Prulhiere Cues...buyer beware

[Lonestar_jim]

Approximately 30 - 60 % less than
than an unnamed maker who sells on here,

Again my reason for buying from B.P. was mostly to spin the wheel and support a cue maker who looked new and was also getting some heat for his low prices.

 

[Hired Guns]

I bought a custom ordered sneaky 4 point from Brian back in Dec. Got it in May/June. He took some liberties in areas of making the cue that I had preferred he didn't do. Namely staining the wood. All in all this is a cue that plays decent and might sell on EBay for what I paid for it?

I just wanted to support someone who I thought was a new cue maker. Just to throw an order his way.

No PM bashing please.

Jim

Wonder if the cue was one of the few that was made with veneers?

 

[Mickey Qualls]

... Again my reason for buying from B.P. was mostly to spin the wheel and support a cue maker who looked new and was also getting some heat for his low prices.

This is one of the reasons I chose to purchase one of his cues...

I picked up one of his cue on the 'bay a few months ago.

There were pretty good reviews about his cues. If you do a search, you'll find a decent amount of 'endorsements' and the like (save for the most recent couple of threads). "And for the price, he's the best deal around" type of testimony. Anyone that has one of his cues swears by "the hit", and that the shafts "seem to have a low deflection quality to them", etc...

And while I realize the 'hit' is subjective, I figured it might be worth a small investment to find out more about this guy's cues. In one thread, I remember reading that he was still in the early stages of cuemaking. He wanted to bring a well-built cue to a player at a reasonable price. While the finish on many of his cues wasn't 'perfect', or there might be some buff marks and the like, it was still (as is said on AZB soooooo many times), "a monster cue for the price"

To me (and it seems others), the pricing reflected that. The only thing I could make an analogy to would be a 'factory second' train of thought. The cue may not be perfect visually, but still has the same quality as a higher end cue.

And with multiple glowing endorsements here (save for one or two disgruntled customers), I figured I'd keep an eye on this guy's auctions for a bar beater that had a nice hit to it.

I ended up catching one of his auctions for a wrapless at around $110.

It arrived a few days later. I opened it up , and yeah, it had a few 'blemishes' and 'scuff marks' and the like, but overall it was a decent looking cue. Hey, for a hair under $110, for a cue from an unknown...

Hit a few balls with it, and honestly didn't like "the hit". Went down and used it quite a few more times, but just wasn't my cup o' tea.
But as I said before, the "hit" is subjective. So I figured I'd use it for a break cue, or leave it in the rack for when company comes over, or even take it down to the poolhall and see if I could break even (or even MAKE money on it). :grin:

Then I read these threads, and the first thing I did was hustle downstairs to see if there was indeed a seam somewhere on it...

Yep... Seams... :frown:

Wrapping the 'exotic woods' around a maple core isn't what I expected. That's not what the auction led me to believe. I was given the impression that these 'exotic woods' were the actual woods that the cue would be constructed of. Not a 'wrap job'.
Even now, looking back at the original listing, the first line in the auction is "This is a simple and beautiful (exotic wood) cue with an (exotic wood) butt. Nowhere does it state that the exotic wood is wrapped around a maple core.

Truth be told, even if the 'wrap' had been disclosed in the auction, I might have still purchased a cue, based on the reviews of "the hit".

A while back, I found a Fury DL series on the 'bay. Fury Cues have been said to have a nice hit, and I agree. I also knew before I chose to bid that I was getting an 'overlay' cue.
'Overlay'. A fancy term for "decal". Which was disclosed in the auction.

While I didn't expect absolute perfection when I bid on that Prulhiere cue, I also didn't expect the outer wood to be 'wrapped' around a maple core. I would have preferred to know that I was purchasing (insert exotic wood here) wrapped around a maple core "to give it that $$$$ look at a fraction of the price", or any other sales pitch that told me exactly what I was getting into.

I can't, in good conscience, sell this cue to anyone without disclosing the 'wrap' technique.

And I can't see how someone (specifically the cuemaker) could sell it without disclosing this technique.

Mickey <---Didn't expect a Balabushka, but didn't expect a 'decal' cue, either...

 

[prulhiere cues]

I never set out to screw anyone on any deal. I wasn't trying to be misleading. I just assumed it was ok to have trade secrets. KFC keeps its spices secret. That isn't meant smart a$$, it is just to make a point. Many items you buy have a "secret." Thousands of products out there would never tell you their process no matter how much you asked. I am still trying to figure out why this is blowing up. People assume veneer is cheap. It is not. It is cut from full boards and is the same wood. The core is as any core, solid and balanced. This wasn't a secret to be sneaky as many would instantly jump on me for. It was just a method I found that allowed me to make a good playing product at a great price. My intentions were always in the interest of the player. I knew the economy was rough and was trying to make it possible to have a pretty, good hitting stick for any income level. The only reason it was a secret, as it is being called, is it was my trade secret, Too many people want to assume the worst and think I am trying to find a way to screw them over. Not the case. I also realize I keep digging a deeper hole by posting as at a certain point it doesn't matter what I say because so many people have already made up their mind that I am a crook. I am not the guy that a lot of you seem to think, and my motives were way different than you are assuming.

 

[Hired Guns]

So we go from " I make a FEW veneer cues. I have sold a few on eBay." to this method being your "trade secret".

You're the cue maker for the people, we get it, but all of the cues you sold on eBay have sold between $100-$200, $255 tops and you're still going to say only a FEW of those were made with veneers? In your own words "please".

I never set out to screw anyone on any deal. I wasn't trying to be misleading. I just assumed it was ok to have trade secrets. KFC keeps its spices secret. That isn't meant smart a$$, it is just to make a point. Many items you buy have a "secret." Thousands of products out there would never tell you their process no matter how much you asked. I am still trying to figure out why this is blowing up. People assume veneer is cheap. It is not. It is cut from full boards and is the same wood. The core is as any core, solid and balanced. This wasn't a secret to be sneaky as many would instantly jump on me for. It was just a method I found that allowed me to make a good playing product at a great price. My intentions were always in the interest of the player. I knew the economy was rough and was trying to make it possible to have a pretty, good hitting stick for any income level. The only reason it was a secret, as it is being called, is it was my trade secret, Too many people want to assume the worst and think I am trying to find a way to screw them over. Not the case. I also realize I keep digging a deeper hole by posting as at a certain point it doesn't matter what I say because so many people have already made up their mind that I am a crook. I am not the guy that a lot of you seem to think, and my motives were way different than you are assuming.

 

[Mickey Qualls]

I never set out to screw anyone on any deal. I wasn't trying to be misleading. I just assumed it was ok to have trade secrets. KFC keeps its spices secret. That isn't meant smart a$$, it is just to make a point. Many items you buy have a "secret." Thousands of products out there would never tell you their process no matter how much you asked. I am still trying to figure out why this is blowing up. People assume veneer is cheap. It is not. It is cut from full boards and is the same wood. The core is as any core, solid and balanced. This wasn't a secret to be sneaky as many would instantly jump on me for. It was just a method I found that allowed me to make a good playing product at a great price. My intentions were always in the interest of the player. I knew the economy was rough and was trying to make it possible to have a pretty, good hitting stick for any income level. The only reason it was a secret, as it is being called, is it was my trade secret, Too many people want to assume the worst and think I am trying to find a way to screw them over. Not the case. I also realize I keep digging a deeper hole by posting as at a certain point it doesn't matter what I say because so many people have already made up their mind that I am a crook. I am not the guy that a lot of you seem to think, and my motives were way different than you are assuming.

I'm fine with trade secrets...

"What's in your glue that keeps your cues together ?"

"What's your trick for lining up inlays on the joint collars ?"

"How do you get your cork wraps to look so nice ?"

Those are trade secrets...

Putting a sleeve of an 'exotic wood' over an inexpensive maple core doesn't come across like a "trade secret". It comes across more like deceit.

I bid on (and won) an auction that advertised a "simple and beautiful (exotic wood) cue with an (exotic wood) butt". Nowhere does it state that the exotic wood is actually a sleeve over a maple core.

Call it a "trade secret", call it whatever you want. Writing your ads/auctions in such a way that this detail isn't disclosed seems... well... deceitful.

To put it another way, you're advertising a special on shots of vodka. When I order a shot, you pour it out of a bottle of Grey Goose. But there's really Zemkoff in the bottle. You're giving me the perception that I'm drinking Grey Goose, when I'm really drinking the cheap stuff.

Based on your logic, it's not really deceit because I'm not paying much for the shots in the first place. In fact, I'm paying the price I would pay for the cheap stuff, so what's the difference ?

Mickey <--- Tell me what I'm really drinkin', then I'll decide if I still want the special...

 

[prulhiere cues]

Mickey, you sort of misunderstood my last post. I wasn't saying I am right or wrong. I was just giving you my line of thought. I didn't attempt to deceive anyone even if that is how it was taken. Your point is sound and i am not arguing it. I understand what you mean. That doesn't change the fact that I had good intentions. Not everyone is trying to find a way to screw people. I believe there is not a person on here that hasn't done something in their life that they thought was okay until it was pointed out and they got a chance to re-evaluate it.

 

[Mickey Qualls]

Mickey, you sort of misunderstood my last post. I wasn't saying I am right or wrong. I was just giving you my line of thought. I didn't attempt to deceive anyone even if that is how it was taken. Your point is sound and i am not arguing it. I understand what you mean. That doesn't change the fact that I had good intentions. Not everyone is trying to find a way to screw people. I believe there is not a person on here that hasn't done something in their life that they thought was okay until it was pointed out and they got a chance to re-evaluate it.

Fair enough. I can respect that. Especially the bold part.

So, with the chance to re-evaluate what you do with maple cores and exotic wood sleeves, where do you go from here ??

What are your thoughts on disclosing that information in your future sales ??

Mickey <--- Interested to hear the answer...

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Well written, and very much to the point I have tried to make numerous times. Full disclosure, using a reason to the customer that explains how they can get this look at a fraction of the price, will not always result in a no sale.

This is one of the reasons I chose to purchase one of his cues...

I picked up one of his cue on the 'bay a few months ago.

There were pretty good reviews about his cues. If you do a search, you'll find a decent amount of 'endorsements' and the like (save for the most recent couple of threads). "And for the price, he's the best deal around" type of testimony. Anyone that has one of his cues swears by "the hit", and that the shafts "seem to have a low deflection quality to them", etc...

And while I realize the 'hit' is subjective, I figured it might be worth a small investment to find out more about this guy's cues. In one thread, I remember reading that he was still in the early stages of cuemaking. He wanted to bring a well-built cue to a player at a reasonable price. While the finish on many of his cues wasn't 'perfect', or there might be some buff marks and the like, it was still (as is said on AZB soooooo many times), "a monster cue for the price"

To me (and it seems others), the pricing reflected that. The only thing I could make an analogy to would be a 'factory second' train of thought. The cue may not be perfect visually, but still has the same quality as a higher end cue.

And with multiple glowing endorsements here (save for one or two disgruntled customers), I figured I'd keep an eye on this guy's auctions for a bar beater that had a nice hit to it.

I ended up catching one of his auctions for a wrapless at around $110.

It arrived a few days later. I opened it up , and yeah, it had a few 'blemishes' and 'scuff marks' and the like, but overall it was a decent looking cue. Hey, for a hair under $110, for a cue from an unknown...

Hit a few balls with it, and honestly didn't like "the hit". Went down and used it quite a few more times, but just wasn't my cup o' tea.
But as I said before, the "hit" is subjective. So I figured I'd use it for a break cue, or leave it in the rack for when company comes over, or even take it down to the poolhall and see if I could break even (or even MAKE money on it). :grin:

Then I read these threads, and the first thing I did was hustle downstairs to see if there was indeed a seam somewhere on it...

Yep... Seams... :frown:

Wrapping the 'exotic woods' around a maple core isn't what I expected. That's not what the auction led me to believe. I was given the impression that these 'exotic woods' were the actual woods that the cue would be constructed of. Not a 'wrap job'.
Even now, looking back at the original listing, the first line in the auction is "This is a simple and beautiful (exotic wood) cue with an (exotic wood) butt. Nowhere does it state that the exotic wood is wrapped around a maple core.

Truth be told, even if the 'wrap' had been disclosed in the auction, I might have still purchased a cue, based on the reviews of "the hit".

A while back, I found a Fury DL series on the 'bay. Fury Cues have been said to have a nice hit, and I agree. I also knew before I chose to bid that I was getting an 'overlay' cue.
'Overlay'. A fancy term for "decal". Which was disclosed in the auction.

While I didn't expect absolute perfection when I bid on that Prulhiere cue, I also didn't expect the outer wood to be 'wrapped' around a maple core. I would have preferred to know that I was purchasing (insert exotic wood here) wrapped around a maple core "to give it that $$$$ look at a fraction of the price", or any other sales pitch that told me exactly what I was getting into.

I can't, in good conscience, sell this cue to anyone without disclosing the 'wrap' technique.

And I can't see how someone (specifically the cuemaker) could sell it without disclosing this technique.

Mickey <---Didn't expect a Balabushka, but didn't expect a 'decal' cue, either...

 

[prulhiere cues]

Mickey, I will definitely be more open with my information for multiple reasons. Not least of all, I do not want to go through this kind of thing again. I never meant to mislead anyone, and I want to avoid that as well.

 

[texasguy4]

Mickey, I will definitely be more open with my information for multiple reasons. Not least of all, I do not want to go through this kind of thing again. I never meant to mislead anyone, and I want to avoid that as well.

mean while back at the ranch.....Texasguy4 sits my the mailbox waiting for his long lost money to return. (I take Paypal)

 

[Hired Guns]

Mickey, I will definitely be more open with my information for multiple reasons. Not least of all, I do not want to go through this kind of thing again. I never meant to mislead anyone, and I want to avoid that as well.

This is great for any future customers you might have but this whole experience has left a bad taste in my mouth as I'm still out my money.

I just don't understand why it took all this for Mr Pruhliere to finally tell the truth and come clean.

 

[texasguy4]

Ok.... I have sit back and watched this sh%@ long enough.

Hired Gun, I agree, from what I see from your pictures you have a legitimate complaint
about the quality of work, but I also see Prulhiere offered to make it right, and for what ever
reason, you don’t want to give him the chance. Like I said in an early post, I had to send
a cue back to Mr. Black 3 times before he got it right, and he’s a Hall of Fame cue maker.
If your intentions truly were to blackmail him. I don’t blame him for not giving you a refund.

Between Hired Gun, myself, and the rest of the wolves, I think the damage is done.
At this point I'm almost sorry I started this thread......

For anyone thinking about ordering a cue from Prulhier, all I would say is be careful about paying the
full price upfront. Most makers that I have dealt with want half down and half on delivery. I don’t have a problem with him using veneers, but I do think he should state upfront, how he builds cues.

I know this sounds hypocritical, but I feel that my problem is totally different. I never received
a cue AND Brian, after several conversations, did agree to refund my money. My problem
is that I feel that 6 months is plenty of time for him to come up with the refund.

 

[prewarhero]

All I got to say, after reading most of this thread is jeez I am really sorry that many people got "duped" into buying these cues. It is totally BS to sell a cue and think it is ok to not disclose that the exotic would you claim it to be made from is just an outer veneer over maple. GET REAL!!!!

Ever hear of the difference between solid gold and gold plated? Imagine if you bought something you thought was solid gold only to find it was only plated?
No excuse, no defense. Plain and simple people, were manipulated. Price of admission is irrelevant.

Sorry Brian, I saw your posts and auctions and I was really rooting for you too. Find a way to fix this so it is just a faint memory in a long career as a cue-maker.

 

[ExclusiveTSX]

This is really a shame for all parties involved. The buyers clearly did not recieve the product they believed they were buying, and not in the agreed upon time frame either. The cue maker should have given the choice of a refund or replacement as soon as the complaint was made and either choice should have been issued in a timely manner. In a way I feel bad for the cue maker because this thread did real damage to his reputation, however it is really his own fault for letting these issues go on for this length of time. At this point why don't you just issue refunds to these guys and let them keep the cues? Make it right and try to save whats left of your reputation. It's clear that you care to some degree because you keep responding and it seems like you are somewhat genuine. At the end of the day the customer is king and the customers were not happy, I think we all know what you should do to make this right. Good luck to everyone involved in solving this mess.

 

[KJ Cues]

This is really a shame for all parties involved. The buyers clearly did not recieve the product they believed they were buying, and not in the agreed upon time frame either. The cue maker should have given the choice of a refund or replacement as soon as the complaint was made and either choice should have been issued in a timely manner. In a way I feel bad for the cue maker because this thread did real damage to his reputation, however it is really his own fault for letting these issues go on for this length of time. At this point why don't you just issue refunds to these guys and let them keep the cues? Make it right and try to save whats left of your reputation. It's clear that you care to some degree because you keep responding and it seems like you are somewhat genuine. At the end of the day the customer is king and the customers were not happy, I think we all know what you should do to make this right. Good luck to everyone involved in solving this mess.

Parts of this post verge on the ridiculous.

"The buyers clearly did not recieve the product they believed they were buying."

I'm curious to know what they believed they were buying (or expected) for under $200.
If you're going to spend cheap, you're going to get cheap. Is this a shock to anyone???
They got what they paid for.

"At this point why don't you just issue refunds to these guys and let them keep the cues?"

Please tell me that you know cue-makers that build cues for the sole purpose of giving them away.
These cues didn't build themselves. Someone put some effort into them. That person should be compensated.
Should the buyer now get the cue for free because it wasn't what he expected?? Seriously?

The one thing that these buyers have in common is that they all now want to claim to be the victim.
If they want to feel like victims, more power to them. They are victims of their own ignorance.
They have no idea of how to buy a cue. If it's the cheapest they can get then that's the cue for them.
Did anyone ask any questions before buying the cues? Did anyone ask about a money-back guarantee?
Did anyone ask in advance how the cues were built? Did they expect a Black Boar for the price of a Players?
What on earth did you expect???

If there is any blame here, it doesn't reside solely with the builder. The buyer shares equal blame.
Consider it a lesson learned and move on. That applies to both parties.

KJ

 

[ExclusiveTSX]

Parts of this post verge on the ridiculous.

"The buyers clearly did not recieve the product they believed they were buying."

I'm curious to know what they believed they were buying (or expected) for under $200.
If you're going to spend cheap, you're going to get cheap. Is this a shock to anyone???
They got what they paid for.

"At this point why don't you just issue refunds to these guys and let them keep the cues?"

Please tell me that you know cue-makers that build cues for the sole purpose of giving them away.
These cues didn't build themselves. Someone put some effort into them. That person should be compensated.
Should the buyer now get the cue for free because it wasn't what he expected?? Seriously?

The one thing that these buyers have in common is that they all now want to claim to be the victim.
If they want to feel like victims, more power to them. They are victims of their own ignorance.
They have no idea of how to buy a cue. If it's the cheapest they can get then that's the cue for them.
Did anyone ask any questions before buying the cues? Did anyone ask about a money-back guarantee?
Did anyone ask in advance how the cues were built? Did they expect a Black Boar for the price of a Players?
What on earth did you expect???

If there is any blame here, it doesn't reside solely with the builder. The buyer shares equal blame.
Consider it a lesson learned and move on. That applies to both parties.

KJ

It's funny how I can't even post my opinion without being attacked. We are all adults here, I hope, a simple I disagree would have sufficed. I was mearly stating that if someone tells you that you are buying a cocobolo cue for example, when it arrives you would hope to have just that; not a slight amount of cocobolo wrapped around a cheaper core. As far as letting them keep the cues, at this point that is what I suggested to help further compensate for the length of time this issue has gone on for. I do agree that I would be wary of buying a custom for such a low price point, so I don't completely disagree with what you've said. I would just like to see this resolved well for all parties so the customers can have a solution they are content with, and hopefully the builder can continue to build entry level cues under a new level of disclosure.

 

[KJ Cues]

"It's funny how I can't even post my opinion without being attacked. We are all adults here,"

No one attacked you or anyone else for that matter.
You offered your opinion and I replied to it.
Your opinion is that these buyers should be given the cues for free.
To me anyway, that verges on the ridiculous.
As for being adults, adults are responsible for their own actions and the decisions they make.
They wanted cheap, they got cheap.

 

[poolfool1957]

I picked up one of these cues for about $90.00 used. It too has the veneer wrap and a lot of finish flaws. Here is the deal with mine.
It has the cork wrap just like the first McD I bought 35 years ago. The wood combination (veneer) looks very nice. I slapped an original Z shaft on it.....the collar diameters are not even close. Since I'm waiting for my new shooter I figured I'd give it a try. The marraige of the Prulhiere and the Predator shaft was damn near made in heaven!
The cue plays lights out. I have 100% confidence in any shot I try with it.
It's too bad the cues were not described more accurately when this cuemaker was selling them here. I doubt anyone would have pitched too much of a ***** about paying $120.00 - $150.00 for a decent player with a unique look had they known beforehand that the veneers were used.
I'm not defending his actions.....just saying that for the money I spent, I have one fine playing cue (with the acknowledgement that the Z shaft contributes to the strong play that it offers).
I would definitely recommend that anyone who wants to get by cheapie-cheap pick one up.....you could do a lot worse.

 

[texasguy4]

Parts of this post verge on the ridiculous.

"The buyers clearly did not recieve the product they believed they were buying."

I'm curious to know what they believed they were buying (or expected) for under $200.
If you're going to spend cheap, you're going to get cheap. Is this a shock to anyone???
They got what they paid for.

"At this point why don't you just issue refunds to these guys and let them keep the cues?"

Please tell me that you know cue-makers that build cues for the sole purpose of giving them away.
These cues didn't build themselves. Someone put some effort into them. That person should be compensated.
Should the buyer now get the cue for free because it wasn't what he expected?? Seriously?

The one thing that these buyers have in common is that they all now want to claim to be the victim.
If they want to feel like victims, more power to them. They are victims of their own ignorance.
They have no idea of how to buy a cue. If it's the cheapest they can get then that's the cue for them.
Did anyone ask any questions before buying the cues? Did anyone ask about a money-back guarantee?
Did anyone ask in advance how the cues were built? Did they expect a Black Boar for the price of a Players?
What on earth did you expect???

If there is any blame here, it doesn't reside solely with the builder. The buyer shares equal blame.
Consider it a lesson learned and move on. That applies to both parties.

KJ

KJ, two problems with your responce...
1. I paid well over $200.00, (almost $500.00) but even so, I knew I wasn't getting a "top shelf" cue
2. I never recieved a cue.

For those that have been following this thread, I have been in contact with Brian and he assures me I will get my money back.
I offered to take equal responsibility for this whole fiasco and just refund half my money, but he did acknowledged he
“screwed up” and wanted to refund all of the money. At least it appears he wants to make it right.