Question about McDermott cues with sharp points and veneers. Are they more desirable?

I think a lot of very well known cuemakers wouild disagree that any $12/hr helper could put together a decent playing cue. Yes, imo, someone who uses cnc can be just as skilled as non-cnc. Bill Stroud is one cuemaker who did it both ways. The "cue snob" comment comes from your comment that cnc points are not "real points". Simply ridiculous. Your last sentence implies that you didn't read my earlier posts. I said it isn't done (sharpening rounded points}...period. I'm not a cuemaker...but I've hung around a lot of them, watching how they built cues...with both kinds of points.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

MikieG said:
Firstly, how did you derive snob from my post? I simply responded with an experienced and educated response to the OP'S question.
Yes, cues are glued up by hands. What skill is required to apply glue and plug parts together? Maybe care taken to index ring checks etc. But that's it. $12 an hour employee. Far from a cue maker.
You refer to the line being drawn with skills and yet you seem to think that cnc is equal in skill to hand made points? This is where experience (as in I have made many a cue with real points, how many cues you made with cnc points?) is obvious.
I'd love to hear how you "sharpen" points. I am up for learning new things.
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caff3in3 said:
It was meant more as a joke, Im saying Justin's ongoing behavior seems odd enough I wouldn't be shocked if we at some point find out he was doing research for a PhD.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
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That's an I Teresa in tale that I really had not thought of. For quite some time now I thought that with the threads / questions he repeatedly asks he had to be one of two things : One he was just some type of troll getting off by the responses we give him OR he was a little....... well I'll let yall insert whatever word you feel best - and while the questions seem outrageous vast majority of the time that he was in fact being serious with them as he knew no better. Personally I am still on the fence with either, but I don't tale anything he says seriously and most times they are at least good for a laugh or two.
 
BmoreMoney said:
That's an I Teresa in tale that I really had not thought of. For quite some time now I thought that with the threads / questions he repeatedly asks he had to be one of two things : One he was just some type of troll getting off by the responses we give him OR he was a little....... well I'll let yall insert whatever word you feel best - and while the questions seem outrageous vast majority of the time that he was in fact being serious with them as he knew no better. Personally I am still on the fence with either, but I don't tale anything he says seriously and most times they are at least good for a laugh or two.
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He revealed on his twitter that it was all trolling for a social experiment.
 
Scott Lee said:
I think a lot of very well known cuemakers wouild disagree that any $12/hr helper could put together a decent playing cue. Yes, imo, someone who uses cnc can be just as skilled as non-cnc. Bill Stroud is one cuemaker who did it both ways. The "cue snob" comment comes from your comment that cnc points are not "real points". Simply ridiculous. Your last sentence implies that you didn't read my earlier posts. I said it isn't done (sharpening rounded points}...period. I'm not a cuemaker...but I've hung around a lot of them, watching how they built cues...with both kinds of points.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Okay, well if it is just as difficult to make cue cue using rounded points, instead of sharp pointed points, then why not make them the nicer more desirable way (which is sharp )? Are there many players and collectors that actually prefer rounded off points instead of sharp points? I know that the RUNDE SCHON cues (with sharp points) are by far the most desirable of all the SCHON cues that were ever made. They just look so much better. Have you ever seen a Richard black cue with rounded CNC points? I am betting that you have not, and that they do not exist . All of the greatest cue makers in history used sharp points with sharp veneers (Balabushka for example). Why use CNC points if they are just as difficult to make?
 
justinb386 said:
Okay, well if it is just as difficult to make cue cue using rounded points, instead of sharp pointed points, then why not make them the nicer more desirable way (which is sharp )? Are there many players and collectors that actually prefer rounded off points instead of sharp points? I know that the RUNDE SCHON cues (with sharp points) are by far the most desirable of all the SCHON cues that were ever made. They just look so much better. Have you ever seen a Richard black cue with rounded CNC points? I am betting that you have not, and that they do not exist . All of the greatest cue makers in history used sharp points with sharp veneers (Balabushka for example). Why use CNC points if they are just as difficult to make?
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I don't want to negate your point, but....

Ernie Gutierrez doesn't do spliced forearm points. Never really did the half-splice/V-splice forearm (just a couple of them, according to him), unless it was a conversion (Though he did splice together wood in some cues to get sharp features.)

Jerry McWorter's older cues (with spliced, sharp 6 points) aren't as desirable as his modern, non-pointed cues.

Ray Schuler (one of the top engineering cuemakers) didn't do sharp forearm points, and didn't see the need for them in his cuemaking, so he stuck with flat bottom, routed inlay "points."

Runde-era Schon cues are desirable due to the name. My Runde-era Schon has sharp points, but an implex joint. I guarantee this cue is not a better cue than later-year Schon cues. Maybe other Runde-era Schon cues are desirable due to the points, but I think it's Bob's name that makes them so.

I personally like sharp points for looks, but I also like decorative round points if they still look nice.
 
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Maybe JustinB, you need another answer to your question.
justinb386 said:
I am curious about McDermott cues that have sharp points and veneers.

Is this something you see very often on McDermott cues?
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I see sharp points and veneers on McDermott Cues every week.

If you see a sharp pointed Mcdermott (with veneers for example), does that meant that it is an older vintage Mcdermott,
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In my case, yes.

or could it have possibly been custom ordered to have sharp points and veneers?
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In my case, no.



I am just curious if a sharp pointed Mcdermott (with sharp points and veneers) makes it more valuable and desirable?
.
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The sharp points were not part of my justification for buying my McDermott Cues.

Freddie <~~~ sharp as a bowling ball
 
Scott Lee

So because you "hung around" a guy who made cues, you feel your ideas are somehow superior to those of a guy who actually makes cues?
Let me educate you a bit more. Points are the byproduct of a very strong joint designed to join a heavier wood to a more usable wood for shaft strength.
The glue joint surface of a full splice is very large hence offering strength. A V bottom point has the same surface therefore strengthening a maple forearm also contributing to the volumetric specific gravity of the cue. This all plays a part in balance, hit and feel. CNC flat bottom points are inlays generally .050 below the surface that are cosmetic only. They add absolutely no strength and hit quality what so ever.
That said, there are guys doing flat bottom points and making a fortune at it. More money than I ever did with my v bottom points. If aesthetics are all you care about then that's great for you. No body is hating on you. But these are the cold hard facts about the 4 point types as pertaining to the OP'S question.
And yes, if you can brush on epoxy and screw parts together, you too can assemble a cue. I never said you can machine the parts or even precisely fit the hand laid points and Veneers. Just assemble. This is why production mfg can have so many employees yet only maybe 1 or 2 could take raw boards into the shop and emerge with a finished cue all by therself. Which in my opinion is the definition of a cue maker. Not a guy that has computer controlled machinery cutting and fitting parts or a guy that goes to the Prather catalog, orders assemblies, glues em up (Remember, gluing is easy, every kindergartener can do it) then tells the world, "look at me I'm a cuemaker, look what I made!".
If your definition is that loose, then great. Your call. But don't go hating on someone who sees this a bit different than you.
 
MikieG said:
So because you "hung around" a guy who made cues, you feel your ideas are somehow superior to those of a guy who actually makes cues?
Let me educate you a bit more. Points are the byproduct of a very strong joint designed to join a heavier wood to a more usable wood for shaft strength.
The glue joint surface of a full splice is very large hence offering strength. A V bottom point has the same surface therefore strengthening a maple forearm also contributing to the volumetric specific gravity of the cue. This all plays a part in balance, hit and feel. CNC flat bottom points are inlays generally .050 below the surface that are cosmetic only. They add absolutely no strength and hit quality what so ever.
That said, there are guys doing flat bottom points and making a fortune at it. More money than I ever did with my v bottom points. If aesthetics are all you care about then that's great for you. No body is hating on you. But these are the cold hard facts about the 4 point types as pertaining to the OP'S question.
And yes, if you can brush on epoxy and screw parts together, you too can assemble a cue. I never said you can machine the parts or even precisely fit the hand laid points and Veneers. Just assemble. This is why production mfg can have so many employees yet only maybe 1 or 2 could take raw boards into the shop and emerge with a finished cue all by therself. Which in my opinion is the definition of a cue maker. Not a guy that has computer controlled machinery cutting and fitting parts or a guy that goes to the Prather catalog, orders assemblies, glues em up (Remember, gluing is easy, every kindergartener can do it) then tells the world, "look at me I'm a cuemaker, look what I made!".
If your definition is that loose, then great. Your call. But don't go hating on someone who sees this a bit different than you.
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What is the name of the cues you make ???
 
Kris_b1104 said:
He revealed on his twitter that it was all trolling for a social experiment.
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So do we think this is just a cover story trying to not look like a J/ A or do we think it's legit? And if legit, any idea what specifically this " study " was to be about?
 
Wow...you're nuts buddy. I never "hated" on anybody or anything in this thread. My cuemakers were Cognoscenti and Samsara...very high end custom makers. I'm gonna guess that trumps your own personal experience as an unknown cuemaker. I never said anything about being superior, or having superior ideas. My entire point was that sharp points or any other kind of points can be beautiful and functional on any cue. One man's trash is another man's treasure. If you want to believe that you make as good of cues as these two companies, that's your own delusion. You can take your "cold hard facts", which nobody asked for, and which make no difference in the OP's original question about sharp points vs other points, and put it where it belongs... Stop putting words in my mouth, and read your own posts before you post them, for relevance to the original topic. :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

MikieG said:
So because you "hung around" a guy who made cues, you feel your ideas are somehow superior to those of a guy who actually makes cues?
Let me educate you a bit more. Points are the byproduct of a very strong joint designed to join a heavier wood to a more usable wood for shaft strength.
The glue joint surface of a full splice is very large hence offering strength. A V bottom point has the same surface therefore strengthening a maple forearm also contributing to the volumetric specific gravity of the cue. This all plays a part in balance, hit and feel. CNC flat bottom points are inlays generally .050 below the surface that are cosmetic only. They add absolutely no strength and hit quality what so ever.
That said, there are guys doing flat bottom points and making a fortune at it. More money than I ever did with my v bottom points. If aesthetics are all you care about then that's great for you. No body is hating on you. But these are the cold hard facts about the 4 point types as pertaining to the OP'S question.
And yes, if you can brush on epoxy and screw parts together, you too can assemble a cue. I never said you can machine the parts or even precisely fit the hand laid points and Veneers. Just assemble. This is why production mfg can have so many employees yet only maybe 1 or 2 could take raw boards into the shop and emerge with a finished cue all by therself. Which in my opinion is the definition of a cue maker. Not a guy that has computer controlled machinery cutting and fitting parts or a guy that goes to the Prather catalog, orders assemblies, glues em up (Remember, gluing is easy, every kindergartener can do it) then tells the world, "look at me I'm a cuemaker, look what I made!".
If your definition is that loose, then great. Your call. But don't go hating on someone who sees this a bit different than you.
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Scott Lee

I responded to your abrasive post to my description of point designs and why they are or are not desirable. Which are all facts. I never said anything about the quality of my cues or the lack of on anyone else's. I have noticed a couple things here, you have 14K posts! I wonder how many ever actually added anything positive to the threads you comment on? Looking at your signature "title" I can see where your ego comes from.
So you throw a couple names of respected cue makers out there and think that validates your opinion on whether cnc points are as functional as true v bottom points? Seriously?
My son is in med school. Maybe I should be giving medical advise?
So to wrap this up, there is a MAJOR difference between the point types. Some actually serve a purpose some are purely for looks. Some are finely hand crafted, some are thin veneers put in by machines. Some are even decals under the finish.
To make 75 cues a day, you must go to cnc for speed saving money by not needing to pay for a skilled craftsman to fit every veneer and point. There will never be a machine on the planet that can produce sharp veneered points with perfect glue lines and near invisible miters. If there were, flat bottom points would be dead over night.
Thank you for your time and opinion.
Weird thing, I had a cousin named Scott Lee Carder. He was a real piece of work. Nasty fellow he was. September of 09 he hung himself with an extension cord. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!
This is such a weird coincidence.
 
MikieG said:
I responded to your abrasive post to my description of point designs and why they are or are not desirable. Which are all facts. I never said anything about the quality of my cues or the lack of on anyone else's. I have noticed a couple things here, you have 14K posts! I wonder how many ever actually added anything positive to the threads you comment on? Looking at your signature "title" I can see where your ego comes from.
So you throw a couple names of respected cue makers out there and think that validates your opinion on whether cnc points are as functional as true v bottom points? Seriously?
My son is in med school. Maybe I should be giving medical advise?
So to wrap this up, there is a MAJOR difference between the point types. Some actually serve a purpose some are purely for looks. Some are finely hand crafted, some are thin veneers put in by machines. Some are even decals under the finish.
To make 75 cues a day, you must go to cnc for speed saving money by not needing to pay for a skilled craftsman to fit every veneer and point. There will never be a machine on the planet that can produce sharp veneered points with perfect glue lines and near invisible miters. If there were, flat bottom points would be dead over night.
Thank you for your time and opinion.
Weird thing, I had a cousin named Scott Lee Carder. He was a real piece of work. Nasty fellow he was. September of 09 he hung himself with an extension cord. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!
This is such a weird coincidence.
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Scott Lee,in the pool world and this forum,is an acclaimed instructor who's been around enough to where his opinion is valued. Who are YOU,where have YOU been,and what have YOU done ???
 
justinb386 said:
I am curious about McDermott cues that have sharp points and veneers.

Is this something you see very often on McDermott cues?

If you see a sharp pointed Mcdermott (with veneers for example), does that meant that it is an older vintage Mcdermott, or could it have possibly been custom ordered to have sharp points and veneers?

In my experience, they have not had really sharp points in them (most of the ones that I have seen, other then the old C and D series from the 80's).

Is this something that you can ask McDermott to do if custom ordering a McDermott?

Will they make the points and veneers very sharp (on a custom order)?

I am just curious if a sharp pointed Mcdermott (with sharp points and veneers) makes it more valuable and desirable?

Thanks for any thoughts or info about this.
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A lot of people are messing with you with their replies. To answer your question you could probably custom order a sharp pointed McDermott for more money but you would be unlikely to be able to sell the cue for what you paid for it. McDermott is a production cue and you would be paying custom price for a production cue.

If it was me - speaking only for myself - I'd find a custom cue with sharp points. I'd check to make sure the points are even. I'd hit some balls with the cue. I would then buy the cue if it was priced reasonably and I liked the way it hit and I'd stop worrying about cues. I would just play with that cue.

I own two playing cues. An old Schon SL-5 which I would sell but I refuse to sell it online because I don't want some drama queen to buy it stress out over some imperfection in a 25 year old cue. The other which I play with is a Woodworth. I have no intention of selling the Woodworth even if I could get ten times what I paid for it and I have no intention of buying another cue. I'm also not promoting Woodworth cues because they rest of them could play like crap for all I know - although I suspect they play good based upon the one I own.

That's just me.
 
alstl said:
A lot of people are messing with you with their replies. To answer your question you could probably custom order a sharp pointed McDermott for more money but you would be unlikely to be able to sell the cue for what you paid for it. McDermott is a production cue and you would be paying custom price for a production cue.

If it was me - speaking only for myself - I'd find a custom cue with sharp points. I'd check to make sure the points are even. I'd hit some balls with the cue. I would then buy the cue if it was priced reasonably and I liked the way it hit and I'd stop worrying about cues. I would just play with that cue.

I own two playing cues. An old Schon SL-5 which I would sell but I refuse to sell it online because I don't want some drama queen to buy it stress out over some imperfection in a 25 year old cue. The other which I play with is a Woodworth. I have no intention of selling the Woodworth even if I could get ten times what I paid for it and I have no intention of buying another cue. I'm also not promoting Woodworth cues because they rest of them could play like crap for all I know - although I suspect they play good based upon the one I own.

That's just me.
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So are they more desirable?
 
2two balls

Let's review here. A forum member posted an honest question and was being flamed. I entered the first post that gave any useful info, (after 3 pages!) With any positive contributions. My post was met by an insulting post and being called a snob by someone who is supposed to be above us mortal men. Wow. I don't even get that from pros and real champions. Makes me wonder how his business can survive with this ego?
Reminds me of a guy I played 25 years ago. Think his name was Burt Kinnister. He was supposed to be some great teacher. Turned out he was a great self promoter riding on his ego and the fact Beta males were easily fooled into following him. Never knew anyone who bought his instruction.
Moral of the story? Don't interject if you have nothing positive to add. Even if you see yourself as a self proclaimed God. You are not. You have no right to talk down to anybody. It's a sign of insecurity.
 
MikieG said:
Let's review here. A forum member posted an honest question and was being flamed. I entered the first post that gave any useful info, (after 3 pages!) With any positive contributions. My post was met by an insulting post and being called a snob by someone who is supposed to be above us mortal men. Wow. I don't even get that from pros and real champions. Makes me wonder how his business can survive with this ego?
Reminds me of a guy I played 25 years ago. Think his name was Burt Kinnister. He was supposed to be some great teacher. Turned out he was a great self promoter riding on his ego and the fact Beta males were easily fooled into following him. Never knew anyone who bought his instruction.
Moral of the story? Don't interject if you have nothing positive to add. Even if you see yourself as a self proclaimed God. You are not. You have no right to talk down to anybody. It's a sign of insecurity.
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That's cute.
 
How long does it take to go from a CNC rounded point to a sharp point and what would it take?

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