Pro Pool in America

hi

i just watched the world snooker championships a few days ago from 2004.thats the way to show a tourney.they do extensive interviews with the players ,they let you get to know them.also in between frames the commentators explain how and why they shot a shot like they did.they give massive amounts of stats and records and past clips and soundbites from the players playing or about to play to build the exitement.it also does not hurt when they say so and so has made 6 million pounds in the last ten years in his career.these snooker players are respected but believe me if they only made 16 thousand a year no body would look at them like superstars.trust me you can put shane van boning on tv everday for a year straight,but when the audience sees that first place is only 10-20 thousand the first thing they think is i sure as hell am not going to give two shits about watching or becoming great at pool.
 
That's What I'm Known For.... My THINKING

Cameron Smith said:
One potential idea is to have a weekly show that spends a substantial amount of time, introducing us to the players involved in the match at hand. And by substantial I mean more than 23 seconds. It's very simplistic but given a decent timeslot, and a provocative presentation it couldn't hurt.
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Here was an idea that I had nine years ago in a land far away: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/msg/90806c3c63bd43e4

Doug
 
bfdlad said:
I have said this before, the sport needs characters as well as tv. Earl is a character. Please take the time and go to youtube.com in your serch type in "When Snooker Ruled The World" it will take 1 hour to watch the whole thing but it is in 6 parts. So obviously look for part one. then the rest will show up. This shows you how Snooker began and how it became popular. Did you know that when they began Pot Black the forst snooker show it was broadcast in black and white. I mean COME ON if snooker in black and white can make it we have a shot right????
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When Snooker Ruled The World
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vi5tBd-xw1g&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pLxkYhM5sbE&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2ylcK05Y57Q&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=S_nU1O-k-44&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z3l_5aXxS4M&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PuW7OlzmasU&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2YdgCsW6IrU&mode=related&search=
 
Please, realize that what I'm about to write is in no way meant to be insulting to the many first rate professional pool players thruout the world. It's just a sampling of the attitude that many people have about pool and it's players.

I have a Chinese friend that is a excellent tennis player, several years ago when he learned that I was playing in pool tournaments he said something insulting about the game and the people that play it. I replied that I thought that pool was very popular in China, and his reply was "in China only low-lifes play pool" Of course, I no longer value his opinion, nor his friendship very much.

Now, only a few months ago I was having trouble with my computer and when I called tech support, I reached a young sounding gentleman in the Philippines. While talking with him I asked if he played pool and he said that he didn't, but he was familiar with Reyes and some other well known players there. So, I asked him if the game was mainstream, or limited to a subculture. Well, he actually said that it was limited to the subculture, not respected mainstream.

And lastly, about ten years ago I proudly mentioned to my ailing, now deceased, Mother, that I had won two pool tournaments that week...her reply: "pool?, that's a bums sport". (please no mother bashing).

I don't know exactly what any of this proves, if anything, but it seems to me that without a total change in the general attitudes of the general public pool is more likely to remain exactly where it is...far behind the rest of sports.

Unless an unified, quality, professional group of leaders (not KT) having one mindset, with the long term goal of promoting pool as a respectable, family oriented, mainstream sport, is formed without the gambling aspect included, pool will not change in that direction.

Pool must be included in schools at all levels, colleges must have competing teams with letters awarded and State championships. That will encourge scholorship money and respect. There must also be a better effort to have it included in the Olympics. And, of course, most old time road players, and hustlers, while extremely colorful, are not, IMO, exactly the same individuals capable of doing this. We need new, educated, articulate, representatives that have a mainstream appearance.

Without these, and other, changes, IMO pool remains exactly where it is.

PS: Of course, no one cares what people do privately.:rolleyes:

Jim
 
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The key seems to be getting TV aboard. I scan the listings for pool, but I'm a junkie. To build an audience, you'd need the channel surfers to decide to linger a while.

I agree with putting player "personality" on display. Nothing vulgar or crazy, but "close to the line". For example, Cindy & I Both get a kick out of the antics of "Ocho Cinco" of the Bengals...Chad Johnson. We also laugh when he's interviewed by the sideline girls.
 
Its amazing to me that players still have this rep. we have Alot of top layers who have families, hardly drink or smoke and still get the bad rep. SVB No drink, smoke or drugs, Archer same, Tony Crosby same, Rodney Morris Light drink no drugs, no smoke, These are some of the top pros in the sport that I know pesonally I think they are great role models for the young player coming up. We can look at Fotball, basketball etc and find drugs & booze very easy.
 
jimmyg said:
Please, realize that what I'm about to write is in no way meant to be insulting to the many first rate professional pool players thruout the world. It's just a sampling of the attitude that many people have about pool and it's players.

I have a Chinese friend that is a excellent tennis player, several years ago when he learned that I was playing in pool tournaments he said something insulting about the game and the people that play it. I replied that I thought that pool was very popular in China, and his reply was "in China only low-lifes play pool" Of course, I no longer value his opinion, nor his friendship very much.

Now, only a few months ago I was having trouble with my computer and when I called tech support, I reached a young sounding gentleman in the Philippines. While talking with him I asked if he played pool and he said that he didn't, but he was familiar with Reyes and some other well known players there. So, I asked him if the game was mainstream, or limited to a subculture. Well, he actually said that it was limited to the subculture, not respected mainstream.

And lastly, about ten years ago I proudly mentioned to my ailing, now deceased, Mother, that I had won two pool tournaments that week...her reply: "pool?, that's a bums sport". (please no mother bashing).

I don't know exactly what any of this proves, if anything, but it seems to me that without a total change in the general attitudes of the general public pool is more likely to remain exactly where it is...far behind the rest of sports.

Unless an unified, quality, professional group (not KT) of one mindset leaders is formed, with a long term approach to promoting pool as a mainstream sport without the gambling aspect included pool will not change in that direction.

Pool must be included in schools at all levels, colleges must have competing teams with letters awarded and State championships. That will encourge scholorship money and respect. There must also be a better effort to have it included in the Olympics. And, of course, most old time road players, and hustlers, while extremely colorful, are not, IMO, exactly the same individuals capable of doing this. We need new, educated, articulate, representatives that have a mainstream appearance.

Without these, and other, changes, IMO pool remains exactly where it is.

PS: Of course, no one cares what people do privately.:rolleyes:

Jim
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I do agree that the drinking, smoking, gambling image is in most minds, still. It is the image that pool is what you do down at the local barroom that we really have to overcome. FAMILY pool halls that manage to get folks to realize they exist are doing the best at this. We need a lot more of them. Raising the kids in the places where violence, smoking, gambling and drinking aren't allowed is something most parents want. Get the family support and you have a sport that will take off.
 
Bigkahuna said:
In the history of pool there has been a major resurgence after a hit movie about the game perhaps we need to produce the Hulster trilogy:rolleyes:
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Successful trilogy ideas.

Lord of the Balls.
Ball Wars.
Harry "Balls" Potter.
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Pool.

We prolly just need a movie with zero script that involves a naked Jessica Alba and Angelina Jolie wrestling on a pool table in a bar everytime there is a cue ball foul. Then of course on the third foul the crusty old rail bird (played by Fred Thompson) comes out and has a handy bucket of jello to throw on them. Then convince America that this scenerio is normal in a pool hall. Then everyone will come and play pool thinking that will happen "any minute".
Then of course the sequel where they match up on the snooker table, and the third movie on the 3-Cushion table.....wait for it.........in 3D!!!!
 
OK......I'm going to have to say something.......How can we promote the game when everyone talks about 9-ball,10 ball,14.1,straight pool,etc.Sure there is 50 million people that play pool,but of that 50 million,45 million play 8 BALL.So please everyone,if pool is going to be a mega money making sport it HAS TO BE presented with the MASSES in mind.
How can you possibly get huge sponsors or attraction from the every day social pool player when all you see are games you have never played or heard of ?
I know what all the die hard pool players are going to think of this, BUT its time to wake up,pool will never be what pool should be until the pro's,the industry,the overall format switches over to 8 BALL.And Until that,people won't give a rats ass.
 
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My goof!

Jerry Forsyth said:
Please use this forum to express positive ideas for assisting the growth of professional pool in America.
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Jerry, I should have posted with you instead of starting a new thread.
Please see my thread.." At last someone is starting to make sense".
We are all trying to better our sport, kudos to you.
Dick
 
mantis99 said:
Beef,
I disagree with the 10 ball idea. I know it is a popular idea here, but the avg player can barely sink 2-3 balls in a row in 9 ball, so why make it harder. Anyone who picks up a stick to do what they see on tv will quickly realize that 9 ball is not too easy. If we want hard breaks, create rules to outlaw the soft break, some are out there already.
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or...if the average player can't make 3 in a row, 1 more is meaningless. BUT, to the Pros the breaking/racking/wingball issues are removed, and we NEVER have to hear the term "soft break" again! :D it's just a better game.

The billiards industry should NOT change a game (9ball breaks, 7ball :rolleyes: ) to make Joe Public happy, just find the right way to produce it. If all the folks around the world will watch Snooker, they will watch 10ball or whatever, but the same marketing may not work on Americans that worked for the UK and snooker.?
 
just one point for everyone who brings up snooker and it's success. the BBC. snooker's been very lucky in that it's had a state funded broadcasting organisation providing funding and hours of primetime coverage for years. unfortunately pool/america doesn't have this. without the BBC snooker would be in a very dire situation now, as was being forecast as recently as about a year and half ago.

or...if the average player can't make 3 in a row, 1 more is meaningless. BUT, to the Pros the breaking/racking/wingball issues are removed, and we NEVER have to hear the term "soft break" again! it's just a better game.

The billiards industry should NOT change a game to make Joe Public happy
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agreed. 9-ball is 9-ball. we shouldnt have to artificially try and force changes onto the game to improve it. just leave it for what it is. a great game, but flawed. so for the pro's and tournament play, 10 ball.

i mean how can you enforce a hard break in 9-ball really? a radar gun? a laser sensor to ensure a solid hit on the one ball is made? of course not.
they tried to enforce a hard break in the mosconi but it just ended up a cut break at speed to make the one in the side, and half the time they were giving up foul breaks because not enough balls had reached past the headstring. it looked silly.

ten ball by nature encourages you to break them hard and get a solid hit on the one, and also brings into play other key added elements such as more safety and a tougher run out.
 
It would be a big benefit if our industry could reach out to co's. outside our sport and co-sponsor a pool TV show. If people watch other people fishing I can see why they could draw an audience for pool. Having a decent amount of money given away each would be a big boost for the show.

Deal or no Deal comes to mind. It certainly is a mindless show with NO SKILL involved whatsoever !
 
jimmy-leggs said:
OK.......Sure there is 50 million people that play pool,but of that 50 million,45 million play 8 BALL.So please everyone,if pool is going to be a mega money making sport it HAS TO BE presented with the MASSES in mind....
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I have to agree with this one.
 
good post.

Cameron Smith said:
Well, I think the popularity of Poker and Golf has shown us that people in north america can enjoy a sport/game without fast action and breaking bones.QUOTE)

I agree with almost all of your post. There are "colorful people" in our sport
and we need to get them exposed. That will come. The media loves to talk to Michael Jordon or Tiger, but VJ and many others (lacking a better
way to put it) have no personality. We have no shortage of colorful
characters in cuesports. They will surface with exposure.
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I have been reading over this thread quite intensely. I see many ideas that involve TV and outside sponsorships. For those in that line of thought there is 1 BIG problem. Nobody wants us. Pool that is.

The big question that nobody seems to understand is HOW DO WE GET FROM HERE TO THERE (there being getting corporate sponsorships)

You need to understand that many promoters have tried and they have all failed to get and keep large outside industry sponsors. The basic problem as I see it is that we do not have much to sell them.

I have a plan to change that. It's a real good one and it will work if it gets off the ground with the funding from the BCA.

Instead of 1 promoter offering 1 TV event or 7 for that matter my system will offer large corporate sponsors nationwide advertising on hundreds of events each year which will include television, Internet, local distribution and on and on. After talking and negotiation with outside industry corporations I have found this is exactly what they want and are willing to pay for. They need large numbers and proof that those numbers exist.

In addition, I took what they (corporate sponsors) want and combined it what we have and what we (WE being the billiard industry and sport) need and put it in a simple little package that is easy to understand and sell to everyone.

The big problem with my and everyones else's ideas that would help the sport lies in the funding and longevity to get thing rolling. It's easy to talk about TV events but it is extremely difficult to come up with the $150-175K need to produce the events.

My plan puts all of the factors into play. Its a plan that I have been working on for 4 solid years and it will take up to the next 5 years to fully implement so it can sustain its self.

One of the main goals of the system I am proposing calls for cooperation among many in the billiard industry including players, rooms, pro-shops, manufactures, the fans and the promoters. Through this cooperation we can streamline our effirts to compliment each other and build our sport to the highest possible level.

For the next few months until the BCA Trade Expo in June I ask that everyone here work together for this one goal and only this one goal. If it is achieved, everyone in our sport will share in the benefits.

Mj
 
Island Drive said:
......in a co-operative manner without forcing them into a rigid, pre-determined box.

FYI......I HIGHLY recommend you REMOVE this agressive statement from the main event on the AZ front page....
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I totally agree.
 
jimmy-leggs said:
OK......I'm going to have to say something.......How can we promote the game when everyone talks about 9-ball,10 ball,14.1,straight pool,etc.Sure there is 50 million people that play pool,but of that 50 million,45 million play 8 BALL.So please everyone,if pool is going to be a mega money making sport it HAS TO BE presented with the MASSES in mind.
How can you possibly get huge sponsors or attraction from the every day social pool player when all you see are games you have never played or heard of ?
I know what all the die hard pool players are going to think of this, BUT its time to wake up,pool will never be what pool should be until the pro's,the industry,the overall format switches over to 8 BALL.And Until that,people won't give a rats ass.
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I agree Jimmy. 95% of mainstream USA thinks of 8-ball when it thinks of pool. As far as pool being alive in the USA...I believe it is with the millions of APA, TAP, BCA, and social players we have now. So what we're all really talking about is how can we help the pro player make enough money and be showcased on TV. IMO 8-ball would HAVE to be the game to promote. The pros don't care what game it is if they can make a living playing it. The IPT was 8-ball and I didn't here them bit**** about that...they all came running to it.

Over the next few weeks I'm going to try to get one of the local high schools, colleges, or even a hobbists with TV equiptment and whatever other stuff is needed for produce one of the pro or semi-pro tour stops in Florida to put on local access cable channels. I believe if I can get any of the above to do one or two of them that other states would follow. It's a small step but if TV saw that pool could be at least as good as poker who knows how will turn out. Johnnyt
 
OK......I'm going to have to say something.......How can we promote the game when everyone talks about 9-ball,10 ball,14.1,straight pool,etc.Sure there is 50 million people that play pool,but of that 50 million,45 million play 8 BALL.So please everyone,if pool is going to be a mega money making sport it HAS TO BE presented with the MASSES in mind.
How can you possibly get huge sponsors or attraction from the every day social pool player when all you see are games you have never played or heard of ?
I know what all the die hard pool players are going to think of this, BUT its time to wake up,pool will never be what pool should be until the pro's,the industry,the overall format switches over to 8 BALL.And Until that,people won't give a rats ass.
Click to expand...

trouble is eight ball is boring as hell to watch. it's similar to straight pool in that played well (good patterns), it looks easy and every shot's a hanger.
 
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