Pro Pool Is Exactly As It Should Be

Smutzc

Member
I read this this morning about the concept of socialism...
View attachment 617583
Not saying it's applicable to the OP's thoughts, but it made me laugh regardless
Thank you for posting this, I took a screen shot of this and sent to many friends/family. I only hope that there are more of these teacher educating our youth on the benefits of hard work and how to be successful and contributing members of society. This teacher should be teacher of the year ! Thanks again !
 

tomatoshooter

Active member
An interesting part of this story is that it is a story rather than reality. That teacher doesn't exist and that never happened to a class. It's a parable preaching against socialism. (Whatever that is.)
It's a bit ironic that the most American of sports, NFL football, has both revenue sharing and a draft that favors teams that perform poorly. The organization realized that if some form of regulation was in place, the overall competition of the league would be maintained at a high level and the viewers would show up. Otherwise, a few teams would become dominant, making more money, hiring all the top talent, and after a few good years for those several teams the viewership would decline.

I taught a class and said the top 10% would get As and the rest would fail. Some worked really hard and got the A. Some worked just as hard and failed. Most of the class decided not to try. (that was another parable)
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
An interesting part of this story is that it is a story rather than reality. That teacher doesn't exist and that never happened to a class. It's a parable preaching against socialism. (Whatever that is.)
Whatever that is? I think the article real or concocted did a fairly good job of explaining it.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
An interesting part of this story is that it is a story rather than reality. That teacher doesn't exist and that never happened to a class. It's a parable preaching against socialism. (Whatever that is.)
When "journalists" just copy the facebook feed from their grandparents. 🤣
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Thank you for posting this, I took a screen shot of this and sent to many friends/family. I only hope that there are more of these teacher educating our youth on the benefits of hard work and how to be successful and contributing members of society. This teacher should be teacher of the year ! Thanks again !
Respectfully, you should honestly question all news sources, even the ones you agree with. The "journalist" in the article states at the top of the column that it is from their news feed on a social media site. It's also in the opinion column. They literally took a made up story with no proof of it ever happening (call it a parable if you wish) and printed it.

This is shoddy and dangerous journalism, you know, "fake news." I'm not saying the gist of it is wrong, but it's a made up bedtime story for kids. Not anything a person with any kind of integrity would pass on as anything other than the bedtime story it is.

If you can't debate with factual information your belief is either wrong or you (as in the reporter) are too ignorant to actually make a convincing argument that it's correct. Repeating non-factual parables to an adult audience and expecting them to bite on it shows at minimum mild contempt for the readers.
 

Smutzc

Member
Respectfully, you should honestly question all news sources, even the ones you agree with. The "journalist" in the article states at the top of the column that it is from their news feed on a social media site. It's also in the opinion column. They literally took a made up story with no proof of it ever happening (call it a parable if you wish) and printed it.

This is shoddy and dangerous journalism, you know, "fake news." I'm not saying the gist of it is wrong, but it's a made up bedtime story for kids. Not anything a person with any kind of integrity would pass on as anything other than the bedtime story it is.

If you can't debate with factual information your belief is either wrong or you (as in the reporter) are too ignorant to actually make a convincing argument that it's correct. Repeating non-factual parables to an adult audience and expecting them to bite on it shows at minimum mild contempt for the readers.
I hope your not this upset over a post on a pool forum. Not the place I go to for news sources, and I hope you don’t either. For what it is, it’s a good story and or life lesson. Socialism is the death of this country, and it may need stories like this for some people to understand it.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
To anyone that read the 'article' I pasted into this thread...

Don't get your knickers in a knot over the validity/credibility of the print as it relates to the real world. That's not the point, and not why I posted it. IMO it's simply a comedical take on the naivety of youth and how quickly they fall in line with they argue against when exposed to the circumstances they champion.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I hope your not this upset over a post on a pool forum. Not the place I go to for news sources, and I hope you don’t either. For what it is, it’s a good story and or life lesson. Socialism is the death of this country, and it may need stories like this for some people to understand it.
I'm not upset in the slightest, should I be? I simply responded to someone who was very enthusiastic to spread misinformation without giving it some critical thought. I'm sure you're a good person, you wouldn't spread lies purposely.

I agree, 100% "socialism" is the death of a country. That said, many "socialist" things exist here and our lives are better for them. Police force, fire fighters, medicare for older folks, highway systems, etc. Socialism is a good "boogieman," make sure when you hear this buzzword you use your critical thinking skills so as to not be easily manipulated.

Hope I've not upset you, that wasn't my intention. Have a happy Thanksgiving. It's a great day to remember the good stuff we have!
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
I'm not upset in the slightest, should I be? I simply responded to someone who was very enthusiastic to spread misinformation without giving it some critical thought. I'm sure you're a good person, you wouldn't spread lies purposely.

I agree, 100% "socialism" is the death of a country. That said, many "socialist" things exist here and our lives are better for them. Police force, fire fighters, medicare for older folks, highway systems, etc. Socialism is a good "boogieman," make sure when you hear this buzzword you use your critical thinking skills so as to not be easily manipulated.

Hope I've not upset you, that wasn't my intention. Have a happy Thanksgiving. It's a great day to remember the good stuff we have!
There was no misinformation in that story it just wasn't an account of a real incident.
 

Smutzc

Member
I'm not upset in the slightest, should I be? I simply responded to someone who was very enthusiastic to spread misinformation without giving it some critical thought. I'm sure you're a good person, you wouldn't spread lies purposely.

I agree, 100% "socialism" is the death of a country. That said, many "socialist" things exist here and our lives are better for them. Police force, fire fighters, medicare for older folks, highway systems, etc. Socialism is a good "boogieman," make sure when you hear this buzzword you use your critical thinking skills so as to not be easily manipulated.

Hope I've not upset you, that wasn't my intention. Have a happy Thanksgiving. It's a great day to remember the good stuff we have!
Thanks for the response. My initial thought was my comment was being used to prove a political point. I don’t like politics because it brings out the worst in people. I try* to stray away from any of these topics. Hope you and your family have a good thanksgiving as well!
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Humans who do something remarkably well. And they are in balance with society as things should be.

No the problem isn't that pro pool doesn't pay. It's the obscene sums of money and worship we throw at other humans doing physical skills better than everyone else.

Big noisy ignorant fools who can shoot a basketball.

Catch a football.

Hit a curve ball.

People who can entertain us in a whole variety of ways are simply overpaid and over values.

All the trades have their superstars too. But they work for a living wage.

Not saying socialism has the answers but the situation with athlete celebrity is obscene in modern capitalism.

And it would stop if you would stop but you won't.
Pro pool pays very little but pool players don't produce much revenue for those who produce it. Pro basketball pays a lot because pro basketball produces a lot of revenue for those who produce it. Both are as they should be. Athletes are entertainers. Are we to bemoan that the top actors and actresses make millions for doing a single picture or are we to recognize that they have earned those millions by creating huge amounts of revenue for their producers.

The statement "all the trades have their superstars, but they work for a living wage" is patently false. The best dressmakers, like Vera Wang, make a fortune, which is why Vera Wang's net worth is 650 million dollars. Most of those who craft the best watches, shoes, and clothing, are wealthy beyond the boundaries of our wildest imagination. Hell, many of the people who make the best cakes and cookies and other foods made money beyond their wildest dreams.

Actually, we are just as quick to bestow endless riches on many of those who, through their unique excellence in their chosen trade or profession, have earned it, not just athletes.

As many have argued with clarity, socialism, which does have a few positives, is a death sentence for the maximization of ambition in an economy.
 
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tomatoshooter

Active member
Pro pool pays nothing but pool players don't produce revenue for those who produce it. Pro basketball pays a lot because pro basketball produces a lot of revenue for those who produce. Both are as they should be.
I just wish someone could figure out how to promote and monetize pool. It's a shame that all but the top 6 pros aren't making enough in their tournament winnings to live comfortably. Another factor might be low sales of merchandise. With shoes, jerseys, team branded hats, etc. there's a lot more revenue streams for basketball.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I just wish someone could figure out how to promote and monetize pool. It's a shame that all but the top 6 pros aren't making enough in their tournament winnings to live comfortably. Another factor might be low sales of merchandise. With shoes, jerseys, team branded hats, etc. there's a lot more revenue streams for basketball.
For pool as entertainment, we had Accu-Stats for a long time and now we also have Matchroom. The industry leaders seem to be very involved in sponsorship and promotion. That's in contrast to a few years ago when Brunswick stopped nearly all sponsorship. I think the trends are promising.

As for, "Do those yo-yos deserve so much money?" we have the interwebz phenomenon of YouTubers (and Tik-Tokers?) making a lot more per year than seems possible. The key is to capture eyeballs. I think that if someone can get to one million subscribers on YouTube, and they can monetize their content with knick-knacks or related items, their gross annual income is about $1,000,000. The LockPickingLawyer on YouTube has 3 million subscribers. One of his videos has had 28 million views. All he does is pick locks with an entertaining style. Well, sometimes he resorts to thermite. 😱💣
 

tomatoshooter

Active member
For pool as entertainment, we had Accu-Stats for a long time and now we also have Matchroom. The industry leaders seem to be very involved in sponsorship and promotion. That's in contrast to a few years ago when Brunswick stopped nearly all sponsorship. I think the trends are promising.

As for, "Do those yo-yos deserve so much money?" we have the interwebz phenomenon of YouTubers (and Tik-Tokers?) making a lot more per year than seems possible. The key is to capture eyeballs. I think that if someone can get to one million subscribers on YouTube, and they can monetize their content with knick-knacks or related items, their gross annual income is about $1,000,000. The LockPickingLawyer on YouTube has 3 million subscribers. One of his videos has had 28 million views. All he does is pick locks with an entertaining style. Well, sometimes he resorts to thermite. 😱💣
You are right about Accu-Stats and Matchroom. I am thankful for that, and that is what today is for. It would be nice if Sportscenter had a pool clip occasionally, unless they do and I'm unaware. We need another insane Chris Melling runout to go viral.
 
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JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This Billiards Digest Publisher article "From the Publisher" by Mike Panozzo entitled "Twist and Pout" is very enlightening, heartfelt, and oh-so-very-true.

Here's a snippet:
A number of events struggled to fill fields, despite no event guaranteeing less than $25,000 added to the prize fund. That every one of those eight events didn’t pack full fields (with waiting lists) is beyond puzzling. We hear year after year about how few legitimate pro tournaments there are, and here we had a summer with the best string of events since the heydays of the Pro Billiards Tour.

Instead, not even the mighty U.S. Open filled its 256-player board, an event that filled beyond capacity months out in 2019.

What was particularly disheartening, though, was the lukewarm response the Predator Pro Billiard Series received — especially from the U.S. player base.

Nothing but kudos and support should have been afforded the U.S.-based company that dropped $200,000 of added money into five domestic tournaments in a 10-week span.

What was the response? Players — primarily American — moaned about the format and chose instead to play in smaller events or not play at all.


Read more here: Twist and Pout
 

Chicagoplayer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
All this always gets back down to the root question and that is ‘why are people in other sports paid so much and top pool players paid so little. The exception of course is snooker where the player in England are paid well, but generally why is it that when pool does get on tv the average person tends to skip right past the channel saying to their wife of husband, “oh those pros never miss” before skipping over to watch something else. One answer might be that the general public is not educated of the subtleties of pool and no youth programs teaching it to the young, let alone children’s tournaments like soccer, baseball, you name it. Another thing is people need sports heroes to root for, and this leads back to the chicken and the egg thing. If our pool player can’t get media exposure, people can’t get to know them and rivalries can’t be created. All this has been said before so I’m afraid nothing is going to change this dynamic anytime soon, unless that is if Shane or Earl can learn to hit a 98 mph fast ball!
No investor has figured out how to monetize pool in America, like they’ve done with Baseball, Football, etc.
Those sports were turned into businesses.

England has betting parlors on every street.
America does not.

Matchroom Sport created events in popular games, then filmed them and created a library of content that television & cable stations around the globe purchase.

This is how Matchroom thrives, off of its library of content.
They produce events in: Boxing, Golf, Snooker, Poker, Pool, Table Tennis, Darts, Fishing, Bowls(Lawn Game)
$$$

Matchroom had additional help in the form of BBC $ that they spent on creating content.
They were at the right place at the right time.

Pool is amazing. Cue sports are amazing.
It’s in our hands.

Wait til Phil Capelle’s new book,
“Pool is the Answer” is finished.
I’m trusting that that book will smack pro sports in its head.
 
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L.S. Dennis

Active member
You are correct, the chicken and egg thing all over again. If there were enough eyeballs on tv screens industry would follow in short order, that’s the way business works as you well know. But getting those eyeballs on screens requires a substantial industry commitment. My advice to you and anyone else is don’t hold your breath…
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
This Billiards Digest Publisher article "From the Publisher" by Mike Panozzo entitled "Twist and Pout" is very enlightening, heartfelt, and oh-so-very-true.

Here's a snippet:
A number of events struggled to fill fields, despite no event guaranteeing less than $25,000 added to the prize fund. That every one of those eight events didn’t pack full fields (with waiting lists) is beyond puzzling. We hear year after year about how few legitimate pro tournaments there are, and here we had a summer with the best string of events since the heydays of the Pro Billiards Tour.

Instead, not even the mighty U.S. Open filled its 256-player board, an event that filled beyond capacity months out in 2019.

What was particularly disheartening, though, was the lukewarm response the Predator Pro Billiard Series received — especially from the U.S. player base.

Nothing but kudos and support should have been afforded the U.S.-based company that dropped $200,000 of added money into five domestic tournaments in a 10-week span.

What was the response? Players — primarily American — moaned about the format and chose instead to play in smaller events or not play at all.


Read more here: Twist and Pout
Maybe they should ask the players what they want then? Pool is considered to be so malleable that any promoter does whatever they want with little consideration of what the players want. Players are essentially told to suck it up and play and criticized if they choose not to play and explain why.

One of the pros made a good point in a discussion last year on this topic. He said that professional players don't have day jobs to go back to. Pool is not their escape from a tough work week it IS their work week. So to go to an event where highly skilled amateurs are given large handicaps and the professional has to go to say 15 and the amateur to 5 is tough action.

Amateurs get their paycheck from their jobs and the money they spend on tournaments is fun money. Pros are spending money trying to make a profit and with the current structure only a few can profit at each event.

I have long said that a dollar a week from all amateur league dues would fund a legitimate pro tour in perpetuity. And that pro tour properly produced would in turn grow the amateur base.

We have the needed numbers but we lack the cohesiveness. Pool in America is a myriad of fiefdoms whereby each baron creates their own environment and expect the peasants to comply.

As the saying goes familiarity breeds contempt. It's great for amateurs to rub shoulders with pros but also means that amateurs don't really respect them enough to pay for a robust professional tour that allows for a truly professional class that is filled with players who earned their spots on such a tour.
 
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