Jerry Forsyth
Well-known member
Please use this forum to express positive ideas for assisting the growth of professional pool in America.
Pro Pool in America
- Thread starter Jerry Forsyth
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Jerry Forsyth said:
Well, I think the popularity of Poker and Golf has shown us that people in north america can enjoy a sport/game without fast action and breaking bones.
Furthermore I believe the statistic is that 50 million people play pool regularily in the US. If this statistic is correct or even close to being true, then there has to be a market for the game somewhere.
I think one of the problems is, we haven't got any household names, thus there isn't anyone to draw the public. Often for people to enjoy watching a sport, the audience has to care who wins. As it stands, aficianados will watch for the sake of watching pool, which isn't enough people to create a new tour out of.
Personally I enjoy watching golf, but I will rarely watch the nationwide tour, as I want to see Phil Mickleson, Vijay Singh, Mike Weir and of course Tiger Woods.
Snooker became popular in England due to the Pot Black show. The Ultimate Fighter introduced us to the UFC, and we learned about the upcoming fighters on the show and everyone got to know each shows respective coaches.
One potential idea is to have a weekly show that spends a substantial amount of time, introducing us to the players involved in the match at hand. And by substantial I mean more than 23 seconds. It's very simplistic but given a decent timeslot, and a provocative presentation it couldn't hurt.
I do not believe people can't enjoy pool because it looks too easy. This assumes that everyone outside of the pool world is hopelessly foolish. Anyone who has ever played the game knows that they can't repeat what is being shown on the television.
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I also think ten ball is the discipline to further pool's growth. Nine ball just looks too easy sometimes and gives the wrong impression. A soft cut break and three balls down and watching a player make six hangers over the hole doesn't help the game. Pool is arguably the toughest game on the planet to master and we need a game that reflects that.
after watching plenty of action report events and coverage recently, it's become apparent to me that ten ball should be the main game on diamond tables. you need a good break too, which people like to see.
if pool could just get say a couple of matches on a week in a half decent timeslot i think it'd be a start. Nothing fancy, just a full race to 10-15 say with two top players and two good commentators to discuss the shots and the game.
An idea would be the action report producing regular matches for television. Just say 90 mins once/twice a week of SVB versus corey or something with billy and grady in the box. Nothing fancy or overblown on the production side either, just as it is on the dvd's with an introduction and a couple of interviews with the players.
people would enjoy watching a good solid high class match with intelligent commentary i think. to teach them about the game. people would be interested. as disillusioned as we can all get with society sometimes, i still feel the public would enjoy a simple, intelligently presented programme without all the razmatazz and dumbing down for tv.
it would be a completely different offering to the WPBA broadcasts too. no mitch lawrence creaming his pants over a two inch draw shot with a hanger in the middle pocket. people know the game is being dumbed down for them, they are not stupid. but they will still watch because the attraction with the women's game is just that - they are women.
after watching plenty of action report events and coverage recently, it's become apparent to me that ten ball should be the main game on diamond tables. you need a good break too, which people like to see.
if pool could just get say a couple of matches on a week in a half decent timeslot i think it'd be a start. Nothing fancy, just a full race to 10-15 say with two top players and two good commentators to discuss the shots and the game.
An idea would be the action report producing regular matches for television. Just say 90 mins once/twice a week of SVB versus corey or something with billy and grady in the box. Nothing fancy or overblown on the production side either, just as it is on the dvd's with an introduction and a couple of interviews with the players.
people would enjoy watching a good solid high class match with intelligent commentary i think. to teach them about the game. people would be interested. as disillusioned as we can all get with society sometimes, i still feel the public would enjoy a simple, intelligently presented programme without all the razmatazz and dumbing down for tv.
it would be a completely different offering to the WPBA broadcasts too. no mitch lawrence creaming his pants over a two inch draw shot with a hanger in the middle pocket. people know the game is being dumbed down for them, they are not stupid. but they will still watch because the attraction with the women's game is just that - they are women.
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Cameron...It's not correct. The 40,000,000+ figure refers to SGMA numbers of people who have played pool at least once in the past year. The more accurate figure that you're looking for is somewhere around 10%...or 4-5 million REGULAR players...those being defined as someone who probably plays weekly or better, but at least once a month. That's still a good size audience, and a significant market share for potential advertisers, if they can be reached somehow.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Cameron Smith said:
......in a co-operative manner without forcing them into a rigid, pre-determined box.
I recommend you remove this agressive statement from the front page....
I recommend you remove this agressive statement from the front page....
......in a co-operative manner without forcing them into a rigid, pre-determined box.
FYI......I HIGHLY recommend you REMOVE this agressive statement from the main event on the AZ front page....
FYI......I HIGHLY recommend you REMOVE this agressive statement from the main event on the AZ front page....
I think the APA and other similar leagues have a golden opportunity to promote the game on a local level that would generate greater interest in pool as a sport. Every cable operator in the country is required to offer a local access channel at no charge. In our market, we have a city tournament 3 times a year. How great would it be to have live coverage of local area teams competing for the chance to represent our area at the nationals in Vegas? How many players would be encouraging their friends and family to watch them on tv competing? As someone pointed out, viewers need to have someone to pull for. If a team from Matthews is playing a team from Statesville, the local flavor would be a great asset.
I think building public recognition from the ground up would create a more solid foundation for viewership. Once people start watching the top local players, I believe there would be more interest in regional and top level professional events.
MJ....have you ever considered televising Viking events in the local markets where you hold events? Since air time is free, the only costs would be video production.
Steve
I think building public recognition from the ground up would create a more solid foundation for viewership. Once people start watching the top local players, I believe there would be more interest in regional and top level professional events.
MJ....have you ever considered televising Viking events in the local markets where you hold events? Since air time is free, the only costs would be video production.
Steve
Island Drive said:
I didn't write the story but I dont not see it as aggressive. Please explain ?
"Janis is remaining fairly mum about the details of his plan as he does not wish to put the BCA in a position where they cannot alter his framework. He wants to be able to work out the fine details with them in a co-operative manner without forcing them into a rigid, pre-determined box."
To me it states exectly what it says. I left the framework open ended so if the BCA is interested in supporting this it gives them an opportunity to help mold it to suit their interests for the BCA members. I just don't see how that is an agressive ststement.
Mj
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Jerry Forsyth said:
Jerry I agree 10000% there has been too much BS here about nothing, and while thats part of pool, and is fun it dosent do anything to perserve what little the pro players have or benefit them, You know aw well as anyone that anyone involved in the business end of pool comes here, top cue makers, professional players, the whole A list crown, but dont post they come here to see where the players heads are at, not the pro's but the majority of the market A,B,C players league players. But with all the BS it gets diffucult for them to seoperate the wheat from the chaff, so having an area for Mike Janis, you, Cardone, Jay Helfert(when he is being serious
) should be here on AZ, there are people that can contribute valuable information to get people all on the same page or have spiritted discussion and come to terms so some progress can be made, I could too to a very limited extent, alot of people here could. And keep it professional, sure we like to talk shit but there is a time and a place, and a forum that would be the no bullshit zone I think would be good, and let the general forum be the shit zone, just my 3 cents, it was 2 but with inflation I raised it to 3 cents. thanks for listining,p.s with all the pool rooms droppig like flys thats really gonna hurt the product distrbuters, vendors etc. There could be alot of useful information on how to keep the surviving rooms alive and benefit those owners. having a resourceful place for people to come too would be the plan.
I like the idea of a weekly show with two name players and two name player/commentators like Danny D or Grady, Billy Incardona, Buddy, Jay, Freddy, Fred Agnir, The TAR guys, Mark Wilson, Jeanette Lee, Allison, Karen, Sarah, etc.
I think part of the show could be aimed at beginners. During the match when remarkable shots are made or excellent position play is exhibited the commentators could go to a table and show the public how the shot was executed, i.e. exactly how a certain amount of side and bottom english caused a certain amount of unnatural angle for the cue ball to take. Then the beginner/average player/novice/banger/housewife could see what it takes to be a decent player. They could be shown how a shot would have come out if it was hit center ball and how it came out with the pros action on the cb. They'd come to understand the amount of skill that goes into makeing the game look so easy.
That's what I think might sell the 2 or 3 or 5 handicap league player and might create some interest in going to the ph to try some of that stuff. They might actually practice!!
I think part of the show could be aimed at beginners. During the match when remarkable shots are made or excellent position play is exhibited the commentators could go to a table and show the public how the shot was executed, i.e. exactly how a certain amount of side and bottom english caused a certain amount of unnatural angle for the cue ball to take. Then the beginner/average player/novice/banger/housewife could see what it takes to be a decent player. They could be shown how a shot would have come out if it was hit center ball and how it came out with the pros action on the cb. They'd come to understand the amount of skill that goes into makeing the game look so easy.
That's what I think might sell the 2 or 3 or 5 handicap league player and might create some interest in going to the ph to try some of that stuff. They might actually practice!!
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I do not really see that statement as aggressive either.
I would suggest a good grass roots effort to get local pool halls and bars/leagues to advertise the tour. People can not participate in something if they do not hear about it.
Cameron,
The idea of a reality based pool show has been talked about fairly frequently on here. I think this would be a great idea. Especially if the contestants were coached by one of the greats, and the regular watcher could gather some instruction that they may be itching to try out after the show. If it actually helped them, they may be more likely to continue play. Pool is a very difficult game to become proficient at it, and when you first start out, it is frustrating enough to push most away fairly quickly. Success at some level will help people want to play more. Overall, I think it would be a great idea. Any media helps. Just look what the COM did for pool when it came out.
Beef,
I disagree with the 10 ball idea. I know it is a popular idea here, but the avg player can barely sink 2-3 balls in a row in 9 ball, so why make it harder. Anyone who picks up a stick to do what they see on tv will quickly realize that 9 ball is not too easy. If we want hard breaks, create rules to outlaw the soft break, some are out there already.
I would suggest a good grass roots effort to get local pool halls and bars/leagues to advertise the tour. People can not participate in something if they do not hear about it.
Cameron,
The idea of a reality based pool show has been talked about fairly frequently on here. I think this would be a great idea. Especially if the contestants were coached by one of the greats, and the regular watcher could gather some instruction that they may be itching to try out after the show. If it actually helped them, they may be more likely to continue play. Pool is a very difficult game to become proficient at it, and when you first start out, it is frustrating enough to push most away fairly quickly. Success at some level will help people want to play more. Overall, I think it would be a great idea. Any media helps. Just look what the COM did for pool when it came out.
Beef,
I disagree with the 10 ball idea. I know it is a popular idea here, but the avg player can barely sink 2-3 balls in a row in 9 ball, so why make it harder. Anyone who picks up a stick to do what they see on tv will quickly realize that 9 ball is not too easy. If we want hard breaks, create rules to outlaw the soft break, some are out there already.
Growing
I am an avid player of this game and think this is beautiful game to watch when you see players in dead stroke in a televised match. However, I also believe if you have no understanding of the game it would seem boring. How many non golf players will watch golf?
I think we need to start from the bottom and the leagues are doing a good job of it by bringing new players into feild. While we may not be developing professional pool players we certainly are producing fans of the game and people who can watch that match and understand the beauty of it.
If you look at the APA for instance they have a 23 rule. From a business pespective this is a business plan. Form a team and keep handicaps under 23 for five players. The players get better and the team has to split then both teams go out and recruit new players that may have never played. This is called growth.
Jerry Forsyth said:
I am an avid player of this game and think this is beautiful game to watch when you see players in dead stroke in a televised match. However, I also believe if you have no understanding of the game it would seem boring. How many non golf players will watch golf?
I think we need to start from the bottom and the leagues are doing a good job of it by bringing new players into feild. While we may not be developing professional pool players we certainly are producing fans of the game and people who can watch that match and understand the beauty of it.
If you look at the APA for instance they have a 23 rule. From a business pespective this is a business plan. Form a team and keep handicaps under 23 for five players. The players get better and the team has to split then both teams go out and recruit new players that may have never played. This is called growth.
Steve...Having been in the "cable biz" years ago, I feel somewhat qualified to respond here. While it's true that the local cable operator is required to offer a 'local access' channel, they are not required to provide the necessary equipment or funding to produce the 'local' events you're talking about. I agree that it would do a lot to enhance pool on a local level, but you'd have to come up with a way to fund it, including the production crew required to pull it off. The APA national organization would seem like the place to go with something like this. I would guess that if you took a miniscule $.10 from each APA weekly player fee, that would provide hundreds of thousands of dollars...plenty to produce these kinds of t.v. programs...at least for the "city cup" level, if not regional and national too. just my two cents!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
pooltchr said:
I have said this before, the sport needs characters as well as tv. Earl is a character. Please take the time and go to youtube.com in your serch type in "When Snooker Ruled The World" it will take 1 hour to watch the whole thing but it is in 6 parts. So obviously look for part one. then the rest will show up. This shows you how Snooker began and how it became popular. Did you know that when they began Pot Black the forst snooker show it was broadcast in black and white. I mean COME ON if snooker in black and white can make it we have a shot right????
mantis99 said:
Forcing...I feel is a poorly chosen word...thats all...I'm just trying to make sure there are NO waves made before hand, otherwise I like 99.9% of what's said, you guys asked me what I think, I responded
Island Drive said:
But the article states "without forcing them"
Her is the entire sentance.
"He wants to be able to work out the fine details with them in a co-operative manner without forcing them into a rigid, pre-determined box."
It basically states " Hey, here is a plan, if you like it great. If not, what changes do you suggest be made that would suit you better. I' open for options. "
I guess in my previous post, what I am saying is that TV time alone will not do it. The players have to try and come out of their shells a little. It's hard when you are trying to focus on the match but there has to be a reason for the average Joe to either love a player or hate a player for reasons other than they can run the table.worriedbeef said:
Cameron Smith said:
I really like this idea. Let's see...
A weekly or twice weekly show that comes on the same time every week, so everyone knows when and where to find it...
A little background info on the players...
A few simple lessons in each week's show, which should help the newbie learn the game, the casual player get better at the game, and the really good player get another person's point of view.
Put this on free tv, not espn. Not everyone can afford to pay and a lot of everyday pool players don't have time for tv, so they don't see the need to pay for something they don't use... or they don't have the money for it, because they used it for pool league.
I don't like the idea of APA games, but that's my personal preference. I just don't agree with some of the ways they try to "balance" things. If you tried explaining some of their ideas to the general public as part of the game, they'd turn the channel, because it wouldn't be worth their time to figure out what the heck is going on. It's like trying to figure out how to do your taxes. It is just too confusing. As I said, that's my preference and it's really what I believe, as far as how the public would perceive it.
I just think simpler will bring more viewers, as long as you don't get too basic. (Assuming your audience is a bunch of dummies who never play pool would be disastrous!) You want to intrigue the audience with class and simplicity, not scare them off with too many rules or other things to understand. If the game seems to complicated, they won't stay.