Pro Player Max Eberle recalls "The Most Energetic & Electric Moment in Pool Times 10"

[JB Cases]

Those are pretty strong words about 4 people you don't know. I'm willing to guess you haven't ever bet two nickles... There are a lot of people that that mean much to pool who are a little less vocal, and feel the same way. see here.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=346584&page=3

Winning by a LANDSLIDE, is SJD for pointing out some finer points about your hero, that hasn't really done much for pool since "the million dollar challenge, pool's greatest miss..."

Folks like mark here, the blind follower of the big name, don't grow pool. They kiss ass looking for hand outs and pats on top of there head. When's the last time you helped pool by ACTUALLY buying a product? Have you even bought CJ's new masterpiece? Just off the top of my head between streams, tournaments, pool gear (NOT INCLUDING THE $10K I SPENT ON A NEW TABLE, CUE, AND CASE.) I've sunk about $2-3k back into pool just in 2013. (Granted not a huge number, but I'm a busy man with career, wife, and child.) I buy every stream I have time to watch, I buy all the apparel I like, I donate to junior billiard programs, and I go out of my way to help ANYONE, including you if you ask, grow their game. That's what it takes to help pool grow, nothing crazy like making a documentary, though it does help. It simply ACTIVELY participating in pool. So I ask you Mark, what have you don't to contribute to pool? What makes you so much better than me??????????



CJ should be good to travel north now, his nuts will never be cold again.

--------------------------

>>>just for reference here is AZB's 2013 post of the year!

Originally Posted by SJDinPHX View Post

Having never been formerly introduced to Mr. Wiley, I feel I have come to know him through this forum...Using very little imagination, I do believe I know how a casual introduction might progress, if were we to meet someday, at, say DCC !



SJD.."Hi there, (I extend hand) my name is Dick"

CJ.."Why hello (grabs hand, pumps furiously, but avoids eye contact) my name is CJ Wiley"

SJD.."Yes, I thought I recognized you from your pictures"

CJ.."Well yes, (chuckles).. when you've won as many tournaments as I have, theres bound to be
a ton of pictures around."

SJD.."Actually, I meant YOUR pictures,..on the AZ for......" !

CJ.."I was also captain of the Mosconi Cup last year !..Can you believe they expected me to wear
that stupid team jacket ?..Those are NOT my most flattering colors !..What was your name again" ?

SJD.. "Dick, D-I-C-K...You may know me as 'San Jo........."

CJ.."Uh, nope, never heard of you..(looks perplexed)..Where ya from Rick ?... By the way, did you know I was also the 1996 ESPN World Champion" ?

SJD.."Seems to me, I hea......"

CJ.."I am also the originator of 'TOI', the greatest aid to pool player's ever invented ! Sorry I don't have time to give you a lesson now."

SJD.."Well, I may hav..."

CJ.."Do you play pool Dirk ?..No offense but you look like you might be old enough to have played a little 'two shot foul' nine ball"

SJD.."Yes I am, but I preffered to pla...."

CJ.."I thought so !.. Can you believe some idiot on the forums, is trying to say one pocket is a more difficult game to learn ?..How can anyone be that stupid" ?

SJD.."Well, I......"

CJ.."Did you know I was a black belt, at 'Tai Kwon Do', and a Martial Arts instructor" ?

SJD.."Yes, I believe I did hear someth........."

CJ.."Tiger, Michael Jordan and Mark Cuban, are my regular foursome at golf (when I can get away)..
I hate to disappoint them, but sometimes my business empire gets in the way"..Hank Haney has been coaching me, he says I'm definitely PGA tour material !

SJD.."Hmm, but......."

CJ.."They so enjoy my company, because I also know about all there is to know about 'The Supreme Being', the hereafter, the thereafter and other important stuff like that !"

SJD.."Very impressive, but what does that have to do wi.........."

CJ.."Well, its been nice meeting you Doug, but I have to run now..Mary wants to take some photos of me, with Buddy, Efren, Hopkins, Archer, and all the other greats of the game ! I don't have near enough pictures to wallpaper my house yet...We'll have to chat again some time."

SJD.."Yeah, its been ni........."

from
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showth...st+of+the+year

You're a young guy so you probably don't realize that a lot of folks here have been involved with pool on a deep level since before the internet existed as public access.

San Jose Dick was never the player that CJ is now. And he certainly never did anything anywhere close to what CJ has done for pool.

The funny thing is his parody of CJ that you find so funny contains all the truth that SJD can't erase. SJD is in fact a SUPER NOBODY outside of a very small group of people who knew him when he played good. CJ Wiley on the other hand is a pool star and he has many credits outside pool.

How you and others can hate on him is beyond me.

 

[prewarhero]

You should do a little research on what people value. Hint: Product given away for free is valued the least by all classes of society.

I would point you to a good book with a lot of research to back it up but I know how you feel about science and research.

This is true, but I will add that if agenda to simply promote pool or get this out there to create buzz for a bigger deal somewhere else than views are more important than sales. A free documentary youtube has been proven to be a more effective guerrilla marketing technique than selling the video to a handful of hardcore pool enthusiast. There are 80 people in my room's Thursday night league. There are some top regional players there too. I would guess 15-20% know who CJ is. Maybe 4% would buy the DVD (and that is being generous). Now, a free video on YouTube that is well promoted - could get close to 50% to view it.
A lot easier to motivate a market now.


Now let's back up a moment. Multiply this league by those in the country. Now how many TOI videos would he sell. 20x more?

"Perfect promoting" - ah not so much.

 

[punter]

This is true, but I will add that if agenda to simply promote pool or get this out there to create buzz for a bigger deal somewhere else than views are more important than sales. A free documentary youtube has been proven to be a more effective guerrilla marketing technique than selling the video to a handful of hardcore pool enthusiast. There are 80 people in my room's Thursday night league. There are some top regional players there too. I would guess 15-20% know who CJ is. Maybe 4% would buy the DVD (and that is being generous). Now, a free video on YouTube that is well promoted - could get close to 50% to view it.
A lot easier to motivate a market now.


Now let's back up a moment. Multiply this league by those in the country. Now how many TOI videos would he sell. 20x more?

"Perfect promoting" - ah not so much.

Everyone in business has to have money coming in at some point, your advice sounds good if the person can afford to give the stuff away free and wait a couple of years to reap the big benefits, maybe that is not the case.

 

[prewarhero]

Everyone in business has to have money coming in at some point, your advice sounds good if the person can afford to give the stuff away free and wait a couple of years to reap the big benefits, maybe that is not the case.

You are 100% correct. I even feel for someone that May or may not have money issues because they tried to do something they love. But then be honest about it. Don't post infinite posts trying to sell your wares and they turn around and say in the next breathe it is not about sales and you don't plan to make any money (yawn) that is is solely to promote pool- win or lose.

 

[punter]

You're a young guy so you probably don't realize that a lot of folks here have been involved with pool on a deep level since before the internet existed as public access.

San Jose Dick was never the player that CJ is now. And he certainly never did anything anywhere close to what CJ has done for pool.

The funny thing is his parody of CJ that you find so funny contains all the truth that SJD can't erase. SJD is in fact a SUPER NOBODY outside of a very small group of people who knew him when he played good. CJ Wiley on the other hand is a pool star and he has many credits outside pool.

How you and others can hate on him is beyond me.

Yeah, while most of the top players of the past were getting in the box and running out, SJD was picking up the box and runnihg out....to deliver it to his customers as a UPS worker.

SJD, who by most accounts was a top player, when he played, quit the game for about 20 years of his prime to earn a living. Most people respect a decision like this. But I think he is very fortunate to have made any pool hall of fame when he wasn't even playing for 20 of his prime years. Now he spends his time sniping at various targets for whatever reason. I guess some of you think it's funny and he certainly is very proud of it, as he started a thread about it over at onepocket.org. So, whatever floats your boat, I guess.

 

[one stroke]

You should do a little research on what people value. Hint: Product given away for free is valued the least by all classes of society.

I would point you to a good book with a lot of research to back it up but I know how you feel about science and research.

I beg to differ ,, I don't see starving people not valuing free food
I support any research that can be back up with facts ,, for instance many products give samplers for free ,, drug pushers give drugs away for free and also there is the free or your money back concept

In this case however we are talking about promotion not a product according to CJ that is not intended for profit just promotion ,, in this case free has no equal people come out if the woodwork for free stuff ,, a perfect case of this is inside pool magazines on the table at the SBE


1

 

[JB Cases]

Yeah, while most of the top players of the past were getting in the box and running out, SJD was picking up the box and runnihg out....to deliver it to his customers as a UPS worker.

SJD, who by most accounts was a top player, when he played, quit the game for about 20 years of his prime to earn a living. Most people respect a decision like this. But I think he is very fortunate to have made any pool hall of fame when he wasn't even playing for 20 of his prime years. Now he spends his time sniping at various targets for whatever reason. I guess some of you think it's funny and he certainly is very proud of it, as he started a thread about it over at onepocket.org. So, whatever floats your boat, I guess.

I respect the decision. But you can't have it both ways. If you quit then you can't very well cry about not getting the recognition that those who didn't quit earned in your absence.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I'm not sure what to talk about if it's not pool related......hmmm?

That's prob why Dick grabs at bar maid's tits. He prob initially went to autograph them when the girl said, "Why? Who are YOU!?!?" He prob then though, ahh hell...nowhere to go from here but grab'm and claim ignorance.

Sent from my Galaxy S4

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Yeah, while most of the top players of the past were getting in the box and running out, SJD was picking up the box and runnihg out....to deliver it to his customers as a UPS worker.

SJD, who by most accounts was a top player, when he played, quit the game for about 20 years of his prime to earn a living. Most people respect a decision like this. But I think he is very fortunate to have made any pool hall of fame when he wasn't even playing for 20 of his prime years. Now he spends his time sniping at various targets for whatever reason. I guess some of you think it's funny and he certainly is very proud of it, as he started a thread about it over at onepocket.org. So, whatever floats your boat, I guess.

At least I said what everyone was thinking but was afraid to speak up...he won a popularity contest. He shouldn't be in ANY HOF unless someone was giving him the tour.

Sent from my Galaxy S4

 

[JB Cases]

I beg to differ ,, I don't see starving people not valuing free food
I support any research that can be back up with facts ,, for instance many products give samplers for free ,, drug pushers give drugs away for free and also there is the free or your money back concept

In this case however we are talking about promotion not a product according to CJ that is not intended for profit just promotion ,, in this case free has no equal people come out if the woodwork for free stuff ,, a perfect case of this is inside pool magazines on the table at the SBE


1

Again I won't confuse you with actual research. It might skew your world view too much and cause an embolism from the stress.

I will just say this, I once thought as you did, somewhat. Now I know otherwise. Data is so powerful. Really opens my eyes once I see it and can see it applied to the real world.

Reading helps a lot to challenge one's assumptions. Reading non-fiction books backed by science, studies and data expands one's knowledge of what is as opposed to what is assumed to be.

 

[CJ Wiley]

.this applies to many examples in life, from free food, to free drinks,to free advice

Everyone in business has to have money coming in at some point, your advice sounds good if the person can afford to give the stuff away free and wait a couple of years to reap the big benefits, maybe that is not the case.

Yes, "free" is very expensive in the long run.

When "things" are given away they lose their value.....this applies to many examples in life, from free food, to free drinks, to free advice.

Sporting events are used as a "marketing vehicle," and they produce revenue....this is the reality of how they produce television revenue and grow their sport....pool is no exception.

 

[one stroke]

Again I won't confuse you with actual research. It might skew your world view too much and cause an embolism from the stress.

I will just say this, I once thought as you did, somewhat. Now I know otherwise. Data is so powerful. Really opens my eyes once I see it and can see it applied to the real world.

Reading helps a lot to challenge one's assumptions. Reading non-fiction books backed by science, studies and data expands one's knowledge of what is as opposed to what is assumed to be.

Your a long ways away from confusing me in fact it may be the other way around ,, we are talking promoting a product and yes promotional free products to lure potential buys in has long been a effective tool ,, free food at half time of games brings patrons to the bar ,, free pool with lunch also another very effective way to bring players in to play
Time shares giving away free merchandise another prime example
I could go on forever with examples of this and yes there is plenty of research that backs this up ,, whats the best pool free pool heard it a thousand times

Nice try though
1

 

[The Saw]

At least I said what everyone was thinking but was afraid to speak up...he won a popularity contest. He shouldn't be in ANY HOF unless someone was giving him the tour.

Sent from my Galaxy S4

Exactly.... Funny, but the first couple of senior players I asked about SJD years ago laughed. I asked because of seeing him in the one pocket book. They both said that they must have been short on pics......

 

[CJ Wiley]

I can only imagine what it takes to be in one of the top bands of all time.

The hater count total is 4, a "shortstop" from who cares, and 3 others that aint never been there or done that's...I wouldn't be to concerned CJ. Anyone that means anything has respect for what you have done for pool in your career. My respect remains with the pro where I can learn things to improve my game, and thanks for this recent piece of history. It fits nicely with my accu-stats collection!!

Thanks, I appreciate that, Mark. I can only imagine what it takes to be in one of the top bands of all time. I'm sure you've had a few stalkers in your time, but I have a feeling the "groupies" may have made up for it a time or two. ROCK ON!

 

[JB Cases]

Your a long ways away from confusing me in fact it may be the other way around ,, we are talking promoting a product and yes promotional free products to lure potential buys in has long been a effective tool ,, free food at half time of games brings patrons to the bar ,, free pool with lunch also another very effective way to bring players in to play
Time shares giving away free merchandise another prime example
I could go on forever with examples of this and yes there is plenty of research that backs this up ,, whats the best pool free pool heard it a thousand times

Nice try though
1

You're the guy that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

 

[one stroke]

You're the guy that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Again Einstein we are not talking the value or selling anything we are talking about luring in people to get interested in pool

1

 

[CJ Wiley]

TV creates an economy that won't exist without it-Pro Pool is a great sample example

You're the guy that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

That's funny, even dancers know better than to give away something good for free.

Free = No Perceived Value Which Leads to No Demand

Some people mistakenly think playing on TV is "free" because you don't have to pay to see it.....this is FAR from the truth, TV creates an economy that won't exist without it. Professional Pool is a great "sample example" of this right now. Back in the 90s several of us were making BIG money from pool, Earl Strickland was making over $200,000 a year on endorsements because of........?.....you got it, ESPN and other TV Productions that we did....sponsors benefit from getting out in front of millions of people......they don't on "free" internet broadcasts, so the top pool player now makes about $500 a month average.

'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[JB Cases]

Again Einstein we are not talking the value or selling anything we are talking about luring in people to get interested in pool

1

And you have the magic answer? You know more about what it will take to get more people playing than CJ?

Let's recap for the readers shall we?

CJ Wiley: Road player -----> Top five professional player -----> Owned very successful poolrooms/nightclubs/restaurants --------->founder of a professional player's association -------> promoter who staged several great tour stops including the legendary million dollar 11 pack.

You-Mark Andrews ???? B-player who occasionally plays A-speed (your words) who has observed a bunch of better players throughout the years.

Me: Been gambling on pool since I was 12, in the pool business since I was 18, owned my own room when I was 25, owned my own cue case making businesses since I was 22.

Yeah I have no problem believing that you have just the solution to save pool. Give it all away, brilliant strategy.

Again, I'd recommend some books for you but I think you probably haven't read one for a long time and probably don't intend to let knowledge and data interfere with your opinions now.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

so the top pool player now makes about $500 a month average.

Wow, one of my investments makes more than double that in a month. And I do zero to receive it.

Maybe some of the Pros should have invested properly instead of at the Craps Table.

CJ, most of them are in the position they are in now because of their own doing, not because the entire world was trying to be mean to them.

Altho, you might have trouble convincing most of them on that point.

So, apparently you are trying hard to put pool back in its proper place. What are the Pros doing to help out and what will they do in the future to help you or any other. I'll tell you what. A big Zero.

Nothing has changed and nothing will change.

 

[CJ Wiley]

TV is the difference.

We certainly know how to get millions of new faces playing pool.....why else would it be worthwhile? Bowling has 6 million participants and pool has less than One Million? There's something really wrong with those statistics, and TV is the difference.

And you have the magic answer? You know more about what it will take to get more people playing than CJ?

Let's recap for the readers shall we?

CJ Wiley: Road player -----> Top five professional player -----> Owned very successful poolrooms/nightclubs/restaurants --------->founder of a professional player's association -------> promoter who staged several great tour stops including the legendary million dollar 11 pack.

You-Mark Andrews ???? B-player who occasionally plays A-speed (your words) who has observed a bunch of better players throughout the years.

Me: Been gambling on pool since I was 12, in the pool business since I was 18, owned my own room when I was 25, owned my own cue case making businesses since I was 22.

Yeah I have no problem believing that you have just the solution to save pool. Give it all away, brilliant strategy.

Again, I'd recommend some books for you but I think you probably haven't read one for a long time and probably don't intend to let knowledge and data interfere with your opinions now.