Pro Pool Is Exactly As It Should Be

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Especially when American pool had players with personality like Willie Mosconi and Minnesota Fats. Their feud made for good TV viewing for mainstream Americans. Steve Mitzerak and his Miller Lite commercials also contributed to the popularity of pool. You don't see one of our American pool players on TV commercials today, with the exception of Steve Markle. I wonder how much he got paid for this. :giggle:

Check him out: Professional trick shot artist Steve Markle Lincoln Car Commercial
We need people like Keith to attract viewers.

People who have unique personalities, show emotion, and create an experience other than watching a ball slow roll into the pocket.

Pool needs celebrities.

They need to create a reality show where a pro matches up with a well-known celebrity and they play other teams of the same makeup.

Nobody is going to watch people with mullets and flip flops sitting on benches holding a cue waiting for another monk to shoot a 30-second shot that he takes 10 minutes looking over first like a surveyor for Mount Rushmore.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I don't know what is meant by "wrong demographics". My customers come from all demographics and the people I know in the pool room run the entire spectrum from janitors to CEOs.
As I've noted, the product I'm talking about is the pro pool production. Here's what it means when I say the pro pool product suffers from attracting the wrong demographics.

As Jay Helfert has often noted on this forum, ESPN rating numbers for pool were always halfway decent, not far below lesser college football matchups found on the ESPN network. As somebody who has had direct access to ESPN personnel in the past, I can offer first hand that the biggest difference in the ratings was that pool was drawing a demographic that was, on average, older and lower income than college football and most other sports on ESPN. The demographics attracted by pro pool productions, consequently, did not match up with the consumers that marketing firms most wanted to reach. This is why almost nobody outside the pool industry chose to purchase ads during pool telecasts. Pool producers' "wrong demographics" shut them out from selling ad space to those who pay the most for it.

Those same "wrong demographics" continue to make it very challenging for producers of professional pool to make ends meet.
 
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Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Lol, "..society convinced people they should watch cornhole..". People watch it because they can relate to it. They're fat schlubs watching other fat schlubs doing stuff they themselves could easily do, and getting applauded. I'm sorry but seeing these guys in sports clothes looking all serious, cracks me up. God knows I have no call fat shaming anyone, but come on, man, you don't need sports clothes for this.

In a way, it shows that people, in theory, can watch absolutely ANYTHING as long as it is marketed right. I do think cornhole, and darts have one thing right. They're focusing on head to head matches. This is obviously what pool is, by default, but still I don't think any promoter or tv production in modern times have properly used this to their advantage.
 

Willowbrook Wolfy

Your wushu is weak!
He said players are being paid exactly what they are "worth" for the market they are in. This is actually true. A professional pool player is in a profession that is disorganized and which is not popular as a spectator sport. Go into any pool room where a football game is on and ask for the tv to be changed to a live broadcast of the world pool championships. the majority of the time the players in the room will NOT want the channel changed.

I experienced this twice, once in Charlotte and once in China.

Simply put, most people playing pool do not care one bit about the professional class of pool players.
Oh. I thought his point was all professional sports players should be paid/treated the same regardless of sport. The whole “socialism” part of his write up.
 
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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
He meant scroungy low life bums. People you don't leave your stuff lying there while you go to the rest room. They owe you money. They owe a lot of people money. But they can still afford to smoke. They live by having checks sent in for fake disabilities from shortened work or military careers. We call them the 700 club as that's their average monthly checks.

You may not be aware of this but these people are not buying your cases.
Well, I don't require that people share their income class and profession before purchasing. I think though that the type of person you describe is seen less and less in modern pool rooms but they clearly still exist.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
As I've noted, the product I'm talking about is the pro pool production. Here's what it means when I say the pro pool product suffers from attracting the wrong demographics.

As Jay Helfert has often noted on this forum, ESPN rating numbers for pool were always halfway decent, not far below lesser college football matchups found on the ESPN network. As somebody who has had direct access to ESPN personnel in the past, I can offer first hand that the biggest difference in the ratings was that pool was drawing a demographic that was, on average, older and lower income than college football and most other sports on ESPN. The demographics attracted by pro pool productions, consequently, did not match up with the consumers that marketing firms most wanted to reach. This is why almost nobody outside the pool industry chose to purchase ads during pool telecasts. Pool producers' "wrong demographics" shut them out from selling ad space to those who pay the most for it.

Those same "wrong demographics" continue to make it very challenging for producers of professional pool to make ends meet.
This rings right to me.

So all we need to do is attract younger, higher income people to an activity that's boring to watch, expensive and hard to do.

Piece o' cake.

pj <- ever the optimist
chgo
 

Willowbrook Wolfy

Your wushu is weak!
Yes-appeal to the younger generation. Like all the new kids at my job. First off my worked bumped wages up $10 an hour. They still weren’t retaining new hires. Now they started allowing phones for new hires and guess what? Yep. Retention is much better. You used to have to earn a phone pass. Ridiculous but true.
It all starts with an app. Which is already out there…..
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This rings right to me.

So all we need to do is attract younger, higher income people to an activity that's boring to watch, expensive and hard to do.

Piece o' cake.

pj <- ever the optimist
chgo

Today, the attractive, younger, higher-income guys are out with their boyfriends at some yuppy bar drinking Flaming Floozies or at some beauty parlor getting their eyebrows man-scaped.

There are 1000 times more ugly, all-age, lower-to-middle income guys that you need to interest in order to revive pool on TV.

Advertisers need to attract the WWE/NBA/NFL/MMA/Jerry Springer-watching, beer-drinking, chip-stuffing, meatloaf-eating crowd with commercials about fishing equipment, beers, car parts, guns, etc. They aren’t interested in Disney retreats, investing commercials, and crap of that sort. They aren’t worried about investing…they like to spend all their money and have a good time.

There is no money in trying to advertise champagne, caviar, and Beethoven CDs to the yuppie crowd...they AIN’T watching no matter what you do. If they can’t click it on their Apple phone and play it, they aren’t having any part of it.

You need Barnum and Bailey to run successful pool on TV…not Lawrence Welk!
 
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Willowbrook Wolfy

Your wushu is weak!
H

ha, I’ll say it again, it’s not the millennials fault, it’s those who allowed the millennials to happen are/is what went wrong.
Today, the attractive, younger, higher-income guys are out with their boyfriends at some yuppy bar drinking Flaming Floozies or at some beauty parlor getting their eyebrows man-scaped.

There are 1000 times more ugly, all-age, lower-to-middle income guys that you need to interest in order to revive pool on TV.

Advertisers need to attract the Jerry Springer beer-drinking, chip-stuffing, meatloaf-eating crowd with commercials about fishing equipment, beers, car parts, guns, etc. They aren’t interested in Disney retreats, investing commercials, and crap of that sort. They aren’t worried about investing…they like to spend all their money and have a good time.

There is no money in advertising champagne, caviar, and Beethoven CDs to the yuppie crowd...they AIN’T watching no matter what you do.

You need Barnum and Bailey to run successful pool on TV…not Lawrence Welk!
Well another issue here too. I was at the hall last night playing with my girlfriend. There was a couple next to us. The girl was really trying to get better and work on a few things during their games. So ends up The guy is trying to show his girlfriend how to make a kick shot with the cb behind the nine, 8ball hanging in the corner. Not only did his girlfriend miss 14 times but he missed 10 himself. So being a nice guy I ended up with the same shot while they were doing this. I waited with it lined up for like a minute finally they glanced over and I took the shot. Given after all this time I didn’t make the shot but I sure as hell got a foot closer than any of their shots were. They didn’t notice. That’s a little story of the younger generation……And when I asked them if they wanted to play us for fun doubles they didn’t want to. Makes no sense.
 

Dimeball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well another issue here too. I was at the hall last night playing with my girlfriend. There was a couple next to us. The girl was really trying to get better and work on a few things during their games. So ends up The guy is trying to show his girlfriend how to make a kick shot with the cb behind the nine, 8ball hanging in the corner. Not only did his girlfriend miss 14 times but he missed 10 himself. So being a nice guy I ended up with the same shot while they were doing this. I waited with it lined up for like a minute finally they glanced over and I took the shot. Given after all this time I didn’t make the shot but I sure as hell got a foot closer than any of their shots were. They didn’t notice. That’s a little story of the younger generation……And when I asked them if they wanted to play us for fun doubles they didn’t want to. Makes no sense.
Had a conversation with a fella last week… asked him if was going to play in the Friday night tourney to which he said, oh no, I’m not wasting my $10 playing with you guys, y’all shoot too good... my response was, its hard to get better only playing C & D players… the look of bewilderment on his face was troubling to say the least…
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
All this always gets back down to the root question and that is ‘why are people in other sports paid so much and top pool players paid so little. The exception of course is snooker where the player in England are paid well, but generally why is it that when pool does get on tv the average person tends to skip right past the channel saying to their wife of husband, “oh those pros never miss” before skipping over to watch something else. One answer might be that the general public is not educated of the subtleties of pool and no youth programs teaching it to the young, let alone children’s tournaments like soccer, baseball, you name it. Another thing is people need sports heroes to root for, and this leads back to the chicken and the egg thing. If our pool player can’t get media exposure, people can’t get to know them and rivalries can’t be created. All this has been said before so I’m afraid nothing is going to change this dynamic anytime soon, unless that is if Shane or Earl can learn to hit a 98 mph fast ball!
The pro players had their chance for fame and stardom decades ago when Richie Florence was putting all his tournaments on ESPN with repeated airings. Until Bill Cayton came on the scene and convinced them not to sign the standard player television releases. That bonehead move set pro pool back until this day!

Why the BCA never made an attempt to have Pool become a high school sport I will never know. They wasted years and dollars trying to get it into the Olympics. The time and money could have been better spent getting it into high schools!
 
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middleofnowhere

Registered
Players agree to pay dues for certain perks like free table time.

What's in it for the league player if a portion of their dues went to some pro tour that 99% of them would never compete in, whether to their own unwillingness or skill?
A stable sport with a clear path from amateur to professional for anyone who wants take that path.

It doesn't need to be voluntary. No league breaks down what part of the dues are spent on marketing.

The pro players had their chance for fame and stardom decades ago when Richie Florence was putting all his tournaments on ESPN with repeated airings. Until Bill Cayton came on the scene and convinced them not to sign the standard player television releases. That bonehead move set pro pool back until this day!

Why the BCA never made an attempt to have Pool become a high school sport I will never know. They wasted years and dollars trying to get it into the Olympics and the time and money could have been better spent getting it into high schools!
I never thought pool in the Olympics ever meant anything. It would just be another Olympic sport you never see or hear about. A little exposure, maybe, for a few days every 4 years, that has always been a red herring.
 

tableroll

Rolling Thunder
Silver Member
Although I very much dislike celebrity worship, if you paid every top pro athlete 50-70k a year, the remaining money doesn’t go away. Instead now you probably just make already extremely well compensated executives even richer. The athletes are the ones that generate a lot of the value and they are compensated for it. And you continue to pay high amounts to encourage the next Lebron James to pick up a basketball and stick with it. It pool payed like Tennis, I bet we’d see the next Efren Reyes in the next generation.
Why is it the taxpayers of a pro basketball team have to pony up for the stadium, pay outrageous ticket prices, and then also have to pay to park in their own lot that they paid for? Not to mention 8 dollars for a cup of beer.
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
Why is it the taxpayers of a pro basketball team have to pony up for the stadium, pay outrageous ticket prices, and then also have to pay to park in their own lot that they paid for? Not to mention 8 dollars for a cup of beer.
That's always the case. They built a playhouse auditorium in my town using taxpayer money making it sound how fantastic it would be going to bring Broadway plays.

Yeah they brought Broadway plays except you look at Ticketmaster and it's like $150.00 a ticket and it goes up from there. We paid for it and nobody can afford to go to it.
 

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
That's always the case. They built a playhouse auditorium in my town using taxpayer money making it sound how fantastic it would be going to bring Broadway plays.

Yeah they brought Broadway plays except you look at Ticketmaster and it's like $150.00 a ticket and it goes up from there. We paid for it and nobody can afford to go to it.
At least with the basketball arena they also have concerts I can't afford and I guess having a local team is kinda cool. I do enjoy the occasional game on TV.

I think the playhouse thing is related to the desirable demographics.
 

9andout

Gunnin' for a 2 pack!!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Anyone blaming "over paid" players is laughable.
An old target. So who gets the biggest share of the money then? The owner?
Pay the players. If you don't like it don't watch.
I really only watch football and I don't cry about them or the other sports.
Pool USED to have money in it.
Players f'd it all up.
 
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