Pre Coat Epoxy???

K

kiinstructor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi, Ive been making cues for quite a few years and tried just about every finish there is from clear coat to water base and back to clear coat. My question is this. Before I start building coats of finish and by the way I use Nason Clear coat. I seal with a lacquer sanding seal after sanding to 1000 grit. I usually put about 3 coat of sealer on the butt and allow to dry and build slightly but the wood are still porus and somewhat open grained in places and I end up putting 5 or 6 coats of finish on the cue having to sand between and its a real pain the ass. I love the result. Clear and deep and exposing the grains the way a finish should. Ive never used epoxy to seal the cue. My concerns are color for one and clarity. Ive dont even know how to apply it or what kind to use. Does it sand well and how long to cure. I know therse are a bunch of questions but I want to do things right. Appreciate any suggestions and thanks.
Mark
 
I start with the joint of the cue butt at .842 in. I use Max 618 epoxy for sealer. It is the same as or better than West System 205/207. I mix up a total 8 grams. On the first coat, I rub it into the spinning cue with a rubber glove then smooth it out. On the next coats I smooth it with a foam brush or a playing card. When it has set up … about 4 hours at 72 deg.... longer if cooler.... put on a second coat...4 hours later put on a 3rd coat. Leave it spinning slowly until it sets. Maybe 6 hours or over night. Leave it alone for 2 to 3 days before sanding.

Be sure the cue is perfectly clean before applying the epoxy sealer. I mix my epoxy on a gram scale in a 3 oz Dixie cup and mix it up with a popsicle stick. Weighing it assures a proper mix ratio. A little 100 or 200 gram scale can be had on Ebay for $10. The room should be above 70 deg for all finishing or there might be problems. Epoxy will take longer to set if the room is cold. Humidity should be 40 to 50 percent. High humidity will cause problems with all aspects of cue building not just the finish.

I spin the cue about 60 rpm and warm it with a heat gun to 80 or 90 deg. I put the 6 oz bottles of epoxy in the microwave for 10 seconds to warm it. Mix up the epoxy 2 parts resin to 1 part hardener. Mix it well and then drizzle it on the cue as it is spinning slowly then smooth it out. Go from one end to the other and try to evenly distribute it on the cue. After the epoxy is hard take a measurement at the joint. It should be about .855in or more. Now wait 2 to 3 days before sanding.

Kim
 
kiinstructor said:
Hi, Ive been making cues for quite a few years and tried just about every finish there is from clear coat to water base and back to clear coat. My question is this. Before I start building coats of finish and by the way I use Nason Clear coat. I seal with a lacquer sanding seal after sanding to 1000 grit. I usually put about 3 coat of sealer on the butt and allow to dry and build slightly but the wood are still porus and somewhat open grained in places and I end up putting 5 or 6 coats of finish on the cue having to sand between and its a real pain the ass. I love the result. Clear and deep and exposing the grains the way a finish should. Ive never used epoxy to seal the cue. My concerns are color for one and clarity. Ive dont even know how to apply it or what kind to use. Does it sand well and how long to cure. I know therse are a bunch of questions but I want to do things right. Appreciate any suggestions and thanks.
Mark
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You might wanna go down to 320 grit at least .
Sand lengthwise then seal with epoxy after .
 
JoeyInCali said:
Red Scotch Brite works for me after the epoxy coat .
Then light 320 grit scratches.
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I have tried the green and red scotch to scuff 4 coats of thin rattle can lacquer over artwork that has been painted over epoxy substrate and red is my go to.

I often use 100 grit on point cues with 120 psi air nozzle close to light veneers on ebony cues. The 100 grit will not smear finite ebony dust and keeps the veneers clean.

The better the scratch the better the adhesion of the coating.

Rick
 
JoeyInCali said:
Red Scotch Brite works for me after the epoxy coat .
Then light 320 grit scratches.
Click to expand...

Red all the way. Between coats of paint as well. We'd use red for single stage and gray for multistage jobs at the body shop. It's MUCH easier than paper for the simple roughing for repaint.
 
pescadoman said:
Red all the way. Between coats of paint as well. We'd use red for single stage and gray for multistage jobs at the body shop. It's MUCH easier than paper for the simple roughing for repaint.
Click to expand...

I didn't even know it was that popular.
Auto clear is so volatile, if it doesn't grab the epoxy coat scratched with red pad and 320, it's crap.
 
scdiveteam said:
I have tried the green and red scotch to scuff 4 coats of thin rattle can lacquer over artwork that has been painted over epoxy substrate and red is my go to.

I often use 100 grit on point cues with 120 psi air nozzle close to light veneers on ebony cues. The 100 grit will not smear finite ebony dust and keeps the veneers clean.

The better the scratch the better the adhesion of the coating.

Rick
Click to expand...
I'm not even going to let 100 grit paper near my cues.
 
pescadoman said:
Why not? We're talking about prep work for paint here...
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Maybe I am wrong but I just feel that scotch brite pads were not meant for paint or finish work. I would be worried as to what is on them that will be left on the surface.

Maybe it's because I had so many problems with finish early on that I don't what to risk it.

It has taken me a few years to get my finish to the point it is at now and I am happy with it.

Kim
 
Kim,

Your right, don't want to use them after the clear coat but before over the substrate is good. I only use it to scuff rattle can lacquer over Kenny's art work where burning through the lacquer would be a bad day.LOL. He paints the cues after I sand the epoxy to mandrel size.

Normally 220 and 100 to scratch the substrate is what I like depending on the type of cue and woods. I know 100 sounds a bit harsh but with light sweeping strokes it keep lighter veneers very clean with 120 psi air.

Rick
 
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When I worked in the body shop we used the red pad when we were going to be painting as it is around a 320-400 grit scratch and the grey when we were only clear coating an area, such as blending paint on part of a panel and then clear coating the whole thing. When we didn't have any grey pads around 1000 was used for the same purpose, so yeah I would say grey is too fine for working on a cue.
 
scdiveteam said:
Kim,

Your right, don't want to use them after the clear coat but before over the substrate is good. I only use it to scuff rattle can lacquer over Kenny's art work where burning through the lacquer would be a bad day.LOL. He paints the cues after I sand the epoxy to mandrel size.

Normally 220 and 100 to scratch the substrate is what I like depending on the type of cue and woods. I know 100 sounds a bit harsh but with light sweeping strokes it keep lighter veneers very clean with 120 psi air.

Rick
Click to expand...

Rick.... please don't reinforce the notion that he is correct about the pads. If you don't believe me or the other gent who has used them in the body shop business, that is up to you.

You might want to tell 3m though...
 

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