What was opinion of the pro players?? I think your over complicating things. :grin:
Prove CTE does not work.
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What was opinion of the pro players?? I think your over complicating things. :grin:
Are you really visualizing two edges? What does your two eyes really do?
Now prove your 1/2 tip pivot is equal to a sweep
You're not visualizing two edges. You're aligning yourself to the position where you're able to see CTE and A, B or C. If you can imagine it, if you look straight ahead from that alignment, that is the perception line you pivot off of. It's not the line to CTE and it's not the line to A, B or C, it is the alignment achieved when you're in position to see both points. That's why the PSR, proper alignment are critical to the system, this all allows the player to consistantly move 1/2 tip into the proper aim line.
I've heard more than one person say all shots could be made with 8 fractions, straight, 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8 and extremely thin. Maybe it is 10 if you include 1/3 and 2/3. CTE/Pro One is a bit similar except it is much more objective and fine tunes that fractional aiming concept. Take a left thick cut. You're perception is CTE, ETA. Your sweep pivots the tip of the cue 1/2 tip left. This sweep results in a cut that is somewhere between a straight shot and 1/2 ball hit. On some shots, 1/8 might make the ball on the right side of the pocket, 1/3 might make the ball on the left side of the pocket. CTE/Pro One makes the ball dead center pocket. In other words, it's much more fine tuned than fractional aiming. I think players familiar with fractional aiming would agree they may adjust from the fractional line on some shots (or many) to cheat the pocket or to even make the shot. CTE/Pro One already does that, it's automatically built into the system.
You take extremely competent system users like Stan and Stevie, they now know they can make a very slight adjustment, and have the control to do it, where they can cheat the pocket. I suspect Gerry understands and can implement this as well. CTE/Pro One takes you to that exact center pocket aim line as objectively as any aiming system can. An advanced player with a straight stroke can then work off the known center pocket aim line with some feel if they choose to by using BHE or an angled cue.
I wish I could explain the exact mathematics but frankly, I don't see the relevance. More importantly, I understand the power of a system that takes the player to the center pocket aim line.
Neil, You must be referring to me. I actually have bought the 2nd DVD, and studied it, and tried it on my table. As well as countless other products over the years. I've spent a lot of time gambling, practicing, setting up shots, etc etc. The end result is I'm in the exact same pecking order in my local pool halls. Just as every other single player is. No one changes speeds over the years. No one (unless they are new to the game).
What is your speed? I know you are decent, but you are no champ. Why not? Why aren't you 3 speeds better than you were 3 years ago? Why aren't you Brandon Shuff's speed? Why isn't Brandon Shuff Corey's speed? Why isn't Corey Shane's speed?
Its because everyone falls into a *standard distribution* of abilities. I happen to fall on the lower end of the pool distribution. I dedicated my life to the game, and can barely break into B territory. You have done the same, and are on a higher end of the distribution. Barton has done the same, and he's on the low A range of the distribution. Why people fail to see this is beyond me. You all must think everyone can get to Shane's speed given enough time and practice. The same is true for ANY activity you can name. From estimating the distance between two dots on a piece of paper, to hitting a baseball, to math class, to striking a pool ball. Sure, you can improve all of these with practice, no doubt. But once you've spent years doing something, thats all you are going to get. You have already taken your place in the standard distribution. And if you made the "tests" easy enough that everyone would get an "A" then the test simply is not hard enough to show the standard distribution.
Brandon Shuff just learned Pro1 last year or the year before. Has he played any better than before? I don't think so. He's still a middle of the pack pro player. Stevie more same thing. Is he any better in the past 5 years than he was 15 years ago? Remember, he was in "hiding" before his tournament run and was a gambler. We can go all day with this. People do not significantly improve, except when they are first learning something.
To Barton, you always challenge me with beating a "ghost" of crazy abilities (for me) like the 9 ball ghost or one pocket ghost. What if I challenged you to something "realistic"? You told me your high run in straight pool was I believe 98, years ago. Well, since that time, you've jumped up and down that you are so much better *because* of your lessons with Stan in the past year, and other things you picked up on the road. So, lets see if you really are better. Best your high run by 30%. See if you can run 130. You must certainly be able to run just 30 more balls with all the new knowledge you have gained the past few years?
Its easy when learning a new technique to think you are better. I did the same thing with Perfect Aim. I jumped up and down on these boards that it was the best thing since sliced bread. 4 years later, I still shift my head around to get my eyes as Gene says in the right spot. But guess what, I still lose to the exact same guys I've been losing to for the past 20 years. And still beat the same guys I used to beat. Its easy to think you are better at something, especially when learning something new. But the proof is in the pudding. How you actually play. Has your pecking order changed? We've all been around pool all our lives, and someone having their change in their pecking order is *extremely* rare.
Brandon Shuff has been working some with CTE but he hasn't incorporated it into his "playing game" yet. Ask Stevie Moore if he thinks he's a better player. He's also older and now has a full time job that he balances with playing pool. He's had to become better fundamentally, to compete at the same level, as he doesn't have the same amount of time to dedicate to pool as he had in the past.
If the system didn't work for you or agree with you, that's fine. Clearly, it isn't going to be the system of choice for everyone. Stan wouldn't disagree with that I believe.
If the system didn't work for you or agree with you, that's fine. Clearly, it isn't going to be the system of choice for everyone. Stan wouldn't disagree with that I believe.
Compensation.
Does BHE zero out cue ball squirt all the time ?
Or makes the throw and squirt offset each other ???
What if your stuck near the rail and you have to bridge in front of the pivot point ?
Than use Duckie's arrow thingy,lol.
I actually feel sorry for players that feel this way. I felt this way for the longest time and it even caused me to quit the game for quite a long time. I lost years really. I just shook my head at how good some guys were and just figured I couldn't get there. I'm 38 now and I really lost probably 10 years where I could have been working on my game. I can only imagine how good I would be playing right now.
But then again, I probably wouldn't have the life I have now with its many blessings. So I guess it worked out alright.
Anyway, the other night I played the 10 Ball ghost even for like 3 hours. Might not sound like much to some but lately I've been playing the ghost ahead sets instead of races. I think the races are really misleading since you can sort of get lucky or unlucky here or there and end up winner or loser and really take more from the race than you should. Ahead sets are much more telling. I think I could really take it to the 10 Ball ghost if I broke the balls to beat him instead of breaking them like I would an actual match but my break needs work so I smash them.
Anyway, 3 or 4 years ago I had no chance against the 10 ball ghost. NONE!
People do get better. Even later in life. You just have to crack the code -- figure out what you REALLY need to work on. For me, I had to really work hard on my stroke.
Once I feel I can no longer improve I'm not so sure I will find the game as enjoyable. I'm actually amazed that others do.
So CTE doesn't work when BHE does not work ?
Banks
Banned
Then there are those that have never been better than a C player, but still try to push this stuff on others. If some of them stopped spending so much time hocking this nonsense and trying to avoid actual proof and instead spent time practicing, maybe they'd get better, too. Well, some of them, anyways.
Speaking of C players..
So, you've got a 9' Diamond at home, fancy cues, lessons and apparently are some sort of CTE genius. Tell the crowd, since you were an APA 6 over a year ago, are you a 7/9 yet?
I mean, hell, you just started playing a year or so before that, right? You've got to be capped out now since this system is the tits.I'm just busting your chops, because I know the answer will be a simple, "No." So, let's review this.. Stevie Moore pedalled CTE and his performance went down.. JB pushed it relentlessly for years and still takes to the table like a newbie.. you've got all of these things, fight for it like it's your life, but you've only marginally improved at best. I'm beginning to see a pattern.
Rich, I am amazed that as long as you have been on here, as much as you have read, you still don't see the forest for the trees.
1. As long as you believe you can't get any better, you are doomed to staying at the exact same level you are. Your subconscious will guarantee that for you.
2. You still seem to equate aiming systems to pool nirvana. They aren't. For once, please understand that. Aiming systems put you on the right line to make the shot, that is all they do. You still have to stroke straight to make the shot.
On top of that, there is much more to the game than just making open balls. There is kicking, safety play, speed control, mind control, ect. Aiming is just one part of the game. So, to equate someones speed improving or not due to using an aiming system is very disingenuous. That's like saying that when someone learns how to hit one rail kicks, there "level" should dramatically go up.
3. To go up in a level, one usually needs to change a number of things, not just one thing. Changing one thing most often leads to changing something else. Just getting on the right line to make a shot will not cause one to jump in levels. However, it will aid tremendously on making those tough shots, and making the easier ones more reliably.
4. The one thing that separates the upper levels is the mind. And only the mind. Any shortstop can do everything any pro can do. Some things they can do better than some pros can. But, once you know how to do things, it comes down to mind control. That mind control allows one to have higher consistency. At the upper levels, it often comes down to just one mistake.
5. Everything you can do to eliminate that one mistake, will aid your game. Sometimes that's an aiming system. Something that will give you confidence on being on the correct line. Couple that with a solid PSR and a straight stroke, and you now stop missing those easy shots. Add into that kicking systems, speed control drills, pattern play, safety play (cb control), and your game can't help but go up. There is NO such thing as being stuck at one level for ever unless you choose to stay there. The first step is believing that you can improve. There have been many testimonies on here of older guys improving after 30-40 years of playing, you are no exception to being able to do that also.
What level am I at? I'm a solid A player. I'm almost 60 (couple more months) and I am still improving. I would improve much faster if I actually had a reason to. Can't seem to find one anymore outside of personal satisfaction. And, I only play a couple hours a week, yet I am still improving. In the last three years, I went from some putting me at a B+, some at an A-, to some saying I should be upped to a AA.
It basically boils down to where I have my head at at the time. My best, which I would consider pro speed, was a period where I ran four or five 9 packs, a ten pack, and an unfinished 12 pack on a bar table in a couple of months. That's back when I was playing ten hours a day or more.
Now, I am not as consistent because I have no real goal anymore. Plus, I have CO
PD pretty bad which really hampers ones ability to play. Can't play consistently or think clearly when you are concentrating on just trying to breathe. Some days I can play for a couple of hours, some days just a couple of racks. Playing for fun just doesn't cut it for me for bringing out my best. Yet, having learned the proper way to play, I now can take a week off, and get on a table and run out the first rack with no warmups. I just get bored or can't breathe very well and then start making mistakes. I really wish I knew 40 years ago what I know now.
It just irks me to no end to see the opportunities you younger guys have that us older guys never had, and so many of you squander that opportunity and only want to scoff because you didn't immediately go up several levels in play. There is no magic pill. It's a combination of many little pills that will cure your game. But, you have to take those pills consistently, not just take a pill a couple of times and then say it didn't work. It's through the many small improvements that one sees the larger improvement.
After so many posts, how do you NOT understand that all CTE is, is a way to get one on the correct shot line for a center axis hit to make the ball center pocket? It has nothing to do with using english, nothing to do with position play. It is an aiming system, period. Not some kind of magic pill to playing great pool.
Once you KNOW you are lined up to center pocket, and you want to hit a different part of the pocket, you make a tiny adjustment in your aim. If you want to use english, you adjust for it the same way you always have.
All BHE does is negate the squirt and swerve when used with the proper pivot point and speed for your cue. If you have to use a bridge point other than the pivot point for that cue, you make adjustments from experience, commonly called "feel". I don't understand why you are seeming to have a problem with that??
Sorry, Neil.
Some sold CTE as magic pill. It doesn't matter where the pocket is.
They argued ghost ball does not work. Or you didn't have to imagine the two balls colliding . Some even argued there are only three shots in pool.
Some argued "feel" is thrown out of the window. Contact points were immaterial.
If that's what it is,. then it is.
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No advocate of CTE ever sold it as a magic pill, although a number of those against it have stated such. I, myself, have argued against ghost ball on here, and categorized my points on it. It's great for diagramming, not so great for actual play. When using CTE, one doesn't HAVE to imagine the two balls colliding. Once you are on the correct line to make the shot, no matter what way you aim, you should be able to turn your head away from the shot and still make it.
As to the "three shots", if you mean A, B or C when using CTE, then you are partially correct. Other than that, I don't know what you are referring to. "Feel" is thrown out the window if you are just making the ball to center pocket. You line up, and then stroke straight down that line and the ball goes in. You want to play position also, then, once you have your line to center pocket, you adjust for english. THAT is when feel comes into play, not in the initial line-up to center pocket.
For CTE, contact points are immaterial if going for center pocket with no english.
Well said Neil! As you stated CTE is simply a way of taking you to the correct shotline. Some of us just feel it's the most effective way to do so. Having said that great play is evident with other methods as well. It's just those of us who have worked on CTE feel it's the best way, not the only way.
Hasn't failed me yet if I choose BHE. A whole new subject though, exactly when will BHE not work?
Read Neil's answer.
And it looks like CTE'rs are no all on the same page what CTE is really all about.
Or how it's used.
No wonder, Stan is coming out with another dvd.
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What speed do you play at Banks?
Then there are those that have never been better than a C player, but still try to push this stuff on others. If some of them stopped spending so much time hocking this nonsense and trying to avoid actual proof and instead spent time practicing, maybe they'd get better, too. Well, some of them, anyways.
Speaking of C players..
So, you've got a 9' Diamond at home, fancy cues, lessons and apparently are some sort of CTE genius. Tell the crowd, since you were an APA 6 over a year ago, are you a 7/9 yet?
I'm just busting your chops, because I know the answer will be a simple, "No." So, let's review this.. Stevie Moore pedalled CTE and his performance went down.. JB pushed it relentlessly for years and still takes to the table like a newbie.. you've got all of these things, fight for it like it's your life, but you've only marginally improved at best. I'm beginning to see a pattern.
Banks
Banned
Decent local A, maybe low master. APA 7/9 for 2 or 3 years now(3 or 4 maybe?), been playing just over 9.
Any chance you would post a video so we can see how you play?
Banks
Banned
Maybe one of my friends or the bartender will be willing to set up something, because I don't really have a way to set my phone up to record play on a table(mount for angle, etc) and it hasn't really been a priority. I've played some with a few respected members here and have never had them call BS on me.. well, not yet, anyways.
Let me just preface any future video of myself by saying that I'm not a big fan of 9b. 