Pro Pool Does Not Exist

[Jaden]

that's why my idea would be...

It's a very attractive idea, except it would make the handicapping problem even bigger (i.e. more money at stake, the more likely people are to sandbag). Of course, the answer is always "a better handicapping system", but no handicapping system can outdo a person determined to cheat it.

That's why my idea would be that all player's in top 16-20 would be semi pro's and all players in the top 5-8 would be pro's.

There would be other caveats, i.e. has to be a running 4 tourney average, etc..

That way there would be no way to finish high consistently and NOT be moved up and if someone HASN'T been playing(I know no player has ever been playing if you ask them) and they aren't doing well on the tour, they can be moved down. Starting ranking would be TD discretion, etc...

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

I wasn't referring to pro pool here.

Its only in this country that Pro Pool has been floundering, In the Philippines, Europe, Asia and many other countries there is a healthy effort to increase the level of exposure to the game and the money will follow.

I was referring to leagues. Leagues are stagnant. When someone comes along and markets pro pool to the leagues in the right way, it will grow the league and take market share away from other leagues that are happy with stagnation. The side effect of that will be that interest in pro pool will grow as well and then the league can use the pros involved in the league as a marketing strategy to increase league membership even further.

Jaden

 

[CJ Wiley]

trying to be a "pro carpenter" and the nearest hammer and nails are in Europe

It's tough to be a "pro player" when there's no pro tournaments and very little gambling currently in the United States. That's like trying to be a "pro carpenter" and the nearest hammer and nails are in Europe and Asia.

Show me an income tax return with a positive adjusted gross income from no other activity than playing pool and I'll show you a pro.

I bet that group is pretty exclusive and does not include the majority of our "pros"

JC

 

[Neil]

That's why my idea would be that all player's in top 16-20 would be semi pro's and all players in the top 5-8 would be pro's.

There would be other caveats, i.e. has to be a running 4 tourney average, etc..

That way there would be no way to finish high consistently and NOT be moved up and if someone HASN'T been playing(I know no player has ever been playing if you ask them) and they aren't doing well on the tour, they can be moved down. Starting ranking would be TD discretion, etc...

Jaden

That would work out real well for sponsorship. Get a major company to sponsor a pro event that can only have 8 pros in the entire country. For some reason, I think they are looking for a larger market to sponsor to.

 

[Jaden]

no that's for one region...

That would work out real well for sponsorship. Get a major company to sponsor a pro event that can only have 8 pros in the entire country. For some reason, I think they are looking for a larger market to sponsor to.

You can have 5-6 regions nation wide and 30-40 ranked pros and another 60-70 ranked semi pros. I wouldn't even label it that way...

I would label it, tier 1, tier 2 pros. The wording would matter for marketing purposes but for little else.

Jaden

p.s. You could have 2-4 national events where the regional pros would come together and compete. This gives more events regionally for expenses to be more manageable for players and gives cohesiveness for potential sponsors. You get the top 20 or so players from 6 regions and you're right at a 128 player field for the national events.

 

[Neil]

You can have 5-6 regions nation wide and 30-40 ranked pros and another 60-70 ranked semi pros. I wouldn't even label it that way...

I would label it, tier 1, tier 2 pros. The wording would matter for marketing purposes but for little else.

Jaden

If you can find it, look at the payouts of a pro golf tournament sometime. Well over 100 that make it in the money. Last one I looked at payed down to at least 150th place. No idea how many participated that didn't get payed. Sponsors want numbers. The more the better.

 

[Jaden]

Hell...

Hell, you could even do a mosconi cup style format where the top 5 players from each region form a team to compete against each other. It would give our top players more experience competing in that format for when the mosconi cup comes along and will give a better view of who works best on a team for mosconi cup team selection.

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

Sorry...

If you can find it, look at the payouts of a pro golf tournament sometime. Well over 100 that make it in the money. Last one I looked at payed down to at least 150th place. No idea how many participated that didn't get payed. Sponsors want numbers. The more the better.

We need a starting point, you can't compare pool in the state it is in to Golf and the state it is in right now.

Nothing starts out on top. It takes a building up.

Jaden

 

[JC]

It's tough to be a "pro player" when there's no pro tournaments and very little gambling currently in the United States. That's like trying to be a "pro carpenter" and the nearest hammer and nails are in Europe and Asia.

I wasn't trying to be negative, just agreeing with the title of the thread.

JC

 

[King T]

Got it.

I was referring to leagues. Leagues are stagnant. When someone comes along and markets pro pool to the leagues in the right way, it will grow the league and take market share away from other leagues that are happy with stagnation. The side effect of that will be that interest in pro pool will grow as well and then the league can use the pros involved in the league as a marketing strategy to increase league membership even further.

Jaden

That would work.

 

[King T]

I agree!

We need a starting point, you can't compare pool in the state it is in to Golf and the state it is in right now.

Nothing starts out on top. It takes a building up.

Jaden

Build it and they will come..., especially if theres no other competition!

 

[Banks]

I was referring to leagues. Leagues are stagnant. When someone comes along and markets pro pool to the leagues in the right way, it will grow the league and take market share away from other leagues that are happy with stagnation. The side effect of that will be that interest in pro pool will grow as well and then the league can use the pros involved in the league as a marketing strategy to increase league membership even further.

Jaden

The alternative POV is that when something comes along that can recycle money into pool in a sustainable manner, it could work. As long as there's enough upward growth, a "pro pool" scene should grow on its own. I'm putting something together in a few months and have talked to a few locations. Crossing my fingers that it works. There's little good reason that there can't be a system that pays back more than it takes in. If it becomes popular, that's when marketing begins.

MLB, NBA, etc.. between operating costs and salaries, I highly doubt they're in the black after ticket sales alone. Probably approaching neutral and on the negative side, if not only halfway there.

 

[King T]

Well..,

Show me an income tax return with a positive adjusted gross income from no other activity than playing pool and I'll show you a pro.

I bet that group is pretty exclusive and does not include the majority of our "pros"

JC

You could say the same thing about a lot of peoples jobs that aren't making a living wage and are still putting in 40hrs or more, the working poor.

 

[CJ Wiley]

On the very last page there's small print that simply says:

Wouldn't it be funny if our life was all predestined, and before entering the world we were given a manual on our "chosen trade" in life. We see the carpenters get their manual, and the lawyers get theres.....next are the doctors, electricians, plumbers, etc.

You reach the front of the line and are handed a giant, 300 page manual with the words "Professional Pool Player" on the cover. Excited, you take the manual to a table to study, open it up and there's 299 blank pages.

On the very last page there's small print that simply says:

"We have no directions, you will have to figure this one out on your own, the game will be your teacher!!!"

I wasn't trying to be negative, just agreeing with the title of the thread.

JC

 

[lost]

You could say the same thing about a lot of peoples jobs that aren't making a living wage and are still putting in 40hrs or more, the working poor.

Except they get paid every day they work, and don't refer to themselves as "professional" fry cooks, and almost all still earn more than 95% of "pro" pool players when all is said and done.
Here is what the retirement plan is for "pro" pool players....try to find a woman who actually has a job.

 

[King T]

Your wrong about one thing..,

If you can find it, look at the payouts of a pro golf tournament sometime. Well over 100 that make it in the money. Last one I looked at payed down to at least 150th place. No idea how many participated that didn't get payed. Sponsors want numbers. The more the better.

Sponsors do want numbers, but not numbers of participants, they want numbers of spectators. The rodeo doesn't have large fields, nor does bass fishing, darts or volley ball, they just have followings that can be marketed to and that's all sponsors care about.

 

[King T]

Well..,

Except they get paid every day they work, and don't refer to themselves as "professional" fry cooks, and almost all still earn more than 95% of "pro" pool players when all is said and done.
Here is what the retirement plan is for "pro" pool players....try to find a woman who actually has a job.

I get your point, but my point is that it aint just the money that makes you a pro or not, ask the rodeo guys or the dart pro's or the horse shoe guys, etc...,

If the Pro Pool players would find a way to supplement their incomes, (even part time work) then they would have a better attitude towards the game and the amateur players, that would help the image of the game also.

If it doesn't pay you well, its a hobby and you have t support it somehow or not do it.

 

[krupa]

I was referring to leagues. Leagues are stagnant. When someone comes along and markets pro pool to the leagues in the right way, it will grow the league and take market share away from other leagues that are happy with stagnation. The side effect of that will be that interest in pro pool will grow as well and then the league can use the pros involved in the league as a marketing strategy to increase league membership even further.

Jaden

How do you define stagnant? I live in a town with no poolrooms but we have 3 APA divisions and 2 NAPA divisions.

 

[Banks]

How do you define stagnant? I live in a town with no poolrooms but we have 3 APA divisions and 2 NAPA divisions.

Unchanging. Pretty much all of the leagues run off of the same kind of template. Some skim a little more here and there, others a little less. But, other than some minor differences, they're all about the same.

 

[Jaden]

I already did define it.

How do you define stagnant? I live in a town with no poolrooms but we have 3 APA divisions and 2 NAPA divisions.

In a market economy, it's all about growth. Stagnant means exactly that, not growing.

It doesn't matter how much you have currently, it's about growth.

I tend to not agree with that mindset because there's only so far you can grow. Pool hasn't come any where close to it's growth limit yet though.

Jaden