I totally got that joke. Yup, New York Symphony Orchestra is not an easy ticket to get into. One flaw on your instrument (yea that's right, a "squeek" on the reed) and your butt is out!
Practice Makes Perfect... No Not Really.
- Thread starter bigshooter
- Start date
I totally got that joke. Yup, New York Symphony Orchestra is not an easy ticket to get into. One flaw on your instrument (yea that's right, a "squeek" on the reed) and your butt is out!
First off I should say I don't think I'd be an A player on a fullsize table, I have not played on a 9 footer enough to consistently get out. I play mostly on 7' foot Diamonds. No books or instructional videos, but I have watched many pro matches on youtube. I learned a ton from watching the top players play position. I had the cue ball on a string before I could run 5 balls. I play often at a bar near my house and there are no good players there. So to even things out and make the game fun, I spin the ball a lot and look for opportunities to use a big stroke. Anyone can aim at a spot and roll a ball to it... what makes pocketing balls difficult is determining squirt, swerve, and throw in relation to power, right? So if you spend a lot of time developing a strong feel for squirt/swerve/throw by being a "banger," it only makes sense that you would learn faster, in my opinion. I'm not saying I slam balls around non stop, I just try to run racks while keeping my eyes open for ways to practice my game AND my stroke. I watch guys run racks and stay in perfect line, shoot solid. Then they dog a shot that I would consider easy because they had to put a big stroke on it. It only makes sense to practice the more difficult aspects of the game. To make a long story short, I shoot difficult strokes more often than I have to in order to get more return from my practice; as I'm sure many of you AZer's do.
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Woah woah I didn't say that, and I do practice safeties. I try to practice everything that comes up in a game. I'm just saying that through practicing some slam ball, I am as comfortable with my power stroke as I am rolling the ball, and that is obviously a beneficial trait to have in your game. I feel like most missed balls are the shots requiring a big spin stroke... it only makes sense to practice them, right? Everyone has their own way of progressing their game, and I do respect your opinion and insight.
I'm trying to say this in the least dick-ish way possible, but based on what I'm reading here I'm not sure you're actually an A player, by most standards. No offense intended. I find my definition of "A" and "pro" keeps changing over the years.
It just would be very hard to develop the shooting accuracy needed to play A speed, when you're shooting on a 7 footer with fewer distance shots and relatively larger pockets. There's also a certain mental toughness you need and I don't think you can get that if there are no good players where you regularly shoot.
I'd still like to imagine going from 0-to-A-speed is possible in two years, but I remain pretty skeptical. Ever try the ghost on a full sized diamond? If so can you beat it in 8 or 9 ball?
(Regarding the original question)
Exactly, i tell people "practice makes permanent" deep practice so you train the brain and the body (muscle memory) for each and every shot, so it is set in your subconscious, the brain can process 11 millions thoughts subconsciously and only 40 when not in a subconscious state.
You can bang balls around, but if you get in a deep focused state, where you have shots that you struggle with and learn to play them differently until you make the shot then store that information in your brain for next time, this is how you learn and how you get better. Understanding why you missed is very important, or you will see players over and over again make the same mistakes all the time, they just never learn.
I agree, practice is very important.
I once had a girlfriend who wanted to be a tightrope walker in the circus.
She would practice for several hours a day, every day, preparing herself for that one special moment when she would first be able to perform her act of skill, and daring, under the big top. Finally, after years of dedicated preparation, that moment came.
The huge circus tent was filled to capacity as she stepped out from the platform onto the high wire. First one step, then another. A beautiful and dazzling display of showmanship.
In her steady and practiced pace, she put one foot in front of the other, when almost halfway down the cable one of the circus elephants farted, causing her to lose her concentration and slip. She fell fifty feet to her death in front of hushed and horrified crowd.
As terrible as that was, she never would have had her chance to be in the spotlight, without practicing.
As for the elephant, it lived another forty-two years. :smile:
I once had a girlfriend who wanted to be a tightrope walker in the circus.
She would practice for several hours a day, every day, preparing herself for that one special moment when she would first be able to perform her act of skill, and daring, under the big top. Finally, after years of dedicated preparation, that moment came.
The huge circus tent was filled to capacity as she stepped out from the platform onto the high wire. First one step, then another. A beautiful and dazzling display of showmanship.
In her steady and practiced pace, she put one foot in front of the other, when almost halfway down the cable one of the circus elephants farted, causing her to lose her concentration and slip. She fell fifty feet to her death in front of hushed and horrified crowd.
As terrible as that was, she never would have had her chance to be in the spotlight, without practicing.
As for the elephant, it lived another forty-two years. :smile:
It makes sense to practice smashing huge draw shots with extreme English or 4 rail follow shots with running English etc. Because at some point you are going to have to do it in a match. If you don't have these shots in your arsenal it could be a game lost.
Granted, I haven't had to draw a ball full table around 3 rails in a while...but when the time comes I'll know what I'm campable of.
Granted, I haven't had to draw a ball full table around 3 rails in a while...but when the time comes I'll know what I'm campable of.
Fundamentals
Great post, I think hat it is equally important to practice the fundamentals as it is to practice shots. There's so many shots...but if the house is in order, I think you are so much more likely to make whatever shot...
Also I think it's important to practice mindset. Again, I think that a person who walks into a tournament with rock solid fundamentals and a great positive, excited mindset, can compete well with anyone.
I don't discredit practicing shots, but I just think fundamentals are so important and do not get the attention they deserve.
Ie...preshot routine, stance, stroke, follow thru, head down, envisioning the shot, loose grip, bridge distance consistency...choosing top instead of draw shots...etc.
Great post, I think hat it is equally important to practice the fundamentals as it is to practice shots. There's so many shots...but if the house is in order, I think you are so much more likely to make whatever shot...
Also I think it's important to practice mindset. Again, I think that a person who walks into a tournament with rock solid fundamentals and a great positive, excited mindset, can compete well with anyone.
I don't discredit practicing shots, but I just think fundamentals are so important and do not get the attention they deserve.
Ie...preshot routine, stance, stroke, follow thru, head down, envisioning the shot, loose grip, bridge distance consistency...choosing top instead of draw shots...etc.
i also find that small increments of time spread over different days work well. Say i decide to practice a drill that is new to me. The first day I may spent say 45 minutes on it due the excitement of the new drill. However, if i spend 5 minutes on the same drill say 3 times a week for say 2 months so the total time spent is 5 (minutes) x 3 (times a week) x 8 weeks = 120 minutes + the initial 45 minutes = 2 hours 45 minutes. This time spread over 2 months is much more useful than spending 3 hours one day and never performing the drill again.
The saying goes "practice makes perfect" which is nonsense.
Perfect practice makes perfect. I see too many guys knocking balls around for an hour with no plan or purpose and call it practice.
Body builders don't go the gym thinking "I'll just randomly lift some heavy stuff and see if I get stronger" they target a specific muscle or group of muscles.
If you are going to spend your time and money on pool then make a practice plan and regimen. Work on your weak spots, shoot with the opposite hand, practice drills over and over until they are second nature. Buy some books, DVD's or use the internet as resources.
If you bang balls around and call it practice you are a banger. That's just the way it is.
i aint got time to read everyones posts but your right, to take it my own way and as hopefully as others have said, PRACTICE MAKES PERMANTENT! how you do is how your going to do on the regular in all ways and all walks and paths in your and our lives
-Grey Ghost
body builders arent trying to stryonger...
your illustration is lacking. A body builders goal isn't to get stronger. It's to build their body. You don't isolate muscles if you want to get stronger, you teach your body muscular coordination.
All of the drills in the world aren't going to make you an awesome rotation player, or one pocket player. You have to play the games against string competition and learn to recognize patterns in conjunction with your ability.
Yes, perfect practice is necessary but you have to know and understand what perfect practice for you is and what your ultimate goals are...
Do you want to look good, body building, or perform good, parkour,
Gymnasts and special forces are some of the strongest people on the planet and they don't get the majority their strength from muscle isolation.
If you want to be the vest pool player you can. Once you get pruppr form down. Disciplined practice actually playing the games you want to be proficient at is better than almost anything else. Hell visualization of playing the games is often better than actual practice in all sports.
Jaden
The saying goes "practice makes perfect" which is nonsense.
Perfect practice makes perfect. I see too many guys knocking balls around for an hour with no plan or purpose and call it practice.
Body builders don't go the gym thinking "I'll just randomly lift some heavy stuff and see if I get stronger" they target a specific muscle or group of muscles.
If you are going to spend your time and money on pool then make a practice plan and regimen. Work on your weak spots, shoot with the opposite hand, practice drills over and over until they are second nature. Buy some books, DVD's or use the internet as resources.
If you bang balls around and call it practice you are a banger. That's just the way it is.
your illustration is lacking. A body builders goal isn't to get stronger. It's to build their body. You don't isolate muscles if you want to get stronger, you teach your body muscular coordination.
All of the drills in the world aren't going to make you an awesome rotation player, or one pocket player. You have to play the games against string competition and learn to recognize patterns in conjunction with your ability.
Yes, perfect practice is necessary but you have to know and understand what perfect practice for you is and what your ultimate goals are...
Do you want to look good, body building, or perform good, parkour,
Gymnasts and special forces are some of the strongest people on the planet and they don't get the majority their strength from muscle isolation.
If you want to be the vest pool player you can. Once you get pruppr form down. Disciplined practice actually playing the games you want to be proficient at is better than almost anything else. Hell visualization of playing the games is often better than actual practice in all sports.
Jaden
I don't know what the standards are for an A player in cities with a better pool scene, but here in Portland, I'm as good as most A's I've played. I'm an APA 7-8 and I play with a couple BCA Masters whom I'm acquainted with every once in awhile, and I usually stay pretty even with them. Ray Cunningham, a local master told me he considered me to be a strong A. Then he asked me to be his third man on his 9 ball team, but unfortunately I had to leave the country for a few months.
Hopefully next season.I play some local tournaments and they make me pay the extra few bucks that the masters have to pay. So I don't know where I stand among the rest of the world, but here in Portland I do pretty well. Maybe there just aren't many good players here in Portland to keep the bar high. I do struggle a bit on the 9 footer, but that's just a lack of table time. I think I shoot straight enough to play OK on a fullsize with a month of practice.
Ran a 4 pack of 9 ball with a bar cue this morning :wink:
This thread is getting off topic why are we talking about me so much lol
Practice is not the problem for me. I've got a pretty good practice routine worked out. I try to do it as often as I can. Problem is getting folks to leave me alone when I'm working on doing the drills. Sure, I back folks off when they come over to my table and start asking me why I'm 'practicing' instead of playing them a game, but it gets tiresome as it happens almost all the time. And then there's the guys that will say with a straight face that I'll learn more and get better by playing the game against an opponent who shoots back rather then 'wasting my time' practicing drills. Sometimes I have to get confrontational with these types just to get them to go away. And it doesn't matter the place. If I'm alone practicing, drills or no, somebody is gonna be on me to play. Seems it's the nature of the beast, particularly among pool room freeloaders hoping for some free table time or the folks that think anyone practicing alone really is just warming up while waiting for someone to come over and ask them to play 'for real.' Or if I know the person well because I shoot against them regularly in league play or in tournaments, my turn down of their request to play because I want to 'practice' very often meets with comments like, "Oh, you're just afraid to play me" or similar crap.
I try to deflect all that kind of stuff, but as I say, it does get tiresome. And every once in a while, when somebody does take no for an answer, they sit down nearby and watch as I practice, throwing in comments every now and then on how I'm doing, asking why I'm doing a certain type of drill, or suggesting some other or 'better' drill.
Well, it's all in a day's trip to the pool hall, but lord save me from these kibitzers, advice givers, and 'I know better' types.....
I try to deflect all that kind of stuff, but as I say, it does get tiresome. And every once in a while, when somebody does take no for an answer, they sit down nearby and watch as I practice, throwing in comments every now and then on how I'm doing, asking why I'm doing a certain type of drill, or suggesting some other or 'better' drill.
Well, it's all in a day's trip to the pool hall, but lord save me from these kibitzers, advice givers, and 'I know better' types.....
This happens,to me a lot... They ask what I am trying to do and sometimes will offer to shoot the shot for me, or move my cue ball and say "it will be easier if you shoot from here". Then people ask "isn't that boring playing alone". Sometimes they misunderstand what I am doing and say "how on earth do you think you're going to make it from there". Thankfully, most other times people give me good practice advice and teach me a lot. I am very grateful for their suggestions and the time they spend teaching me. But sometimes I wish I could just get a giant curtain around my area when I am practicing to save myself the embarassment of telling people I'm practicing basics.
Ok nevermind, you're probably an A then
The reason I'm focusing on you is... I think it's pretty interesting to hear a guy get so good so fast and they didn't really do much structured practice.
You always hear stories about how if shane missed a certain ball he's set it up and shoot it 150 times, or practiced the break for 12 hours. I think willie mosconi claimed he once practiced 8 hours a day without exception for 31 years straight. Then there's tales about how efren was playing hundred dollar sets when he was only 9, or whatever.
It doesn't sound like you did any of those things but somehow got to a pretty sporty level anyway. I guess it's just talent?!
But if it's not just that, and you think it has to do with how you practiced, I'd be curious what the typical practice session looks like.
I said it before, and i will say it again, if you miss pocketing a ball in a match playing a pro and he has a shot, you are dead. Therefore, practicing pocketing balls is most critical, divide table into 6" squares, place CB & OB in about 6 " apart, practice all angles with CB rolling center CB hit, soft, medium, and hard speed, then increase CB/OB distance, once all squares on table are used, do the same with say top english, once all squares are done, then draw, then top right, then top left...etc until all kind of english are done move to stun shots without english and with all english. Now practice with different bridge hand position move about an inch each time back from the tip, once all said and done you are looking at about 6000 shots possibilities, that is pool mastering. While practicing, pay attention to CB route as you hit with all speeds. Position play , kicks, banks, all of that is secondary but also need to be practiced. One thing you should not do is run racks, worst thing because not all shots possibilities are covered.
You can cut corners by just practicing say OB/CB distance is grater than 3 feet distance. Once you master pocketing with any speed, and any english, then you have more options to control CB
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