problem getting a Viattorre cue - and suggestions?

BillPorter

BillPorter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A friend of mine ordered a Viattorre cue about 17 months ago. It was recently shipped to him by Jackson Tan of Viattorre cues. Just today he heard that, " PARKS AND WILDLIFE, A DIVISION OF US CUSTOMS HAS SEIZED THE CUE BECALUSE THEY BELIEVE IT CONTAINS ELEPHANT IVORY. FED EX SAYS THAT THEY WILL CONTACT ME."

WTF? Any suggestions for him? Any help will be appreciated.
 
I oredered a Cue about 16 Months ago but is not finished yet.I will look forward what happend with your Cue by the Custom.Hope everything is cleared for you.
Please let me know the End.
Ralf
 
I bought a cue from Viattorre with a little ivory in it and had no problems with getting it.Maybe he can get in touch with parks and tell them it is not ivory but ivor-x or somthing on that order.
 
Well, that would only work if it's not Ivory. They use a Spectrometer-type scan to determine the real stuff from everything else.

Ivory can not be imported. Period. This has nothing to do with Tan or Viattorre. It's International law (CITES) There have been many, many threads here about this very subject.

And that's "Fish & Wildlife", not Parks.

Importing a cue with ANY Ivory - from ANYWHERE - is a risk. Some get through, some do not. Yours didn't.

If it was being Exported (from the US to almost anywhere), it's possible that a letter from the Cuemaker certifying that the ivory was pre-ban would work.
Even then, it would have to be a long-term CM with a rich history, who would/could have had ivory since before the ban. Or other proof of legal ownership.
But a letter from some guy in the PI ain't gonna mean squat to Customs.

Anyhoo, if your cue does in fact contain ivory, you can probably kiss it goodbye.

That sucks. Sorry.

-von


bobroberts said:
I bought a cue from Viattorre with a little ivory in it and had no problems with getting it.Maybe he can get in touch with parks and tell them it is not ivory but ivor-x or somthing on that order.
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Nice reply

VonRhett said:
Well, that would only work if it's not Ivory. They use a Spectrometer-type scan to determine the real stuff from everything else.

Ivory can not be imported. Period. This has nothing to do with Tan or Viattorre. It's International law (CITES) There have been many, many threads here about this very subject.

And that's "Fish & Wildlife", not Parks.

Importing a cue with ANY Ivory - from ANYWHERE - is a risk. Some get through, some do not. Yours didn't.

If it was being Exported (from the US to almost anywhere), it's possible that a letter from the Cuemaker certifying that the ivory was pre-ban would work.
Even then, it would have to be a long-term CM with a rich history, who would/could have had ivory since before the ban. Or other proof of legal ownership.
But a letter from some guy in the PI ain't gonna mean squat to Customs.

Anyhoo, if your cue does in fact contain ivory, you can probably kiss it goodbye.

That sucks. Sorry.

-von
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von, I appreciate your comprehensive and authoritative reply. But I'm sure my friend won't like reading it.
 
Based on my own personal experience, chances are, the cue won't get through. However, I once had a cue held up in Alaska that they wouldn't allow into the states, but they were willing to (and did) return to me. After getting it back, I resent it via EMS instead of FedEx and it got through with no problems. It's my understanding that FedEx goes through Alaska, and almost everything gets hung up, and in my case, even cues with no issues get hung up. Sending via any courier other than FedEx goes a different route, and generally seen to encounter less trouble.
In my particular case, cue was a lizard embossed pig skin wrap. They suspected it as being monitor, while I knew it was pig skin. In my case, I was told that it's my responsibility to prove that it wasn't monitor, and the only way to do so at that point was to strip the wrap and let them do their tests. Of course, after everything tests out ok, they are not responsible for replacing the wrap or any damage done during the removal. I'm glad to know that they have a process to test for ivory, but I wonder if it involves doing any damage to the cue because they have no problems tearing something to pieces only to discover that their suspicions were wrong. And, when they've found to be wrong, they won't take any responsibility for the damage they've caused to discover they were wrong.
Good luck,
dave
 
BillPorter said:
A friend of mine ordered a Viattorre cue about 17 months ago. It was recently shipped to him by Jackson Tan of Viattorre cues. Just today he heard that, " PARKS AND WILDLIFE, A DIVISION OF US CUSTOMS HAS SEIZED THE CUE BECALUSE THEY BELIEVE IT CONTAINS ELEPHANT IVORY. FED EX SAYS THAT THEY WILL CONTACT ME."

WTF? Any suggestions for him? Any help will be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Maybe your friend will get lucky and Jackson used mammoth ivory. This is what he SHOULD be doing if he's going to export cues to the USA. Tad uses it and he has no problem selling $50,000 ivory cues

Face it, he's been sending cues here for many years. I think it's Viatorre's responsibility to know what he needs to do to get the cue into the country legally.

Chris
 
Might just get a fine...

I don't know about this case, but I had a cue that I bought be "confiscated" by Fish and Wildlife. It showed up 3 weeks later with a fine of about 3 times the value of the cue. I no longer buy cues from overseas with any ivory, etc in them.Joe
 
Update on the Viattorre cue problem

In an email to the cue's buyer, Jackson Tan of Viattorre Cues said the following:

"Are they saying the butt cap is ivory? The yellowish butt cap is just synthetic off-white phenolic.
Regards,

-----------------------------------------
Jackson Tan"

From Tan's comments, I am assuming that the cue does NOT have any ivory in it. Why would Tan make the point about the butt cap not being ivory if he knew there were ivory ferrules or inlays? That wouldn't make sense.

Thanks to all who have taken the time to chime in on this thread. I know the topic has been discussed in several other threads, so thanks for your patience.
 
Bamacues said:
I don't know about this case, but I had a cue that I bought be "confiscated" by Fish and Wildlife. It showed up 3 weeks later with a fine of about 3 times the value of the cue. I no longer buy cues from overseas with any ivory, etc in them.Joe
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that doesn't sound right bro. you didn't ship the cue why should you have to pay the fine
 
poolplayer2093 said:
that doesn't sound right bro. you didn't ship the cue why should you have to pay the fine
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Buyers of contraban is as liable as the people sending it. Like drugs or stolen goods for example, both the seller and the purchaser will get in trouble.
 
No, it is right. The merchandise was coming into this country. As the Importer, you are responsible for ensuring your merchandise is legal and conforms to all US Laws. If it doesn't, there can mounds of paperwork, months of delays and, of course, fines out the wazoo (sp?) They can confiscate your stuff, and still charge you for the exam fees. It can get real ugly. It's why Customs Brokers are in such high demand.

Of course they can't charge the shipper. As a rule, US Agencies can't impose fines on individuals in other countries. What, send a bill to some cuemaker in the PI?

True Story: 2 years ago I had an "Emergency Order" for a customer. Good size order, but not enough to fill a container -more like half. (2/3 or more and it's worth it to ship alone) We would have filled up our own container in another week or so, but he had to have it on the water NOW. So though we knew better, we shipped this Order in a shared container ( A container with merchandise from several importers).

Container Ship gets to Long Beach, Customs doesn't like the manifest and tags the Container for inspection. They x-ray it, scan it, don't like something they see. Decide to perform a full inspection - empty the entire container, search, sniff, etc., etc.

All the importers share the bill for these "services". We got billed for:
*Customs to truck the Container to the Inspection Building;
* Cost to empty the Container (Union rates);
* Enormous fees to scan, sniff, xray, etc.;
*Storage fee (!!) since they couldn't finish in 48 hours;
* Exam Fees (seperate from xray and scanning; open boxes and look);
*Truck it back to the Port;
*Processing fees

Each Importer pays the portion of the total fees equal to their percentage of the container. So since I had half the container, I paid 1/2 of these dam fees!

Of course my merchanise was fine. All we were told is that some newbie had a box with contraband. That's it. Thousands of dollars and a 10-day delay cause some idiot tried to import some...whatever.

And ever seen those clips where a rogue wave hits a container ship and the containers go swimming? Don't even get me started on the insurance nightmare that is! :p

<Deep breaths..."Customs is my friend"....breathe...> :D

-von

poolplayer2093 said:
that doesn't sound right bro. you didn't ship the cue why should you have to pay the fine
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That's why I won't order a cue with Ivory or any other material coming from endangered specie/wood. It's just too much hustle.

The only other way it to mis-declare the material and cost, then ship the real invoice separately. Darn, did I just say that?
 
I know who you are, the FBI si gonna fly a team of people to kick your door down in HK and take u in;)
 
There are other illegal materials, e.g. abalone, that this could have been confiscated for. This is what the US Fish & Wildlife Service told me when I spoke to them about my Viattorre which was seized. They will tell you exactly why they took your cue. In my case, they went ahead and delivered the shafts. You will also be charged $100 by fedex as you are the payer of the shipping. Jackson will refund your cue money.

See my thread:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=27650

Incidentally, I never did sell those shafts if anyone is interested.
 
Technically, abalone shell (MOP) is not an illegal substance.

However, F&W "must" inspect and/or approve ANYTHING imported into this country, if any part of the item(s) was EVER alive.

So if you import wood & wood products (which I do), Customs will clear the shipment/merchandise as long as the wood had been properly treated, Fumigation Certificates, etc.

But if there's any ivory, MOP, tortoise shell, animal/reptile/fish skin/hide, etc., then F&W gets involved.

With the proper paperwork, it all goes smoothly. It's when they do a spot check and find something (like your cue) that it becomes a nightmare.

The good news is that if your cue was held up because of abalone instead of ivory, there's a good chance you'll still get it. Along with outrageous fines, of course.:p

-von

thoffen said:
There are other illegal materials, e.g. abalone, that this could have been confiscated for. This is what the US Fish & Wildlife Service told me when I spoke to them about my Viattorre which was seized.
Click to expand...
 
Let's say I'll be coming from another country, how can you bring a personal cue containing these "banned" materials to the US? What if you don't have any documents for it? Is it easier to bring it as a luggage or have it shipped via door to door, ems, or fedex?:confused:
 
sygfrid said:
Let's say I'll be coming from another country, how can you bring a personal cue containing these "banned" materials to the US? What if you don't have any documents for it? Is it easier to bring it as a luggage or have it shipped via door to door, ems, or fedex?:confused:
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Go thru Mexico.then pay someone to take you across the border with 30 other people in a U Haul truck.OR run like Hell across the border before they put the big fence up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:
 
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