Problems drawing the ball on simonis 760

[His Boy Elroy]

I'm having problems miscueing on my draw shots. I've been drawing foe 42 years. I know how it's done. This miscueing started about about a year ago when I bought a few new cues that were of much better quality than what I had been using.

I've been thinking maybe the tips were too hard, then I was told if you can draw you can draw. It doesn't matter if the tip is hard or soft. I'm also aware that the tips I am using are quality ones.

So now I'm thinking it's my simonis 760. I know the pros used it for a year before they told simonis it was too fast and simonis gave them 860. Every cloth I've ever had on my table was too slow IMO so I put 760 on it about 7 years ago.

There must be something wrong with the air in my basement because it was never very fast. Not even on the first day. I'd watch matches on TV and the 860 the pros were playing on was much faster. It is, however, faster than any other cloth I've ever had.

Now I'm thinking, maybe in order to make it fast they had to cut back on friction, and maybe you're not supposed to be able to draw well on 760. Maybe my draws would go twice as far on 860 with the same hit put on them. Maybe with the higher capabilities my new cues afford me along with my frustration at the lack of distance I'm getting, I'm trying unrealistic Mike Massey type draws and that's why I'm miscueing.

So now you're saying, "Why are you asking us, you knucklehead? Get to a poolroom and see for yourself if the ball draws better on 860." As I've stated in a few previous posts; I'm kinda bashful. That's why I'm asking you.

 

[Mikjary]

All I know is when I stroke a draw shot on 760, the cue ball sits there and spins before it grabs. It seems to lose its power just sitting there. If I draw on a cut shot, the ball hooks rarely. It slides too much to do anything. 760 is great for billiard tables, not pool tables.

I don't know why the game had to change to support Simonis cloth. The old cloths were just fine. It's just a matter of money and Simonis has cornered the market...until the next sponsor comes along with a different cloth and new money. :frown:

Best,
Mike (I hate to bunt balls around the table)

 

[ENGLISH!]

All I know is when I stroke a draw shot on 760, the cue ball sits there and spins before it grabs. It seems to lose its power just sitting there. If I draw on a cut shot, the ball hooks rarely. It slides too much to do anything. 760 is great for billiard tables, not pool tables.

I don't know why the game had to change to support Simonis cloth. The old cloths were just fine. It's just a matter of money and Simonis has cornered the market...until the next sponsor comes along with a different cloth and new money. :frown:

Best,
Mike (I hate to bunt balls around the table)

Mike,

As you know the old cloth separated those with a stroke from those that did not really have one.

Best,
Rick

 

[iusedtoberich]

In my experience, drawing on 760 is the easiest of any of the pool cloths.

If you can't draw the ball at least a table length starting from a short shot of a foot or two in distance, on any decent equipment (cloth, balls, table), you don't know how to draw. I'm just a middle of the road C player and I can do that almost every time.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I think seven year old cloth is broken in enough that it is not slick.

It takes more than new cloth to make a table play fast. The cushions are a big part too. Where they ever changed out?

Be careful comparing your table speed with matches played during pro events. When a match is professionally broadcast there is a huge bank of high intensity lights about the table which heats and dries out the cloth making it very fast. Often the tv table at a tourney plays different than the others.

Humidity played a factor. The drier the air the faster the table.

Finally in my experience a player is just not hitting as low as they think on the cueball.

I'm having problems miscueing on my draw shots. I've been drawing foe 42 years. I know how it's done. This miscueing started about about a year ago when I bought a few new cues that were of much better quality than what I had been using.

I've been thinking maybe the tips were too hard, then I was told if you can draw you can draw. It doesn't matter if the tip is hard or soft. I'm also aware that the tips I am using are quality ones.

So now I'm thinking it's my simonis 760. I know the pros used it for a year before they told simonis it was too fast and simonis gave them 860. Every cloth I've ever had on my table was too slow IMO so I put 760 on it about 7 years ago.

There must be something wrong with the air in my basement because it was never very fast. Not even on the first day. I'd watch matches on TV and the 860 the pros were playing on was much faster. It is, however, faster than any other cloth I've ever had.

Now I'm thinking, maybe in order to make it fast they had to cut back on friction, and maybe you're not supposed to be able to draw well on 760. Maybe my draws would go twice as far on 860 with the same hit put on them. Maybe with the higher capabilities my new cues afford me along with my frustration at the lack of distance I'm getting, I'm trying unrealistic Mike Massey type draws and that's why I'm miscueing.

So now you're saying, "Why are you asking us, you knucklehead? Get to a poolroom and see for yourself if the ball draws better on 860." As I've stated in a few previous posts; I'm kinda bashful. That's why I'm asking you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

 

[Mikjary]

Mike,

As you know the old cloth separated those with a stroke from those that did not really have one.

Best,
Rick

Bring back two shot rollout!! I used to play for stroke shots to get an edge.

Best,
Mike

 

[CreeDo]

Usually players struggle going to the slower cloth... 760 should be easy as pie.
I grew up playing on 760 and was drawing full table back when I was a C player (last tuesday lol)
...I couldn't do it at the 860 pool rooms. Now I can do it on 860 but it's still more work.

The thing about slippery cloth is that the ball goes sideways more before it starts hooking backwards,
so drawing from a cut shot may not get the immediate backwards movement you expect.

Often the pros are playing on new cloth, pool halls sometimes redo all the cloth just for a pro event.
So that + tony's TV table explanation might be why their 860 seems faster on TV.
But trust me, 760 is faster (even comparing old 760 to new 860).

I think the tip thing is affecting you. Either a harder tip is actually hurting your draw (don't think so)
or the fear of miscue is making you avoid hitting as low as you should (much more likely).

Maybe there's some other subtle thing going on, how thoroughly do you pick your tip when you get a new one?
Or do you try to use one right off the rack? You should pick the crap out of it until the tip looks like buckwheat's
head, so it can hold maximum chalk. The chalk probably adds a lil friction and with all those pick holes and 'hair'
the tip feels less rock hard. You'll have less fear of miscue and might find yourself drawing confidently again.

 

[berko]

Or, since the 760 never played fast, perhaps it was installed poorly/incorrectly.

 

[Poolhalljunkie]

Speed

Or, since the 760 never played fast, perhaps it was installed poorly/incorrectly.

Put your hand flat on the table press down and slide it across your table, if the cloth bunches up at all then it wasn't installed correctly. Or you have really high humidity

 

[hang-the-9]

Cloth should have nothing to do with a miscue, it may cause you to draw less though, or more.

You may be hitting too low, or the tip could be too hard.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Cloth should have nothing to do with a miscue, it may cause you to draw less though, or more.

You may be hitting too low, or the tip could be too hard.

Or your stoke is just bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

Most cloth slows down in the first 1-4 months depending on use. All simonis streaches a lot in the first 1-4 months. 760 has more nylon in it than 860 so it will streach more and slow down more (10% in 860, 30% in 760 ). A lot of table mech's dont like to pull the rail cloth very tight because you can get dimples in the rail. 760 bed and rail cloth will slow down a lot from the "new" cloth speed. You said the 760 is 7 yrs old, but the miscueing started about a year ago. Good chance you're hitting the cue ball to hard because the bed and rail speed has dropped so much. The bed cloth is probably much slower in the summer due to humidity. Also, when a player starts having problems with draw. he usually reads that the cue must be "level". This is a myth! If you level out and stay level, you WILL miscue. You must hit down to the bottom of the ball to draw it any kind of distance. Players like Alex, Hohmann, Efren, etc that look like they are level, change the angle in the final stroke, they have to, or they would scoop the cue ball every time. I would start out elavating the butt of the cue to draw the ball, then go more level and more level ( still hitting down at the bottom of the ball ) until you miscue. Then raise the butt up just slightly. Also, I would have a table mech check your table out. Its easy to re streach the bed cloth, the rails are another issue.
Good luck
Miscue's can get in your head

 

[RADAR]

mike,

as you know the old cloth separated those with a stroke from those that did not really have one.

Best,
rick

i second that. Been saying that for years. I also think you will have less issues with ball skidding!

 

[mantis99]

As others have said, you should be able to draw easier on 760 than any other cloth. If you are miscueing at this point, I highly doubt it has anything to do with your tip or cue. I assume you are chalking every time if you have played for that long, so any decent tip and cue should draw just fine.

As much as you may hate to accept it after playing for so long, you have probably developed a hitch or problem in your stroke that is causing it. I had it happen after about 8 years of almost never miscueing. I had begun accelerating too quickly and gripping too hard on the cue causing the tip to dip quickly and frequent miscues on low draw shots to occur. I would look to your stroke for the answer.

Maybe try recording from a few different angles and watching in slow motion to see what may be happening. It is usually a subtle thing that is causing it. Try that, or maybe have a lesson with a qualified instructor who can diagnose the problem.

 

[Ralph Kramden]

I'm having problems miscueing on my draw shots. I've been drawing foe 42 years. I know how it's done. This miscueing started about about a year ago when I bought a few new cues that were of much better quality than what I had been using.

I've been thinking maybe the tips were too hard, then I was told if you can draw you can draw. It doesn't matter if the tip is hard or soft. I'm also aware that the tips I am using are quality ones.

So now I'm thinking it's my simonis 760. I know the pros used it for a year before they told simonis it was too fast and simonis gave them 860. Every cloth I've ever had on my table was too slow IMO so I put 760 on it about 7 years ago.

There must be something wrong with the air in my basement because it was never very fast. Not even on the first day. I'd watch matches on TV and the 860 the pros were playing on was much faster. It is, however, faster than any other cloth I've ever had.

Now I'm thinking, maybe in order to make it fast they had to cut back on friction, and maybe you're not supposed to be able to draw well on 760. Maybe my draws would go twice as far on 860 with the same hit put on them. Maybe with the higher capabilities my new cues afford me along with my frustration at the lack of distance I'm getting, I'm trying unrealistic Mike Massey type draws and that's why I'm miscueing.

So now you're saying, "Why are you asking us, you knucklehead? Get to a poolroom and see for yourself if the ball draws better on 860." As I've stated in a few previous posts; I'm kinda bashful. That's why I'm asking you.

A dehumidifier set at 65% or so might help.

 

[chalkdust]

INMO... We try to hit harder to get the draw on the 760, the focus shuld be on the follow through to get the desired result. For that draw stroke we need to reach out and try and touch ther object with the cue tip.

 

[His Boy Elroy]

Lots of interesting input. Thanks everyone. Although Tony in M.D, I did prefer your first post to your second.

 

[Palmetto cue]

Just a guess, but make sure you have a loose back hand grip. Also, what are you seeing the cueball do? Is it just stopping?

 

[mantis99]

Just a guess, but make sure you have a loose back hand grip. Also, what are you seeing the cueball do? Is it just stopping?

Miscuing would have nothing to do with his cloth. Besides, even slow 760 should draw better than most other cloths that people can draw very easily on. His original post does not talk only about the amount of draw, but also the fact that he is miscuing. This is obviously a stroke fault, and not a fault of the cloth.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Playing with a "nervous tension" is ideal, and this means firm, but not tight

All I know is when I stroke a draw shot on 760, the cue ball sits there and spins before it grabs. It seems to lose its power just sitting there. If I draw on a cut shot, the ball hooks rarely. It slides too much to do anything. 760 is great for billiard tables, not pool tables.

I don't know why the game had to change to support Simonis cloth. The old cloths were just fine. It's just a matter of money and Simonis has cornered the market...until the next sponsor comes along with a different cloth and new money. :frown:

Best,
Mike (I hate to bunt balls around the table)

What you say is true, the super fast cloth has made the game less desirable.

The only thing you can do on 760 is actually shorten your bridge, firm up BOTH hands on the cue and concentrate on hitting the cue ball with a "piercing" stroke. Accuracy is essential to drawing and controlling the ball on super fast cloth.

DO NOT loosen up or you will have serious issues when it's time to play under pressure. Playing with a "nervous tension" is ideal, and this means firm, but not tight hand pressure.