I wish! Speaking of having it rough, it was so hot in Nebraska yesterday that our climate control couldn't keep up. The shop was 78 degrees instead of 73 degree. I shouldn't have to work in these conditions....
Prather fronts
- Thread starter seahorse1877
- Start date
I wish! Speaking of having it rough, it was so hot in Nebraska yesterday that our climate control couldn't keep up. The shop was 78 degrees instead of 73 degree. I shouldn't have to work in these conditions....
If an assistant makes any part of the cue how can a cue maker say he made it?
He would need to say he and his helpers made it to be perfectly honest.
To go even farther he would need to be specific about which parts he did make and which his helpers made.
This would only really matter to those that feel the use of a Prather forearm should be disclosed to them before the purchase.
FYI ... Willeecue is a one man CNC floating point kinda shop that sometimes uses Prather half spliced forearms.
The buyer is well aware of this as I request them to call Prather and order the forearm themselves just so it will be exactly what they want.
It is shipped to me and I build the rest of the cue around it to the customers specs.
Just finishing one with a Samsara forearm.
Hi Willie,
I agree, if you made a cue with a John Davis blank it would still be Willie Cue. A Willie Cue made from the foundation of a John Davis Blank.
Rick G
Here's a bit of trivia that may or may not be relevant here, so take it with a grain of salt.
Consider the Tim Scruggs sneaky-pete.
As I understand it, Tim didn't make any of those sneakies and yet there are literally 100s, maybe 1,000s of them out there, each with his logo on them.
As the story goes, he hired a high-school kid and taught him how to build the cue to his (Tim's) standards. These were all built from Valley house cues. Tim didn't make the blanks either. As the story goes.
Consider the Tim Scruggs sneaky-pete.
As I understand it, Tim didn't make any of those sneakies and yet there are literally 100s, maybe 1,000s of them out there, each with his logo on them.
As the story goes, he hired a high-school kid and taught him how to build the cue to his (Tim's) standards. These were all built from Valley house cues. Tim didn't make the blanks either. As the story goes.
A little Tim Scruggs Cues History..
Mike Cochran told me it was Jeff Wolfe that turned shafts and then started to make the sneaky petes.
He was there from the early 90's to to about '01..
Bob Frey left in 1984.. That's when Mike joined Tim..
Mike didn't say who (if there were any) made the "Sneakys" before Jeff.
I wasn't sure if I was wrong to post this..
Lots of TS owners might feel "Funny kind" about their cues?
I sold a lot of them in Hawaii.
They were so hot, many kept asking for them well after TS & Company stopped making them.
I was told they were the best hitting cues for the money..(1990's prices, of course..)
Mike Cochran told me it was Jeff Wolfe that turned shafts and then started to make the sneaky petes.
He was there from the early 90's to to about '01..
Bob Frey left in 1984.. That's when Mike joined Tim..
Mike didn't say who (if there were any) made the "Sneakys" before Jeff.
I wasn't sure if I was wrong to post this..
Lots of TS owners might feel "Funny kind" about their cues?
I sold a lot of them in Hawaii.
They were so hot, many kept asking for them well after TS & Company stopped making them.
I was told they were the best hitting cues for the money..(1990's prices, of course..)
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No question that a properly made SP from a good Vally Supreme will hit dern good ... I think that quality feel is what has made them so popular with players.
Also no question that one made at the TS shop is high quality regardless of who there actually made it.
The test of time has been applied with favorable results.
What you start with is not quite as important as what you do with it.
Low quality workmanship will always result in a low quality cue no mater what materials were used.
Just my humble opinion ... for what it is worth.
imo
unless you grow your own trees, smelt your your metal, cure your own rubber, grow your pigs for pigskin, mix your own paint, and build your lathe from scratch in some extent almost every one buys some materials and assemblies them into a cue.
is it a sin to use a davis blank? a valley, dufferin, or titlist? i do not think so, i just tell my customer this is a dufferin-starkey or a schmelke-starkey.
i do not think you should buy a prather forearm and tell your customer that you made it, but if is disclosed i see no problem in doing so.
i think this has been discussed many times and this is the last opinion i offer on the matter.
chuck
unless you grow your own trees, smelt your your metal, cure your own rubber, grow your pigs for pigskin, mix your own paint, and build your lathe from scratch in some extent almost every one buys some materials and assemblies them into a cue.
is it a sin to use a davis blank? a valley, dufferin, or titlist? i do not think so, i just tell my customer this is a dufferin-starkey or a schmelke-starkey.
i do not think you should buy a prather forearm and tell your customer that you made it, but if is disclosed i see no problem in doing so.
i think this has been discussed many times and this is the last opinion i offer on the matter.
chuck
I say something like ..." I made that using a Prather forearm" or " made that from a Duffern house cue".
That usually covers it very well.
It is not quite as easy making a cue from bought parts as one person has learned.
Thinking "RAGUE CUE" here ... the cue that never was.
Not from the viewpoint that you are using another cue makers work in your cue. It is the same subject and right on point.
YOU did not make the spliced part of the cue.
However, there is a big difference in the way they are constructed.
That part is defiantly apples to oranges ... (BTW: I prefer oranges
)Let me point out that I am a big fan of Prather's forearms and have just completed a cue using a Samsara forearm from Atlas.
So please anyone, dont get the impression I am against pre-made parts.
That was the whole point of sneaky petes.
The shooter who wanted a maker's shaft but cutdown housecue for a butt so nobody would look at his house cue and think he's a very good player.
How many "expensive" sneaky petes are there coming out of cuemakers' shop?
They became expensive in the secondary market.
Take out the past ten years, most cue makers started out doing repairs, then worked up to making sneaky petes out of broken house cues. Once they got the skill set, they started making merry widow/plain janes. Once they figured that skill set, they moved on by making their own short splices, first plain, next with veneers. They use each set as a learning process to hone the skills to be able to build a reputation due to well made cues. They learn more than how to do it. They learn why.
Jump ahead to today. A guy buys a book, a video, ATC section on AZ and start slapping pre-fab, veneered, short splices together without really knowing why or how. IMO, if you are a hobbyist and that what you want to do, so be it. If you want to do it full time and be "known," you better work your way up to it.
This is the reason more "known" cue makers are not posting here anymore. No one pays their dues today.
You make a comment that I find the most interesting. You say you are just a hobbyist. Almost all the cuemakers are hobbyists. I notice you have sold quite a few cues on ebay and are making a few bucks at it so it is a little more them a hobby to you I think you like making cues. But here is my point. By being a hobbyist you can actually do maybe better work then the person needing to get X number of cues out to meet the nut. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to build a cue and you can be almost fanatical at it as you teach yourself the art. Bob Manzino comes to mind. He was building cues that are prized with a minimal of equipment in a shop the size on my wife's walk in closet. You should not use the "I can't because I don't have the equipment" excuse. In regard to making points if you have a lathe I can show you a jig you can make for about $10.00 that will cut perfect point slots.
In fact once it is set up, it will take maybe 20 minutes to get it in place, you can make a batch of pointed nose piece blanks in a few hours. If you make say 20 nose pieces you are talking about $1500.00 to maybe $2000.00 worth of parts using Prather prices. You also have control of what you are doing, use your own colors, better slection of woods, experiment and so on. I would never knock Prather there is certainly a market for what he does but not for everyone. If you want to make cues you want to be the cuemaker, not paying money to someone else to do what you can do just as good. "YES", just as good, or better.
After reading this thread I actually went looking last night for a point jig I made maybe 30 years ago and I found it. I never throw anything away I guess. I will post a picture of it as food for thought. Yes, equipment is fun and there is certainly certain pieces of equipment you need to build cues but a lot of it can be built by yourself. This is not in the lest a debate just a discussion that is why you come here.
Interestingly enough regarding what a professional and a hobbyist can do. I built a new set of stairs to the second floor of my garage last year. I could have bought a stringer from Home Depot and some wood and pretty quickly build the stairs. The factory ones looked like crap though so instead I bought a couple of 2 x 12 x 12's and built the stringers myself. I then built all the risers and steps and rails. I cut everything oversize by an inch and finish cut them on the band saw.
I would say everything fit within a 1/32 to a 1/64 of an inch. Point is, as a hobbyist carpenter not having to worry about time frames or labor cost I built a set of stairs a professional carpenter would never realistically have built. Don't sell yourself short as a hobbyist. The information is out there, materials available and there is no reason you can't build a cue as good as anyone. Cues that when you run into them years later you will be proud to say you built them.
I don't know, maybe it is just me but ingenuity seems to have gone out of style. People are used to just paying for everything and don't get the same pleasure we used to get years ago doing things ourselves. I remember when I was like 16 my friends and I spending like 48 straight hours switching bodies from one car to another we were building. Today the average kid can't change their oil nor do they want to. Part of the REAL reward of building the cues, or doing anything for that matter, is in the doing. Again, this is not a debate just a philosophical discussion. Neither side is right or wrong, they just have different wants and objectives and maybe philosophies. I will post that picture later.
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Not having the tooling really isn't an excuse. I'm assuming you're already building non-pointed cues, but I don't know for sure. If that's the case, you must have a few tools. I know I could visit your shop and do a veneered forearm for less than $20.
You don't need a $300 blade to do veneers. In fact, I think it is a lot harder to get those things set up and working perfect than it is to build something yourself. Especially considering a lot of people who buy them put them on a crappy $100 table saw that probably has a ton of runout in the blade. Many people I know who have bought them, don't use them anymore. I was offered one for free and told the guy to give it to somebody who might use it.
I don't think so either. I believe everyone that has ever built a cue has used someone's blanks or parts other than what they have made in the shop themselves. If you continue though, I do believe you are defining who you are as a builder and you will plateau. Maybe some builders don't care, but if you're not moving forward, you're falling behind.