Pro One

Precise cue tip placement.

obrien714 said:
I ordered my dvd last fri or sat. It came in the mail Tues. I Really see how the system eliminates the guess work of the aiming systems we are all used to targeting the cue ball with...

I havent had a chance to get on the table yet to give it a try. I do have 2 questions..

1. It seems the system is for pocketing balls. Where does the position play and english part come in.. Can i line up for a shot , use the proper pivot and use high or low english?

2. When pocketing the bank shot i only assume, due to the fact i havent been to the table yet. You find your bank point on the rail and then use the proper cte aim position. Hit the ball and thats your line?


My last question is. I tried to watch the video on my MACBOOK laptop and then also a windows laptop and the dvd will not play.. Is anyone else having a problem with this? My regular dvd player plays it fine.


Headed to a table tonight to start my CTE journey..

Cheers
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This is only a suggestion and I don't know if it was assumed, suggested or emphatically stated in the video. This is just me talking. When you are addressing the cue ball with your pre-tip position, I encourage you to place the cue tip along the horizontal axis of the cue ball (AND CLOSE TO THE CUE BALL), NOT low or HIGH as some players do. It seems, at least for me, that it is much harder to place the cue tip on the proper position of the vertical axis if you have the tip sitting on the felt or up near the top of the cue ball.

This bit of information is in addition to the proper pre-pivot position of the bridge hand (which is in the video).

I use English or follow or draw in addition to Pro One/CTE.
 
I, too, hope Dr. Dave will give us a review of Pro One. I also hope that the first things before going into a lot of details that he tells us are:

How many times did he watch the DVD.

How many hours did he work with Pro One.

Can he consistently make shots using Pro One.

I think it only fair to the Pro One system and to Stan to answer these questions first.

Just my thoughts
 
dr_dave said:
If you are using a fixed-bridge pivot (as Stan demonstrates), bridge length is definitely important. For a given shot with a given alignment, pivot, and bridge length, if you change the bridge length and use the exact same alignment and pivot, the same shot won't go anymore. Diagram 4 in my December '08 BD article illustrates an example of this. Here it is:

aim_bridge.jpg

Are you willing to share the information or at least describe the claim?

Thanks,
Dave
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I will at the appropriate time and in the appropriate thread. What I have to say has nothing to do with CTE other than it PROVES that bridge distance does not matter when using CTE. But that proof is a by product of applying what I was taught this past week regarding stroke techniques.

Edited to add that the above diagram has nothing to do with CTE as taught by Hal Houle, Stan Shuffet, or anyone else. It was created by Dave Alciatore who has not had until NOW a complete set of instructions for any CTE method. Sorry Dave but it's not quite proper of you in my eyes to speak of bridge distances and pivot distances as if you understand the subject when you don't know the steps. The issue with this diagram have been pointed out to you in the past and yet you continue to use it.

In your diagram you even state that it's meant for 90/90 but then you try to apply it to CTE.
 
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I am quite successful using Backhand English with CTE. I get to the shot line using CTE and then I move my backhand so that the tip is addressing the cue ball with the desired spin.
 
I am definately not understanding Pro1 yet, even though some of my friends here on AZ are kind enough to try and help me with it. On the video when he says the outside of the QB is lined up with A or C, how can that be possible, when the center of the CB is lined up with the edge of the OB doesn't the outside edge of the QB have to be in line with A, since the balls are the same size. Are A, B, and C aiming points, or just aligning points? In the demonstrations, Stevie and Brandon look like they are manually pivoting, but said they are using Pro1 pivots. It took me a while to grasp Perfect Aim, so it may take a while, but I will get it.
 
irock said:
I am definately not understanding Pro1 yet, even though some of my friends here on AZ are kind enough to try and help me with it. On the video when he says the outside of the QB is lined up with A or C, how can that be possible, when the center of the CB is lined up with the edge of the OB doesn't the outside edge of the QB have to be in line with A, since the balls are the same size. Are A, B, and C aiming points, or just aligning points? In the demonstrations, Stevie and Brandon look like they are manually pivoting, but said they are using Pro1 pivots. It took me a while to grasp Perfect Aim, so it may take a while, but I will get it.
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IRock,
Try it like this.
When you align you body standing upright with Center To Edge (center of cue ball to edge of Object ball), simultaneously move very slightly with your eyes so that you can see the edge of the cue ball LINING up with the correct A, B or C aim point. At this point, you are still standing upright but you should be able to see the CTEL (center to edge line) AND the aim point line. Now simply lower yourself to the pre-pivot shot line keeping this same visual perspective (you can still see the CTE line from the top of the cue ball as you lower yourself into shooting position.

No one who is trying to learn Stan Shuffett's CTE/Pro One system should be attempting to move right into Pro One. Pro One is the natural next step in Stan's CTE Pro One system. After you have mastered Stan's "MANUAL" portion of CTE, you can move on to what Landon and Stevie do and that is Pro One. In Pro One, you use all of the alignment and "correct" aim points just as you do in the "MANUAL" CTE Pro One; the only difference is that you automatically place your bridge hand in the after pivot location.

I understand how some people are not getting it and it is unfortunate. Stan's CTE Pro One Aiming System IS VERY PRECISE and it requires the shooter to do things in a very systematic and precise manner. It is not as complicated as some people are making it out to be. Finally, I think I am getting why Hal, always wanted to show people CTE. For the record, Hal never told me that the aim points A B or C were part of his CTE aiming system. Stan showed me this in person and it is very finite and very accurate.

I just got off of Facebook with an instructor who after watching the video did not understand some of the very basic principles of Stan's CTE Pro One aiming system. After some brief explanation he understood what he was missing.

I urge EVERYONE who is having trouble with CTE Pro One to start out on shots that are relatively close together but where the CB & OB are NOT CLOSER than 18" but NOT FURTHER APART than 36". When you are able to master the simple but PRECISE visual perceptions of Stan's CTE Pro One aiming system, you can move on to longer shots. It is just a lot easier to see the visual perceptions up close when you are first learning it.

The problems that people are having are the new terminology, the new perspective and possibly even that individuals have different visual perceptions of what they see.

I PROMISE, this is not as difficult as some are finding it to be and it IS PRECISE and accurate. Hang in there. After a while, it becomes second nature and you do all of this in less than 5 seconds.
 
JB Cases said:
I am quite successful using Backhand English with CTE. I get to the shot line using CTE and then I move my backhand so that the tip is addressing the cue ball with the desired spin.
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Backhand English is a natural for this aiming system IMO. Follow and draw are a no-brainer with this aiming system.
 
JoeyA said:
When you align you body standing upright with Center To Edge (center of cue ball to edge of Object ball), simultaneously move very slightly with your eyes so that you can see the edge of the cue ball LINING up with the correct A, B or C aim point. At this point, you are still standing upright but you should be able to see the CTEL (center to edge line) AND the aim point line. Now simply lower yourself to the pre-pivot shot line keeping this same visual perspective (you can still see the CTE line from the top of the cue ball as you lower yourself into shooting position
Click to expand...
What still isn't clear after my first viewing is how you select the object ball alignment point based on the the particular shot at hand based on the amount of cut needed, CB-OB distance, and even bridge length. The video shows lots of shot examples and says what to do for those specific shots, but it doesn't seem to provide guidance as to how to figure it out on your own for any shot at the table, with a given cut angle, CB-OB distance, and bridge length. The video seems to imply that you figure it out through lots of practice and experience, which is fine ... that's how most people learn to aim anyway.

When there is a fixed-bridge pivot (even a small one) with a fixed initial alignment, the resulting cut angle depends on both bridge length and CB-OB distance (see my CTE resource page for more info). I know Stan covers some special cases, but all of this stuff varies continuously as the cut angle, shot distance, and bridge length change, so adjustments are necessary relative to the fixed references and special cases. I don't think there is anything wrong with this, but it doesn't seem to be acknowledged in the video (or in any discussion of CTE I've seen).

Respectfully,
Dave
 
I got my copy yesterday and was so excited to watch. I basically knew everything on the Manual pivot of CTE, what was new to me was the aiming points A, B, and C. Didnt really get to try it out on the table yet, as today I will be playing in a tournament I do t really want to change anything that might screw me up but after tonight or even maybe during a long wait I will. What I didn't like was they should of showed some shots from a left handed player during Pro One. Cause I can't really see them prepivoting using Pro One. But maybe it's just cause I didn't try it out myself yet. Altogether though it's a great DVD money was well spent.
 
JoeyA said:
Backhand English is a natural for this aiming system IMO. Follow and draw are a no-brainer with this aiming system.
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The effective use of backhand english to compensate for squirt requires a bridge length equal to the cue's natural pivot length.

For manual CTE, Stan recommends a bridge length that varies according to the distance between the CB and OB. If the two balls are "extremely close," then the bridge distance is supposed to be "very short." For other shots, the recommended bridge distance varies from about 5" to 9" depending on how far the two balls are separated.

The varying bridge distances needed for Stan's CTE are inconsistent with the need to bridge at the cue's natural pivot length for the effective use of BHE. In fact, for a particular cue, it may be that none of the recommended bridge distances correspond with the cue's natural pivot length.

A potential solution to this dilemma is to use Stan's recommended bridge lengths to get the cue to its final aiming line, and then reposition the bridge to the cue's natural pivot length before applying BHE. This, obviously, would introduce another step to the procedure.

Edit: Note that with Pro One, the cue is brought directly onto the final line of aim -- so it is possible to bridge directly at the cue's natural pivot point while using Pro One.
 
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Joey A, thanks for trying to help, when you say (When you align you body standing upright with Center To Edge (center of cue ball to edge of Object ball), simultaneously move very slightly with your eyes so that you can see the edge of the cue ball LINING up with the correct A, B or C aim point. ) Say it looks to me like point C, do I pivot the tip to this point? I keep waiting for that light to go off in my head, but I think the electricity is off. lol
 
dr_dave said:
What still isn't clear after my first viewing is how you select the object ball alignment point based on the the particular shot at hand based on the amount of cut needed, CB-OB distance, and even bridge length. The video shows lots of shot examples and says what to do for those specific shots, but it doesn't seem to provide guidance as to how to figure it out on your own for any shot at the table, with a given cut angle, CB-OB distance, and bridge length. The video seems to imply that you figure it out through lots of practice and experience, which is fine ... that's how most people learn to aim anyway.

When there is a fixed-bridge pivot (even a small one) with a fixed initial alignment, the resulting cut angle depends on both bridge length and CB-OB distance (see my CTE resource page for more info). I know Stan covers some special cases, but all of this stuff varies continuously as the cut angle, shot distance, and bridge length change, so adjustments are necessary relative to the fixed references and special cases. I don't think there is anything wrong with this, but it doesn't seem to be acknowledged in the video (or in any discussion of CTE I've seen).

Respectfully,
Dave
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Are you shooting balls only with the info from the dvd. Get all of the other pre-conceived notions out of your head and just trust cte. Try it with an open mind.
 
Dr. Dave,

What I had hoped you would do was not right off the bat start giving all the reasons why you "think" Pro One should not or will not work. This is a somewhat negative approach.

On a more positive note it might be better to just try to follow Stan's instructions on the DVD as best you can and see if you start making shots.

That's what many of us have done and it does work for me. I am making more shots than ever before so for me I really don't care why it should not work since it is indeed working for me. You should at least just try it and see if it works for you without any preconceived notions of why it should not work.

This seems to me to be a fair way to start your research on Pro One.

Thank you for your consideration.
 
I expressed my opinions because people asked for it.

I have viewed the DVD. I have tried many of the shots. I can make the shots work. However, if I change the shots slightly (angle, distance, or bridge length), they don't work without additional guidance or adjustment, which the DVD does not provide. I can use my normal aiming instincts and "feel" to make adjustments, but that's cheating, right?

I won't contribute any more to these threads unless people seek my opinion on specific matters.

Regards,
Dave

Murdoch7627 said:
Dr. Dave,

What I had hoped you would do was not right off the bat start giving all the reasons why you "think" Pro One should not or will not work. This is a somewhat negative approach.

On a more positive note it might be better to just try to follow Stan's instructions on the DVD as best you can and see if you start making shots.

That's what many of us have done and it does work for me. I am making more shots than ever before so for me I really don't care why it should not work since it is indeed working for me. You should at least just try it and see if it works for you without any preconceived notions of why it should not work.

This seems to me to be a fair way to start your research on Pro One.

Thank you for your consideration.
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CTE Is Simple - Just Not Easy In Some Cases.

First I want to thank Stan for providing the missing pieces of the CTE puzzle.
CTE/Pro One principles are simple. Stan has taken the mystery out of it with his dvd, and shows what's needed to make it work.

Applying the principles isn't easy for some people though, myself included. When I apply what Stan shows, exactly as he shows, it works.
What I'm finding though, is that I have to change my approach and alignment that I've developed and used for the past 50 plus years.
That's OK tho - I was already going back to basics and working on my stroke and other fundamentals before the dvd, so it is something else to work on.

I'm watching and rewatching the dvd, and things are starting to come together when on the table.
I envy anyone who just "gets it" and can immediately start using it, but that's not me. I'm willing to plod along untill it is second nature to me though.

To get the fundamentals down, what I'm doing now is practicing the straight shot using CTE. By shooting a ball downtable at a spot on the short rail,
I get immediate feedback if I'm doing something wrong. I started off missing the spot by about 1" to 2" to the right of the spot,
but the good thing is that it almost always missed that way, so I figured it wasn't my stroke. That left visuals, approach, and pivot.
By changing my approach and bridge placement, things are starting to come around.

The most important thing to me about the dvd is that it proved to ME that I can use it. I feel like all the pieces are there, and I just have to put them together.
It looks like, that for me, it may take a while longer than a few other people, but I'm kind of stubborn about some things, and this looks like one of them.
Right now, I'm working to get the CTE part down pat before switching to the Pro One version.

I'm really glad it's finally to the point where CTE can be discussed, and learned by more and more players.
I hope anyone who can help with additional suggestions and hints will jump in and post them.

.
 
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pooltchr said:
That was the biggest unanswered question I had on my first viewing. I will need to get to a pool table with some peace and quiet to really work with it. I also plan to get together with a friend who has studied the subject with Stan. There has to be something to let you know whether you are lining up to A,B, or C.

I gotta admit it is a lot to think about.

Steve
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I didn't order a DVD and JB hasn't gotten his yet so he doesn't refer to "lining up to A, B, or C"

Can someone tell us where A, B or C is...I only know where 1/8 is.

Is it a symbol for 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4 OB or reverse?

Thanks.:confused:
 
LAMas said:
I didn't order a DVD and JB hasn't gotten his yet so he doesn't refer to "lining up to A, B, or C"

Can someone tell us where A, B or C is...I only know where 1/8 is.

Is it a symbol for 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4 OB or reverse?

Thanks.:confused:
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Yes Lamas...Always from left to right...ABC
 
dr_dave said:
I expressed my opinions because people asked for it.

I have viewed the DVD. I have tried many of the shots. I can make the shots work. However, if I change the shots slightly (angle, distance, or bridge length), they don't work without additional guidance or adjustment, which the DVD does not provide. I can use my normal aiming instincts and "feel" to make adjustments, but that's cheating, right?

I won't contribute any more to these threads unless people seek my opinion on specific matters.

Regards,
Dave
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I was hoping for a review, because your point of view has always been the most neutral one.
Does the DVD answer all the questions you've had? What's the difference between Pro One and CTE?
 
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