Predator - Pay More, Get Less?
- Thread starter BarringerCues
- Start date
John Barton
New member
Brian in VA said:
Well people can waive their rights by signing a contract. So if they do that then more power to them.
My question is what happens to old inventory? What happens to old models of Bose speakers or old models of Predator cues that aren't moving or are made obsolete by newer technology?
Does Predator buy back or trade in those items so that the retailer is not stuck with them?
John Barton said:
Sorry but I simply cannot understand this question. If this is demanded from Predator than all the car dealers around here could demand the manufacturers to buy back all the "2nd. gen" Ford Mondeos because there's a new one... Imo this is a quite outrageous demand.
How far can they go?
Where does Predator's rights end?
Do they have a right to call me if I am not one of their dealers? I trade cues all the time. If someone, possibly even a dealer, wants something I have, and they want to throw a Predator cue in as part of the trade, am I then obligated by Predator's MAP?
As a private citizen with no affiliation with Predator, and no dealer's agreement with them, do they still have a right to intimidate me?
Where does Predator's rights end?
Do they have a right to call me if I am not one of their dealers? I trade cues all the time. If someone, possibly even a dealer, wants something I have, and they want to throw a Predator cue in as part of the trade, am I then obligated by Predator's MAP?
As a private citizen with no affiliation with Predator, and no dealer's agreement with them, do they still have a right to intimidate me?
I'm going to reply to this thread but, I don't have time to do it in detail right now. But, I will say that I am a big supporter of Predator Products have been for years, and it's not because of the Price it's because of the Product itself, and I'll continue to be.
As a consumer I'd of course like to get anything that I buy for as little as possible. As a business man I'd like to make as much money that I can as long as the market will support my pricing.
As an owner of a Predator SE-3, I'd like to know that the $1600.00 dollar value that is the MSRP. will never be sold for less than the $1280.00 that I paid for it, the value was built in.
The other point is simply if you want to sell your product for less than 20%, just don't advertise it, if you've got old inventory you've got to burn it off. I happen to know for a fact that a certain retailer that is one of their top resellers happened to sell alot of their 1st generation merchandise for more than the original 20%, and they were allowed to advertise it so I'd be hard pressed to believe that Predator wouldn't make the same concessions for everyone. They just don't won't the products given away which would lower the value.
Black Cat.
As a consumer I'd of course like to get anything that I buy for as little as possible. As a business man I'd like to make as much money that I can as long as the market will support my pricing.
As an owner of a Predator SE-3, I'd like to know that the $1600.00 dollar value that is the MSRP. will never be sold for less than the $1280.00 that I paid for it, the value was built in.
The other point is simply if you want to sell your product for less than 20%, just don't advertise it, if you've got old inventory you've got to burn it off. I happen to know for a fact that a certain retailer that is one of their top resellers happened to sell alot of their 1st generation merchandise for more than the original 20%, and they were allowed to advertise it so I'd be hard pressed to believe that Predator wouldn't make the same concessions for everyone. They just don't won't the products given away which would lower the value.
Black Cat.
Bamacues said:
No. The idea presented (I have no knowledge of these agreements) is just a contractual agreement they require of distributors and dealers.
In my opinion, a manufacturer should have a right to set terms with distributors/dealers. It's up to the dealers to decide if they will sell the manufactuers products. That's what a free market is really all about. If the government were to restrict this, it would be a restraint of trade.
Basically, maintaining integrity of pricing is to protect dealers/distributors against predatory pricing by high volume purchasers and helps level the playing field between the large purchasers and the small. Since the whole idea of free market is survival of the fittest, ultimately what the consumer purchases wil determine the success or failure of each enterprise.
I view the policy Predator is using as a compliment to their management. Their advertised prices are still competitive with lesser known, less popular laminated brands. I had a custom shaft made up to fit my cue for under $200.
Chris
TATE said:
Chris,
I asked the question because this morning I was called by Predator and told to remove the price that I had listed on AZ Billiards (a member's only forum, I might add). I informed them that I was a cue trader/collector, and that I had no dealer's agreement with Predator. I told them that I was not an authorized Predator dealer. I told them that I often got cues like this in cue trades as partial payment for custom cues, etc. I was told that that did not matter. They stated that I had to remove the advertised price because it was a violation of their MAP. I stated that I felt that as a private citizen with no tie to their company, I did not feel that I was under any trade restriction. The lady was very intimidating in her manner. For the time being, I removed the advertised price.
Joe
Bamacues said:
WTF
That is BS. How in the heck can they tell me or whoever, what they can and can not sell for if you are not contracted through them? Buying through them using their discount is one thing, but picking up one on trade and selling it that is ridiculous.
Joe,
What is this woman's name and what is her phone number? I'd like to interview her for a future thread here on AZ.
There is no way she has legal recourse to force you to adhere to Predator's pricing policies (aptly named company, eh?). She could, however, sue you and force you to defend yourself. VERY intimidating to say the least.
The best defense here is keeping everything out in the open. So let's get her name in print and have everyone call Predator and ask them to explain their pricing policies and their intimidaiton tactics openly.
MM...VERY angry at the moment!
Bamacues said:
What is this woman's name and what is her phone number? I'd like to interview her for a future thread here on AZ.
There is no way she has legal recourse to force you to adhere to Predator's pricing policies (aptly named company, eh?). She could, however, sue you and force you to defend yourself. VERY intimidating to say the least.
The best defense here is keeping everything out in the open. So let's get her name in print and have everyone call Predator and ask them to explain their pricing policies and their intimidaiton tactics openly.
MM...VERY angry at the moment!
John Barton
New member
poohkiller said:
No actually, it is a legitimate question. If a manufacturer is going to dictate to me what I can sell at then they ought to also protect my business by not sticking me with inventory that does not move.
Traditionally in retail slow moving products are marked way down to turn them over so that the money can be invested in new products.
So what should Predator do if a cistomer buys a PX-001 and it doesn't move in the local market for the price Predator has set for it? And on top of that Predator comes out with the PX-002 which is advertised by Predator as being 20% better then the PX-001. So what recourse does the retailer have here?
Do they just sit on the product till some sucker comes in that doesn't read pool mags and "knows" that the PX-002 is soooo much better and just has money to burn? Or does Predator offer to trade out the NOT SELLING and NOW OBSOLETE PX-001 for the latest and greatest PX-002???
Since they are going to dictate the selling price they ought to be invested in the rent dontcha think?
John
Bamacues said:
If you are a dealer that sells Predator cues than I believe the MAP could be applied to you. Think about it, the MAP has not substance if one way to get out of its restrictions were to simply declare yourself a non authorized dealer.
If you are selling as a private individual, such as how you have characterized this transaction, then the actions of the Predator sales rep are unwarranted. The MAP agreement could not possibly apply to individual transactions, it could only apply to direct B2B relationships with Predator and a Predator dealer be they authorized or unauthorized.
Personally i think their cues and shafts are all junk anyways and furthermore wouldnt spend 2cents for anything they sell period......
If you cant play with a regular american made cue you should take two weeks off and "QUIT" the game for good...........................
If you cant play with a regular american made cue you should take two weeks off and "QUIT" the game for good...........................
what they did to joe is bs. people sell predator cues on this forum at low prices all the time. i dont see why i have to inflate the price i would want to sell the cue for if i have no contractual agreement with them. if someone wants to pay retail on it then they are welcomed to do so through a dealer, if they want to pay less and not get the warranty then they can buy it from someone here. either way predator has no right to tell people what they can and cannot sell their cues for if they are the owner of said cue and dont have any dealings with the company.
joe u should have hung up on her. but then again i suppose it's not worth all the potential trouble over one cue.
joe u should have hung up on her. but then again i suppose it's not worth all the potential trouble over one cue.
Predator's warranty has nothing to do with original purchaser. If they are going to start changing the warranty on their product by limiting it to the original purchaser they are going to have one hell of a lawsuit on their hands. Plus their Product's image will become tarnished with the policy change. Top-cue makers use the partials to make customer requested shafts. The makers are the original purchasers. This arguement could go on forever, but the bottom line is Predator needs to re-think their game before it hurts them in the long run.
After checking their site it looks like they have ammended their warranty to state original purchaser. Never ceases to surprise me how companies alter warrantees to suit their greed. As I hope you can tell by this post edit that I remember the original warranty claims, and they never included the terms original purchaser.
After checking their site it looks like they have ammended their warranty to state original purchaser. Never ceases to surprise me how companies alter warrantees to suit their greed. As I hope you can tell by this post edit that I remember the original warranty claims, and they never included the terms original purchaser.
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uwate said:
That probably wasn't even Predator that contacted you. It was probably a dealer. Predator can only throw their weight around with their dealers/distributors because of signed agreements. The rest of the American public can sell Predator cues for whatever they will bring...or next to nothing.
Bigjohn said:
It was very early when she called...around 9 AM. I did not answer the first time. The call came from 904-448-8748, and she identified herself as being with Predator. I was too upset to think to get her name...she caught me off guard. Anyways, I have a bad ticker and am not supposed to get upset.
I felt the best thing to do was to simply remove my price, as she demanded, and ask you folks for your opinions.
At any rate, this cue has been traded. Now we will have to see if the next person becomes victimized or not.
Joe