Proud Professionals

[Southpaw]

Of course, you are going to step up for him as you are friends. I believe the two of you celebrated your birthday recently together, if memory serves me right.

If he told your wife or girlfriend what he told me in LIVE CHAT, you may not feel the same way about him.

I read the words he states about professional players, and I come away with quite a different opinion about him, Southpaw.

Thanks for your opinion about your friend.

JAM

I wasnt there and do not know anything about what he told you on a live chat. Im just saying you are a little off base about him supporting this sport. You and I have exchanged reps and you know I have never attacked you in any way. And yes I am defending a friend on this particular aspect. I have nothing personal against anyone on this forum.

Southpaw

 

[jay helfert]

I'm sorry... I thought everyone knew already that I work in professional sports doing sponsorship/promotions/marketing. I wasn't trying to be aloof!

Well, what does that have to do with finding sponsors for a pro pool tour?

 

[lodini]

Since this is what you do for a living, what can or should be done to light the fire under pocket billiards? They got poker mainstream...

I could write a novel on this subject (I don't claim to be an expert, I mean more that I have thought a LOT about this)... unfortunately, any ideas I have would bore the crap out of all of you since my experience is in selling sponsorship for pre-existing well-established entities with large and loyal fan bases. How do you convince a sponsor to buy into something that doesn't exist? That's the million dollar question, and everyone seems to have their own answers. My answer (as unoriginal as it is) is simple... if you build it, they will come. The "tour" or "pro league" or whatever must be developed and deemed successful first. And unfortunately, that is not where my experience lies.

But I would say most importantly, it starts with a lot of money.

 

[JAM]

playing what forum games JAM? I've been getting 5-6 pm's a day telling me that you were following me from thread to thread taking cheap shots at me. YOU are the one that instigates every argument you get in.

Au contraire, I post a whole lot more on AzBilliards than following you around. Interestingly, though, your posts in the threads I am in always have the same theme: ridiculing professional players.

I don't care whether you think I'm a fan or not. I've done more for pool and pool players than you can or will ever know. Wow, you've gone on the tourney trail with Keith and have some stories. Way to go.

Again, you have no idea what I have done for American pool, and I will never dignify you with a reply. My record speaks for itself.

As far as the tournament trail with Keith and the stories, I don't really consider them as a contribution to pool. However, my other activities, the ones you have no knowledge of, I do consider as a contribution to pool -- AMERICAN pool.

And you are right, I don't care about your opinions as you don't give anyone on here respect for theirs. You are as one sided as I've ever seen. You spend the majority of your time on here arguing with people and then telling them that they are trolls and idiots when YOU started it. Somehow you have it in your mind that being the girlfriend of a former pool champion makes your opinions right and others' wrong. Don't bother replying as you are going back to where you belong, IGNORE.

You can't take the truth. LOL!

Just don't say the same derogatory remark to another female on this forum again in LIVE CHAT again. You may not like the end result next time.

You're like a child. You spew your words out like a scared little rubber chicken and then run away and hide behind an Ignore button. That's funny!

JAM

 

[Jason Robichaud]

I think both parties have personal feelings on the matter... lets just say the balls are tied up and neither player is going to break them open... re-rack!!!

 

[JAM]

I wasnt there and do not know anything about what he told you on a live chat. Im just saying you are a little off base about him supporting this sport. You and I have exchanged reps and you know I have never attacked you in any way. And yes I am defending a friend on this particular aspect. I have nothing personal against anyone on this forum.

Southpaw

That's what friends are for. Some people have to buy their friends. I've seen many a person buy their friendships with pro players. They like to hang out with them on golf courses and then talk behind their backs like they're "scum of the earth."

I understand friendship quite well. True friendship.

JAM

 

[JAM]

...re-rack!!!

When the IPT came to the fore, for the first time in a very long time, the pool players I saw up front and close were "proud professionals."

They were all dressed up in their Sunday best, and the payouts were great. Everybody was going to go home a winner. Even if they came in last place, they would at least make expenses. This concept was great, but the IPT business model was flawed because the tour could not be self-sustaining.

The reason is multi-faceted, but my belief is that the popularity of pool in America is poor, and thus, no corporate sponsors want to invest in it, keeping the payouts low.

If Mark Griffin's mission or vision, for lack of a better word, can create a self-sustaining tour, then that is a step in the right direction.

JAM

 

[Jason Robichaud]

I could write a novel on this subject (I don't claim to be an expert, I mean more that I have thought a LOT about this)... unfortunately, any ideas I have would bore the crap out of all of you since my experience is in selling sponsorship for pre-existing well-established entities with large and loyal fan bases. How do you convince a sponsor to buy into something that doesn't exist? That's the million dollar question, and everyone seems to have their own answers. My answer (as unoriginal as it is) is simple... if you build it, they will come. The "tour" or "pro league" or whatever must be developed and deemed successful first. And unfortunately, that is not where my experience lies.

But I would say most importantly, it starts with a lot of money.

So what do advertisers look at... number of viewers, customer appeal in that market, popularity... What is the major factor when landing sponsorship. What impact does the athletes have on the decision.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

When the IPT came to the fore, for the first time in a very long time, the pool players I saw up front and close were "proud professionals."

They were all dressed up in their Sunday best, and the payouts were great. Everybody was going to go home a winner. Even if they came in last place, they would at least make expenses. This concept was great, but the IPT business model was flawed because the tour could not be self-sustaining.

The reason is multi-faceted, but my belief is that the popularity of pool in America is poor, and thus, no corporate sponsors want to invest in it, keeping the payouts low.

If Mark Griffin's mission or vision, for lack of a better word, can create a self-sustaining tour, then that is a step in the right direction.

JAM

Lets hope... I would love to see pool here on par with UK snooker. I like snooker better, but I think the players devote their life to pool the same as snooker players. They deserve the same rewards. Most racks run $$, good prize $$ etc. They have my respect just because of the life they live to follow a dream.

 

[corvette1340]

That's what friends are for. Some people have to buy their friends. I've seen many a person buy their friendships with pro players. They like to hang out with them on golf courses and then talk behind their backs like they're "scum of the earth."

I understand friendship quite well. True friendship.

JAM

lol, the pros I play golf with (Corey, Gabe, Shannon) are all doing things to better themselves. You have never seen me say one negative thing about them. As to buying my friendship, I won Shannon more money on the golf course than he could ever win me in the pool room and I took a lot of money from Corey and Gabe.

Do you just toss up letters and however they land on the floor is what you type? Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Blackjack]

I think to get the conversation back on track, the question I would put out there would be this - what are the players willing to do?

Way back in the 80's - before Vince McMahon brought big money into the world of pro wrestling, I remember driving from Florida to Jackson,Tennessee with 4 other guys - wrestling 4 matches in one day (a matin?e and evening show) and getting paid $100 for the entire trip.

Along with performing in that show, we had to go out to a strip mall, do a live radio show, anything they could think of to fill the seats - we helped sell the show. We weren't paid for any of that - not directly. We knew that the more asses that we put in the seats, the more money the show made, and the more we would get paid.

That's just the way it was. In between matches we doubled as parking lot security, sold programs, hot dogs, popcorn, etc.

Would you think that Keith would make free appearances at the YMCA's and the Boy's and Girls Clubs or local pool rooms to generate interest for the game locally? I've set those up for other players all across the country - and I have helped out with the UPA when they would go perform trick shots and have basketball games in their event cities.

Keith is very marketable - and he could even sell autographed t-shirts that could market him in accordance with his Grady Season's fame, or his legendary status as The Earthquake. He could market "The World's Got The 8" t-shirts - or "Its like a nightmare isn't it" caps. Think about the potential.

It's very easy to get out there and promote the sport - if Keith is interested in doing something like that (or if any player is interested) let me know. All it takes is a phone call, and scheduling a date to make it happen.

Merchandising is easier than you would think, and it really comes down to putting your mind to it and then getting out there and doing it. I think its a great opportunity for Keith - or any player to promote themselves and the game of pool at the same time.

That would bring more exposure, and if everybody did there part, it would bring attention the entire game.

I remember back when I was in wrestling, NOBODY ever thought anybody would ever make a lot of money being a professional wrestler. Times changed. The same could happen for pool.

 

[JAM]

Lets hope... I would love to see pool here on par with UK snooker. I like snooker better, but I think the players devote their life to pool the same as snooker players. They deserve the same rewards. Most racks run $$, good prize $$ etc. They have my respect just because of the life they live to follow a dream.

Snooker, though, is popular in Canada and England, I think. Well, at least it used to be.

I remember a new neighbor I had years ago who was from Canada. When she discovered I had an interest in pool, she was very familiar with all the snooker pool players' names from Canada.

Pocket billiard games like 8-ball, 9-ball, 10-ball, one-pocket, and straight pool do not seem to have a popular fan base in the States. Go to Korea, China, Taiwan, Thailand, Philippines, you will see young people practicing in pool, trying to hone their skills to become a champion.

One reason is that in those countries, professional players receive respect, unlike here in the States. As well, what we consider low payouts here, you can live quite comfortable in the year 2008 in most of those countries.

I remember Evgeny Stalev from Russia told me that he could live comfortably on $300 a month in Russia. I can't live comfortably on $300 a week where I live.

At any rate, a self-sustaining tour, Mark Griffin's idea, is a good one. Since Corporate America ain't going to invest one penny in American pool, then it is up to American pool to support itself. To date, that hasn't happened. If he can get a tour launched and get it self-sustaining, who knows how far it will go?

Maybe, just maybe young American boys and girls will pick up a cue stick at their Girls and Boys club and learn the value of good sportsmanship and practice makes perfect. Maybe there will be a Girl Scouts patch for 8-ball someday. Maybe the 4H Club will host a tournament for young boys and girls. These are all hypothetical, of course, but if a legitimate tour happens and professional pool players are respected as sports champions that they are, then there's hope.

JAM

 

[JAM]

...Would you think that Keith would make free appearances at the YMCA's and the Boy's and Girls Clubs or local pool rooms to generate interest for the game locally?...

We recently tried to do a show at Walter Reed Army Medical Hospital, but right at the time we tried to approach them with a pool exhibition concept, the veterans had a controversial happening which made front-page news. It kind of shut the communication down, as other things were more important, like getting the veterans decent quarters.

Every Christmas, we go to a local nursing home and hang out with the residents, and Keith has done several charity pool tournaments within driving distance to our home.

Keith is very marketable - and he could even sell autographed t-shirts that could market him in accordance with his Grady Season's fame, or his legendary status as The Earthquake. He could market "The World's Got The 8" t-shirts - or "Its like a nightmare isn't it" caps. Think about the potential.

When I first joined this forum, Blackjack, I offered to send to the first 10 responders a free autographed picture of Keith at Christmas time, trying to connect with the pool fan base on this forum. I received quite a few PMs stating they really would love to have a picture of Keith. I sent out 133 of them at a cost of 7 bucks apiece. The Postal Priority cost $3.75, I think at that time.

Shortly thereafter, a poster stated that these were probably all fake and that they were worthless. It really hurt my feelings, after all the trouble, time, and expense we went to sending them out.

Merchandising is easier than you would think, and it really comes down to putting your mind to it and then getting out there and doing it. I think its a great opportunity for Keith - or any player to promote themselves and the game of pool at the same time.

That would bring more exposure, and if everybody did their part, it would bring attention the entire game....

There comes a time when you can only expend so much money, Blackjack, speaking as a pool player household.

The tournament trail was a financial burden. I now know that in the United States, you have to pick your tournaments wisely.

I am still working on other American pool-related projects, when time allows. When I'm done, I think it will be worth my time and effort. Satifaction of a job well done will be my payoff. And it will be a job well done to the best of my ability.

JAM

 

[frankncali]

JAM

No one myself included caompared a Great Pool PLayer to a Fry cook in terms of skill. Those two were just just professions that I thought of quickly.
Having skills does not entitle someone to weatlth or $$$ for having that skill. I know a guy that races remote control cars. He is unbeatable. When he shows up everyone groans. But theres no money in remote control car racing. He knows it and thats why its more or less a hobby. He loves doing it.

I would tell Buddy the same thing I would tell anyone. If your in a deadend job then get out. This is simple. No matter how good a person
becomes at their job the job itself only is worth a certain amount.

Race car drivers drove just as good when they made little or no money. golfers spend years playing unbelieveable shots without ANY $$$. The demand and ways to market became available and a viable sport expanded.

I really hope that Pool takes off. In my opinion the game (9ball or 10ball) isnt right and perhaps singles isnt the way to go. However, sports evolve.
Basketball has changed night and day and extremists and "purists" still probably want the old rules back. However modernizing has created a sort of commodity.

I think you misunderstood my comparision as a dig as the talent. Sorry not
the way I meant it. Pool as a game takes alot of talent and a good bit of luck. Pool as a sport is the hardest sport in the world and its an easy debate. At times you don't even get a chance to play. No other sport is this way.

Lets hope that some opportunities arrive for pool players AND that the players recognize that with effort that they can do something that they love for an occupation.

 

[watchez]

Well said Black Jack. Exactly my thoughts earlier. Obviously, the Professional Pool tour fairy is not going to come knocking on the player's door. The one's that go out & promote themselves, promote pool are the one's earning a living. The one's that sit at home & keep waiting for the doorbell to ring don't make anything. When the professional pool player can comprehend that, it will turn into something.

Corvette - You are in a no win situation with JAM. Be careful or you will get a negative rep calling you a garbage pale from Keith McCready himself, just like I did.

I do find it funny when JAM speaks for the professional pool player since she is cohabitating with one and only one but feels that she has the right to speak for the Nick, Buddy and Earls of the pool world.

 

[JAM]

Corvette - You are in a no win situation with JAM. Be careful or you will get a negative rep calling you a garbage pale from Keith McCready himself, just like I did.

He actually wanted to respond to you sooner after what you wrote about him, but I told him to cool down a little. Later that evening, rather than lowering himself to respond to your lies about him, he elected to give you negative rep. I thought the garbage pale comment was right on the money!

I do find it funny when JAM speaks for the professional pool player since she is cohabitating with one and only one but feels that she has the right to speak for the Nick, Buddy and Earls of the pool world.

If you don't believe me, show this thread to Nick, Buddy, and Earl. Find out for yourself what their thoughts might be.

It wouldn't be too hard for me to contact Earl Strickland and respectfully request that he respond to some of these assine comments made about professional players, but people like you don't deserve a response from a world-class champion like Earl Strickland.

JAM

 

[watchez]

One thing I never do is lie. That leads to cheating & dumping.

One thing I can do is admit my mistakes. Something your household ought to try.

One last thing I can do is see beyond someone because they can draw their ball. The one's that do it with character get my respect......no matter how many titles (or non titles) they might have.

Earl can stay in your corner if that is where he feels will suit him best. That type of attitude is what gets public opinion eventually put in place - just ask Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire or Roger Clemens.

 

[JAM]

One thing I never do is lie. That leads to cheating & dumping.

Your lie about Keith McCready being picked for the part of Grady Seasons was insulting to Keith when you wrote it on this forum several weeks ago, but that is why you made the comment. It is, by the way, a lie.

You stated on this forum that a knowledgeable source told you that me and Mr. Wilson ate dinner together, trying to paint a picture of me as if I am in with the moderators. Another lie.

I use the word "liar" very sparingly, but you are a liar, no question about it.

One thing I can do is admit my mistakes. Something your household ought to try.

Practice what you preach. When you speak untruths, it is unbecoming. Correct the error of your ways and admit you are a liar.

One last thing I can do is see beyond someone because they can draw their ball. The one's that do it with character get my respect......no matter how many titles (or non titles) they might have.

Earl can stay in your corner if that is where he feels will suit him best. That type of attitude is what gets public opinion eventually put in place - just ask Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire or Roger Clemens.

Why, thank you. I would rather hang out with Earl Strickland any day of the week than a Watchez.

JAM

 

[Blackjack]

I am still working on other American pool-related projects, when time allows. When I'm done, I think it will be worth my time and effort. Satifaction of a job well done will be my payoff. And it will be a job well done to the best of my ability.

JAM

I can make a bunch of these and set it up for you to sell them on a website - any color you want. Let me know if you're interested and I can help you out with it.

 

[JAM]

I can make a bunch of these and set it up for you to sell them on a website - any color you want. Let me know if you're interested and I can help you out with it.

Thanks, Blackjack. That's a very nice offer. I appreciate it very much. I can't wait to show it to Keith.

JAM