poor position play is much more reliant on having to make the big play over and over.
Great shots, big plays, hero moves passing on a racetrack, they all carry a large element of risk. Succeed and you are a hero, fail and you often hand victory to your opponent.
I have to admit that I have never seen a great position player that wasn't a very good shot maker or a great shot maker that wasn't a pretty good position player. To be very very good at either one requires putting in the hours on the table. Putting the hours in on the table means you are likely to be pretty good at both.
In the long grind I would always bet the stronger position player over the great shot maker with both just slightly behind in the other skill. The stronger position player is better able to control the table. When you find a great shot maker and great position player you get The Magician.
Hu
Old Nine Baller
Banned
Yes, but we are not allowed to mention His Holiness's name for the rest of this year.
ONB