pro taper question

[obe1]

I would like to get a new shaft pro tapered. Problem is when i called a cue shop today he said he could not help unless i gave him exact measurement and dimensions for the desired shaft taper.

How do i do this?I have read in alot of threads here on how much of a improvment it has on one.

Thank You for your help.

 

[JoeyInCali]

What do you mean by pro taper?

 

[triley41395]

I think the "PRO TAPER" was concidered no taper back like 14 or 16 inches. basiclly if your tip is 13 mm then your shaft stays 13 mm back to 14 or 16 inches. I'm not sure on the distance back but I know its close to that

 

[JoeyInCali]

I think the "PRO TAPER" was concidered no taper back like 14 or 16 inches. basiclly if your tip is 13 mm then your shaft stays 13 mm back to 14 or 16 inches. I'm not sure on the distance back but I know its close to that

There's the problem. So pro-taper is NO taper the first 14 to 16 inches?
My definition would be .002" per inch of taper for 12 to 16 inches from the tip.

If he just called the maker and say I want a 16-inches of NO taper shaft, it'd be easier.

 

[triley41395]

I have no experience cutting tapers, but that is how it was explained to me when I had one of my shafts done with a pro taper. I remember another thread on here where the .002 per inch was mentioned it may have been you that mentioned it. The posts were within the last 6 months so you may be able to find it. I think different makers had a little different take on the pro taper but they were all similar.

 

[dave sutton]

the term protaper is about a wode open as it can be. everyones has a different meaning for it. a shaft can be 13mm+ and have a long taper and be comfortible for play. tell him its too fat in the middle and just leave the tip dia the same and take some out of the middle. i just use 220 320 400 600 ect until i get it where the customer likes it. maybe its best to find a guy you can work with in person so you can feel the changes there and get it where u like it

 

[triley41395]

I found this old thread that may or may not help.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=156887&highlight=taper

 

[JoeyInCali]

the term protaper is about a wode open as it can be. everyones has a different meaning for it. a shaft can be 13mm+ and have a long taper and be comfortible for play. tell him its too fat in the middle and just leave the tip dia the same and take some out of the middle. i just use 220 320 400 600 ect until i get it where the customer likes it. maybe its best to find a guy you can work with in person so you can feel the changes there and get it where u like it

Or buy a caliper and measure your favorite shaft and get it replicated.

 

[Schlosser Cases]

Last post right on.

 

[Brown Bear]

Can o' worms

You asked a really loaded question because there isn't 1 or even 100 right answers. All custom cue makers use a "pro taper", but there are an infinite number of variations that can be considered a "pro taper". Joey's post is probably the best way to get a quick answer. Dave's is probably the best to find what's best for you. Search pro taper and you'll get a lot more insight.

 

[Sheldon]

Or buy a caliper and measure your favorite shaft and get it replicated.

Excellent plan.
Better yet, just send the shaft with the taper you like to the cuemaker, along with the one you want cut. :grin-square:

 

[scdiveteam]

I would like to get a new shaft pro tapered. Problem is when i called a cue shop today he said he could not help unless i gave him exact measurement and dimensions for the desired shaft taper.

How do i do this?I have read in alot of threads here on how much of a improvment it has on one.

Thank You for your help.

Hi,

Joey is right by asking for the numbers for tapering!

My question is, why do you want this so called pro taper? If you played with a friends shaft that you liked, you can bring in that shaft as a template for the cue maker to copy. That new shaft will have the same geometry but it may play a lot different because the density of your shaft wood or if it was soaked in a liquid stabilizer, ect.

Many people come to my cue repair business and ask for their shaft to be made smaller or re tapered thinking it will improve their game somehow. The more you take off the shaft the more deflection you will acquire. This will change the hit point on the object ball. I am not an expert pool player but this was explained to me by Nick Varner.

I have always been under the understanding that a Pro Taper has a slight increase ( a few thousands ) per linear inch for the first 8 to 10 inches, then climbs at a faster rate. A super pro taper reaches the faster climb much father back depending on the manufacture or cue maker.

It is very true that these terms pro and super pro taper are ambiguous and really don't mean much other that a general description.

Rick G

 

[Sheldon]

The more you take off the shaft the more deflection you will acquire.

Not true, unless you define deflection very differently than most people do.

 

[patrickcues]

I would like to get a new shaft pro tapered. Problem is when i called a cue shop today he said he could not help unless i gave him exact measurement and dimensions for the desired shaft taper.

How do i do this?I have read in alot of threads here on how much of a improvment it has on one.

Thank You for your help.

This is what I was told that a pro taper is. Say the feulle is 12.75m/m at 14 inches it is 13.75m/m. In other words what ever the ferulle size is at 14 inches it is 1m/m bigger! That is what I call a "Pro Taper"! This is just what I have been told and also what I go by!
May be right and may be wrong this is just what I use! You will hear all kinds of opinions on this.

 

[scdiveteam]

Not true, unless you define deflection very differently than most people do.

Hi,

Why don't you define it for me. You mean to tell me that if a shaft A is thinner than shaft B that shaft A won't deflect more than Shaft B when you strike a cue ball. Webster's defines deflection As such:

( a deflecting or being deflected; a turning aside, bending, or deviation )

If you slow roll the cue ball and hit center ball I believe most shafts will produce the same results. It is very hard to make a perfect center ball hit every time and due to shape positioning most players use English or unintentional English while playing pool games. When you impart a stroke and don't hit center ball, different shaft tapers will produce different results due to a squirt factor. If this were "Not True", then there would be no need to discuss differences in shaft tapers!

Thanks,

Rick G

 

[poolplayer2093]

just measure a shaft you like with some calipers. measure it at every half inch and send the measurements to the cue maker of your choice

 

[Sheldon]

Why don't you define it for me.

http://tinyurl.com/y89ovbz
Definition: When the cue tip strikes a cue ball with a sideways offset, the ball
does not depart from the collision along a direction that is exactly parallel to the cue stick
axis. This off-angle cue ball deviation is called squirt. The term “squirt” first appeared in
Robert Byrne’s Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards (Harvest, San Diego, 1990).
Squirt is sometimes called also “cue ball deflection” or “cue ball push.” There have been
many suggestions about why this occurs, what stroke and grip techniques affect squirt,
and how various equipment characteristics affect squirt. Many of these explanations are
incomplete, or have minor errors, or, in some cases, they are outright wrong in their basic
premises.


http://www.meuccicues.com/deflection.htm
It has come to my attention that the term "deflection," which we introduced 20 years or so ago through our Meucci literature and through the professional ranks, has now taken on a different and very incorrect meaning. Deflection had always been clearly understood to mean cue ball deflection.

Whether through misinformation or as a result of not educating the new generation of pool players, deflection has now become falsely understood to mean the deflection of the cue shaft away from the cue ball as it strikes it or even the flexibility of the cue shaft itself. So, it is time to once again clear the air and re-educate the industry about cue ball deflection.

As a result of years of research and development, studying the hit of a pool cue, by using high-speed photography, the following information on cue ball deflection emerged as the industry standard.

Cue ball deflection occurs when the cue ball is struck off-center as when English or side spin is applied to the shot. This causes the ball to take a path off-angle, veering in the opposite direction from the side on which it was struck. In other words, strike the cue ball left of center and it will deflect off course to the right of the direction established by the alignment of the shaft.

Cue ball deflection will vary from very little (1/8 of an inch in the span of 8 feet) to a whopping 1 1/2 inches in the same span. These variations are a result of three factors;

1. How far off center the cue ball is struck (left or right); the more off center,
the more deflection.
2. The hardness of the surface striking the ball (tip & ferrule) creating varying levels of shock.
3. How much force is used when the ball is struck. The more force applied by speed of stroke, the greater the deflection.

 

[scdiveteam]

http://tinyurl.com/y89ovbz
Definition: When the cue tip strikes a cue ball with a sideways offset, the ball
does not depart from the collision along a direction that is exactly parallel to the cue stick
axis. This off-angle cue ball deviation is called squirt. The term “squirt” first appeared in
Robert Byrne’s Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards (Harvest, San Diego, 1990).
Squirt is sometimes called also “cue ball deflection” or “cue ball push.” There have been
many suggestions about why this occurs, what stroke and grip techniques affect squirt,
and how various equipment characteristics affect squirt. Many of these explanations are
incomplete, or have minor errors, or, in some cases, they are outright wrong in their basic
premises.


http://www.meuccicues.com/deflection.htm
It has come to my attention that the term "deflection," which we introduced 20 years or so ago through our Meucci literature and through the professional ranks, has now taken on a different and very incorrect meaning. Deflection had always been clearly understood to mean cue ball deflection.

Whether through misinformation or as a result of not educating the new generation of pool players, deflection has now become falsely understood to mean the deflection of the cue shaft away from the cue ball as it strikes it or even the flexibility of the cue shaft itself. So, it is time to once again clear the air and re-educate the industry about cue ball deflection.

As a result of years of research and development, studying the hit of a pool cue, by using high-speed photography, the following information on cue ball deflection emerged as the industry standard.

Cue ball deflection occurs when the cue ball is struck off-center as when English or side spin is applied to the shot. This causes the ball to take a path off-angle, veering in the opposite direction from the side on which it was struck. In other words, strike the cue ball left of center and it will deflect off course to the right of the direction established by the alignment of the shaft.

Cue ball deflection will vary from very little (1/8 of an inch in the span of 8 feet) to a whopping 1 1/2 inches in the same span. These variations are a result of three factors;

1. How far off center the cue ball is struck (left or right); the more off center,
the more deflection.
2. The hardness of the surface striking the ball (tip & ferrule) creating varying levels of shock.
3. How much force is used when the ball is struck. The more force applied by speed of stroke, the greater the deflection.

Dear Sheldon,

I agree with your descriptions. I have also read Bob's books and sell them at my pool hall. If you would re read my threads you will find that I described deflection in reference to the path of cue ball and it's effect concerning the perceived hit or aim point from a players perspective. The more meat you take off the shaft the more deflection or cue ball squirt you will acquire.

I am a 3 cushion billiards player and this is one of the elementary things you must understand to progress in that discipline because we sometimes use up to 3 tips of english off of center ball. The shaft taper is a variable of the cue ball deflection with table foundation, cue tip, ferrule, shaft wood density, stroke, cloth friction coefficiency, temperature and humidity also playing their part.

This is the reason that billiards shafts are built with a stiff conical taper with more spine than a pool cue. If you gave a billiards champion a skinny pool shaft with a super pro taper, they would never make a small ball natural without first practicing with it for accommodation. The power of the stroke would be more critical in making a shot.

The only time I refer to deflection concerning shafts is when I have them between centers on a lathe and the tool or router is exerting a 90 degree force causing the wood to defect off a straight line. This is one of the reasons why cue makers make very light cuts or passes as they get closer to the final dimension.

I agree with you about the fact that many players are confused about the physics of pool and the term deflection and how it applies therein.

Thanks,

Rick Geschrey

 

[JoeyInCali]

The more meat you take off the shaft the more deflection or cue ball squirt you will acquire.

Studies really have not proven that.
What it really boils down to is , it's either the tip deflects off the cueball or the cueball deflects off the tip.
The MORE that tip deflects off the cueball ( and probably the speed ) the less the cueball deflects ( squirts ) off the tip.
A 12MM tipped shaft will not necessarily mean it will have more cueball squirt than a 13 MM tipped shaft. In fact, all things being equal, the 12MM tipped shaft will have less cueball deflection.
Imho, and I could be wrong.

 

[Sheldon]

Come to think of it, some of the lowest deflecting shafts I've ever made were VERY stiff. Almost a conical taper to them. There may be something to that, but I believe that the MAJOR factor is still endmass.