Question/advice about turning pro.
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8ballEinstein said:
I agree. I have been playing in so many leagues lately that it was starting to feel like a chore instead of fun.
Actually the job I have now started as a hobby (programming) and turned into a way to make money. Luckily I can just leave the computer and go to the pool hall. It would be very hard to separate work from fun being on the road all the time having to perform at a high level. I suppose that is assuming pool is your fun/entertainment/way to blow off steam.
It is something to consider.
One of the women on the WPBA tour started playing again after the 20 years to raise her kids. She is over 40. I won't give her name...you know how women are about age. I believe there might be 1 or 2 more of them on the WPBA tour either now or in the past. But you would be hard pressed to find any top pro men that started after the were 25. Johnnyt
Since the OP has yet to come back to comment, I have the feeling this is actually a troll. But still it is a good question in just theory. I think Tom the water skier, hit it on the head. Some one who only plays a few times a month, does not seem to have the obsessive desire to reach the "Elite" level in any sport.
You need to be obsessed, you need to eat, drink and sleep pool and I mean this before you make the decision to change your whole life. This is not like, waking up one day and saying, okay, I think I'll try my hand at banking. It requires talent, drive and a strong competitive mentality. Something, I do not think anyone has mentioned. I think all great players have an innate ability to compete, stay focused and play their best game under extreme pressure.
Blackjack, please do not misunderstand, my earlier post, I do no think 40 is too old to decided to go pro, but to start from scratch with no skills or experience, I do think it is near impossible.
I also agree that the poster's personal position needs to be considered. If he is unencumbered with an endless trust fund, then hell, go for it! But if others depend on his income, like a spouse and/or children and his job is his sole income. Then I feel it would be highly irresponsible of him to consider such a risky endeavor.
You need to be obsessed, you need to eat, drink and sleep pool and I mean this before you make the decision to change your whole life. This is not like, waking up one day and saying, okay, I think I'll try my hand at banking. It requires talent, drive and a strong competitive mentality. Something, I do not think anyone has mentioned. I think all great players have an innate ability to compete, stay focused and play their best game under extreme pressure.
Blackjack, please do not misunderstand, my earlier post, I do no think 40 is too old to decided to go pro, but to start from scratch with no skills or experience, I do think it is near impossible.
I also agree that the poster's personal position needs to be considered. If he is unencumbered with an endless trust fund, then hell, go for it! But if others depend on his income, like a spouse and/or children and his job is his sole income. Then I feel it would be highly irresponsible of him to consider such a risky endeavor.
8ballEinstein said:
Good advice here... I know a young man, non pro, but a AAA ranked player. His goal is just that...to enter the big tournaments. I think his head is screwed on straight because he doesn't want to do this as a living.
He works, invests wisely, is building a nice portfolio. He wishes to retire early, then go play the top guns while not having the money pressure.
I Plan On Leaving The House.... Soon.... Someday..... MAYBE
Originally Posted by cuechick
Since the OP has yet to come back to comment, I have the feeling this is actually a troll.
LOL, maybe...it's only been 24 hours (and on a weekend) but I looked up all his previous posts and he seems to be sincere.
Doug
( maybe he has a life and actually leaves the house and PLAYS pool.... or sumpin )
Originally Posted by cuechick
Since the OP has yet to come back to comment, I have the feeling this is actually a troll.
Tom M said:
LOL, maybe...it's only been 24 hours (and on a weekend) but I looked up all his previous posts and he seems to be sincere.
Doug
( maybe he has a life and actually leaves the house and PLAYS pool.... or sumpin )
Smorgass Bored said:( maybe he has a life and actually leaves the house and PLAYS pool.... or sumpin )
So what are you trying to say? That some people on here perhaps play pool in reallife too????? How do they do that? I have tried it once, but those sticks were hard to control, and I couldn't even hit the white ball. But I liked the colours of the balls, so I just signed up on this forum. Nice to meet people with same interests
Back to subject:
I would recommend you to first buy a table, and spend 25 hours a week on serious practise (drills, ghost, straightpool). Compete in every tournament you can, and keep your job.
After 6 months - 1 year with a lot of practise and tournaments, you will probably know if it is a good idea for you to sacrifise your job and try to do this for a living.
I hope it is for you, nothing would motivate me more than a 40-year old poolplayer turning pro!
Anyone that is 40 years old and an avg. player should NOT be thinking of becoming a pro. Perhaps someone that was 40 or older may have gone pro and been successful but this a rarity at best. Many of the pro's have one thing in common - natural ability-. Without that and many hours of practice every day and playing in tournaments and winning prior to turning pro you just aren't going to make it.
Besides, at 40 certain things start to dawn on you. One of the most important and impactful is the general fact that this it IT. Whatever you are doing for a living at 40 and whatever level you are doing it is probably what you are going to be doing till you retire. For some people this is a big moment of time in their lives which can be a good thing and could be a bad thing. Career, family, and life in general is going to continue in the same or similar direction that you find yourself in at 40 years old. there is nothing particularily wrong or right when this moment comes but it is a bright ray of sun shining into and onto your life. Some people find the realizations hard to take and others find it a delight to see. Whatever you do at this point do not make any instant dramatic changes that you may live to regret. Life is what life is and it is very hard to change things. Also, be careful what you want to change. Or better said - be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
Soooooo - to the original poster, think things our carefully prior to making and changes that could impact your income, standard of living, savings, and retirement plans. Plan plan plan before you take any type of leap at this age. Hey, if you want a boat, sports car, motorcycle. or other life's goodies that you have been denying yourself just go ahead an buy it. But don't change what you are doing fto make a decent living to become something that you wish you could be. could you become a pro - probably - but are you willing to put in the time and money to get there? If you really really evaluate what you are saying the answer would probably be no. But if the answer is yes. Try this for six months. Practice 4 hours everyday through the week and 6 hours on Sat. & Sun. Play in local tournament every chane you get. Hire a very good instructor for one day per week. Play the best of the best in your local pools halls. If you do this for months and you see VAST improvement along with a realistic view of actually making some money then maybe, just maybe you can do it. We all have a passion for the game. But remember it is a game for most of us not a career.
Just incase this works out for you. At the end of 5 months I want you to come to my pool hall and play our hall's very good player. You will play 8 ball or 9 ball for $10.00 per ball, plus $5.00 for the money ball per game. This will be for a MINIMUM of 10 games. After that I say God Bless to you.
Hope this helps. Dawgie.
Besides, at 40 certain things start to dawn on you. One of the most important and impactful is the general fact that this it IT. Whatever you are doing for a living at 40 and whatever level you are doing it is probably what you are going to be doing till you retire. For some people this is a big moment of time in their lives which can be a good thing and could be a bad thing. Career, family, and life in general is going to continue in the same or similar direction that you find yourself in at 40 years old. there is nothing particularily wrong or right when this moment comes but it is a bright ray of sun shining into and onto your life. Some people find the realizations hard to take and others find it a delight to see. Whatever you do at this point do not make any instant dramatic changes that you may live to regret. Life is what life is and it is very hard to change things. Also, be careful what you want to change. Or better said - be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
Soooooo - to the original poster, think things our carefully prior to making and changes that could impact your income, standard of living, savings, and retirement plans. Plan plan plan before you take any type of leap at this age. Hey, if you want a boat, sports car, motorcycle. or other life's goodies that you have been denying yourself just go ahead an buy it. But don't change what you are doing fto make a decent living to become something that you wish you could be. could you become a pro - probably - but are you willing to put in the time and money to get there? If you really really evaluate what you are saying the answer would probably be no. But if the answer is yes. Try this for six months. Practice 4 hours everyday through the week and 6 hours on Sat. & Sun. Play in local tournament every chane you get. Hire a very good instructor for one day per week. Play the best of the best in your local pools halls. If you do this for months and you see VAST improvement along with a realistic view of actually making some money then maybe, just maybe you can do it. We all have a passion for the game. But remember it is a game for most of us not a career.
Just incase this works out for you. At the end of 5 months I want you to come to my pool hall and play our hall's very good player. You will play 8 ball or 9 ball for $10.00 per ball, plus $5.00 for the money ball per game. This will be for a MINIMUM of 10 games. After that I say God Bless to you.
Hope this helps. Dawgie.
the heart of the matter
Cuechick's post addresses what may lie at the heart of the matter. There are two types of people in the world, those that love to compete and thrive on it, and those that don't. The love of battle is more important than natural ability, more important than physical assets, more important than any other single thing. That I believe is inborn, you don't get to choose if you have it or not.
Most people will agree that at least in that one sport, an Olympic champion is the best in the world at that moment in time. History is full of Olympic champions who either had physical handicaps to overcome or came back from injuries that would have sidelined most people to not only compete but to win against the best, when it counted the most. Heart above all.
Then being driven, obsessed, is probably next on the list of assets you need to beat the best. Do you have to push yourself to practice? Odds are much longer of you being successful. Wake and go to sleep thinking about pool? Things are looking up.
Age is an issue. While we can learn at forty, it is far easier for us to learn in our formative years. We also often have the luxury of not worrying about most of the things a forty year old has to consider.
Physical abilities aren't what they were when we reach forty either. Our movements aren't as fluid and a more critical asset, our vision, regardless of acuity, has a more narrow focal range. Put simply, we don't see the cue ball, object ball, and pocket as clearly on long shots at the same time as we did when we were twenty. JohnnyT is correct that there is a big difference between playing the game continuously from our teen or twenties into our forties or sixties and trying to pick up the game at forty. When we play continuously we adjust to our physical changes as they happen.
Having said all of these things, we know nothing about the OP. Has he been doing something else requiring the same basic skills as pool? His tools may be sharper than his pool game indicates. How bad does he want it? If this is his middle age crazy move his odds of success just went up tenfold. If he has wanted this for many years and says he has to make his move now or never his odds are much better.
As many others and I have pointed out earlier, there are reasonable moves to make testing the waters without burning all of his other bridges. I can look back at over a half century of regrets and I can honestly say that over 90% of them start with "Why didn't". It is usually the things we don't try that we regret most.
Hu
Cuechick's post addresses what may lie at the heart of the matter. There are two types of people in the world, those that love to compete and thrive on it, and those that don't. The love of battle is more important than natural ability, more important than physical assets, more important than any other single thing. That I believe is inborn, you don't get to choose if you have it or not.
Most people will agree that at least in that one sport, an Olympic champion is the best in the world at that moment in time. History is full of Olympic champions who either had physical handicaps to overcome or came back from injuries that would have sidelined most people to not only compete but to win against the best, when it counted the most. Heart above all.
Then being driven, obsessed, is probably next on the list of assets you need to beat the best. Do you have to push yourself to practice? Odds are much longer of you being successful. Wake and go to sleep thinking about pool? Things are looking up.
Age is an issue. While we can learn at forty, it is far easier for us to learn in our formative years. We also often have the luxury of not worrying about most of the things a forty year old has to consider.
Physical abilities aren't what they were when we reach forty either. Our movements aren't as fluid and a more critical asset, our vision, regardless of acuity, has a more narrow focal range. Put simply, we don't see the cue ball, object ball, and pocket as clearly on long shots at the same time as we did when we were twenty. JohnnyT is correct that there is a big difference between playing the game continuously from our teen or twenties into our forties or sixties and trying to pick up the game at forty. When we play continuously we adjust to our physical changes as they happen.
Having said all of these things, we know nothing about the OP. Has he been doing something else requiring the same basic skills as pool? His tools may be sharper than his pool game indicates. How bad does he want it? If this is his middle age crazy move his odds of success just went up tenfold. If he has wanted this for many years and says he has to make his move now or never his odds are much better.
As many others and I have pointed out earlier, there are reasonable moves to make testing the waters without burning all of his other bridges. I can look back at over a half century of regrets and I can honestly say that over 90% of them start with "Why didn't". It is usually the things we don't try that we regret most.
Hu
cuechick said:
In my humble opinion the route to pro status has to be done in stages. Pool 24/7 is probably not the answer. I would say continue working and use all free time to work thru these stages. A few that come to mind.
Start beating the 9, 10 ball ghost. Also at some point you should be able to run 100 balls in straight pool. Play the best locals for money. If they are to easy on unwilling, use this forum to find pro players in towns within 3 hours of you and go play them for money. (I can go 3hrs. any direction and find a champion willing to give me a fair spot and lighten my wallet) The main purpose of this is to see if your game stays consistent when playing a pro. Some of these guys give a lot of weight if you bet. Go to the Derby City or other big pro event and see how good they really play. Good luck and remember the best players biggest attribute is in addition to great skill they adjust to all conditions well and deal with the pressure better than amatuers.
Start beating the 9, 10 ball ghost. Also at some point you should be able to run 100 balls in straight pool. Play the best locals for money. If they are to easy on unwilling, use this forum to find pro players in towns within 3 hours of you and go play them for money. (I can go 3hrs. any direction and find a champion willing to give me a fair spot and lighten my wallet) The main purpose of this is to see if your game stays consistent when playing a pro. Some of these guys give a lot of weight if you bet. Go to the Derby City or other big pro event and see how good they really play. Good luck and remember the best players biggest attribute is in addition to great skill they adjust to all conditions well and deal with the pressure better than amatuers.
There are several things to consider if a serious life style change is contemplated.
1. Why do you want to do this?
2. What is your goal?
3. What happens after you accomplish it?
4. Are you willing to make the time commitment?
I have suggested to others many times that whether you know it or not you have been doing the same thing for years. From the age of 15 or so when we are allowed to make some choices you have turned every job into who you are.
You might be flipping fries at 16 but you were the person who --- fill in the blank. You found new ways to make fries, you started or stopped arguments. You were the joker, the innovator, the leader, the follower. You have always been dedicated, compulsive and go far beyond what is expected because it is just who you are. So if you will review your life you already know if you have what it takes to be a professional player, serious commitment and long of hours of daily practice with no feedback from others.
If it seems to fall in line with who you are, the next step is to gradually move into the life style for some specific period of time, say six months, and tell yourself that at the end of six months you will stop and re-evaluate the whole situation.
And that is only the beginning.
1. Why do you want to do this?
2. What is your goal?
3. What happens after you accomplish it?
4. Are you willing to make the time commitment?
I have suggested to others many times that whether you know it or not you have been doing the same thing for years. From the age of 15 or so when we are allowed to make some choices you have turned every job into who you are.
You might be flipping fries at 16 but you were the person who --- fill in the blank. You found new ways to make fries, you started or stopped arguments. You were the joker, the innovator, the leader, the follower. You have always been dedicated, compulsive and go far beyond what is expected because it is just who you are. So if you will review your life you already know if you have what it takes to be a professional player, serious commitment and long of hours of daily practice with no feedback from others.
If it seems to fall in line with who you are, the next step is to gradually move into the life style for some specific period of time, say six months, and tell yourself that at the end of six months you will stop and re-evaluate the whole situation.
And that is only the beginning.
The figures below are the earnings of Mike Davis going back to the year 2000. Keep in mind that these figures do not include the deductions for fed. taxes, state taxes, and perhaps city taxes. Nor does it include deductions for Soc. Sec., unemployment ins., disability ins. You must also consider health care, retirement, and of course his total living expenses are to be deducted from his earnings. Whatever he has left over can't be much.
Sometimes everything looks greener on the other side of the fence. That is until we have to go over there and actually cut the grass.
2006 Winnings: $67,895.00
View 2006 Tournament Results
2005 Winnings: $22,235.00
View 2005 Tournament Results
2004 Winnings: $19,953.00
View 2004 Tournament Results
2003 Winnings: $30,812.00
View 2003 Tournament Results
2002 Winnings: $3,775.00
View 2002 Tournament Results
2001 Winnings: $3,270.00
View 2001 Tournament Results
2000 Winnings: $3,480.00
View 2000 Tournament Results
Sometimes everything looks greener on the other side of the fence. That is until we have to go over there and actually cut the grass.
2006 Winnings: $67,895.00
View 2006 Tournament Results
2005 Winnings: $22,235.00
View 2005 Tournament Results
2004 Winnings: $19,953.00
View 2004 Tournament Results
2003 Winnings: $30,812.00
View 2003 Tournament Results
2002 Winnings: $3,775.00
View 2002 Tournament Results
2001 Winnings: $3,270.00
View 2001 Tournament Results
2000 Winnings: $3,480.00
View 2000 Tournament Results
Dawgie said:
Dawgie, to be fair, AZ money rankings are woefully underrepresented. There are many tours and/or single tournaments which are not counted.
On top of that, you won't have to pay much at all in taxes if you earn less than you spent as part of your business.
That said, I know you are just making a point, and I completely agree with it.
- Steve
Thank you to all for feedback!
To all, I would like to say, Thank you for taking the time and effort to provide sincere, honest feedback.
To be perfectly honest, I have no REAL desire to turn pro, because I know how hard the life will be, especially given my combination of limited ability, desire, financial security, etc. Since the cumulative experience of the users here is gargantuan, I thought this would be a valid place to pose the question.
Was I seriously thinking about it? No. The only way I would consider leaving my day job to pursue this would be if I happened upon a LOT of money to where debt, retirement and financial security were no longer issues.
I know about the benefits problem, having a portfolio, how hard retirement can be even for us working stiffs, etc. I was simply curious as to everyone's feedback to see what I had not thought of.
My colleagues were riding me a little last week about not having the courage to pursue my dreams, etc. When I tried to explain how difficult it would be I was accused of making excuses. It was very easy for them to sit back and make those claims, when all of them (non-pool players) are not living THEIR OWN dreams...but you get my point.
As I had mentioned, I have been around pool for 20 years so I have seen my fair share of great (make that phenomenal) players who have less than I do in terms of assets, benefits, etc. One can make the argument that they are living their dreams...but I bet most of them can't take two vacations a year like me, for example.
And some of you are right about me being 40 and thinking about this as a bad idea. When you get older you DO think about health more, and your own mortality, and you do question whether you are living up to your potential, pursuing your dreams etc. That is inevitable for most of us. No, I am not going through a mid-life crisis, it was just a thought as I said.
Here I am, 45 miles from Hall of Fame in Detroit and would rather sit on the sofa with g/f and dog and watch a movie...so the desire is obviously not there.
So...once again, I will remain a C-player and dream like the rest of us (what if...) but truth be told I like my life now, and won't give it up to become a road agent, hustle, scrounge etc.
Thanks again for everyone's honesty.
Two more things:
cuechick - I am not a troll. I posted then left for an 8-hour road trip (NPR) and only logged in just now to read feedback to my OP, which I have been eagerly awaiting.
Jude - the comment about logic meaning nothing to me was a little harsh. You seem to make an assumption that I am either reckless or that I have not thought about this at all, which is incorrect in both cases. Keep in mind I am not looking for some onlne bickering.
To all, I would like to say, Thank you for taking the time and effort to provide sincere, honest feedback.
To be perfectly honest, I have no REAL desire to turn pro, because I know how hard the life will be, especially given my combination of limited ability, desire, financial security, etc. Since the cumulative experience of the users here is gargantuan, I thought this would be a valid place to pose the question.
Was I seriously thinking about it? No. The only way I would consider leaving my day job to pursue this would be if I happened upon a LOT of money to where debt, retirement and financial security were no longer issues.
I know about the benefits problem, having a portfolio, how hard retirement can be even for us working stiffs, etc. I was simply curious as to everyone's feedback to see what I had not thought of.
My colleagues were riding me a little last week about not having the courage to pursue my dreams, etc. When I tried to explain how difficult it would be I was accused of making excuses. It was very easy for them to sit back and make those claims, when all of them (non-pool players) are not living THEIR OWN dreams...but you get my point.
As I had mentioned, I have been around pool for 20 years so I have seen my fair share of great (make that phenomenal) players who have less than I do in terms of assets, benefits, etc. One can make the argument that they are living their dreams...but I bet most of them can't take two vacations a year like me, for example.
And some of you are right about me being 40 and thinking about this as a bad idea. When you get older you DO think about health more, and your own mortality, and you do question whether you are living up to your potential, pursuing your dreams etc. That is inevitable for most of us. No, I am not going through a mid-life crisis, it was just a thought as I said.
Here I am, 45 miles from Hall of Fame in Detroit and would rather sit on the sofa with g/f and dog and watch a movie...so the desire is obviously not there.
So...once again, I will remain a C-player and dream like the rest of us (what if...) but truth be told I like my life now, and won't give it up to become a road agent, hustle, scrounge etc.
Thanks again for everyone's honesty.
Two more things:
cuechick - I am not a troll. I posted then left for an 8-hour road trip (NPR) and only logged in just now to read feedback to my OP, which I have been eagerly awaiting.
Jude - the comment about logic meaning nothing to me was a little harsh. You seem to make an assumption that I am either reckless or that I have not thought about this at all, which is incorrect in both cases. Keep in mind I am not looking for some onlne bickering.
nothing wrong with coming here for a reality check
Nothing wrong with coming here for a reality check. I took a very hard look at pursuing pool full time back in the early seventies. I had the skill, the hunger, and the youth. Problem was I had other skills that paid far better and everything else I did had a much better upside and less downside potential. In the same place I was in the early seventies today, I wouldn't hesitate to turn pro but I had deliberately committed to keeping all options open until I was 25 and was single and free of debt at all times, usually with cash and assets.
Hu
Nothing wrong with coming here for a reality check. I took a very hard look at pursuing pool full time back in the early seventies. I had the skill, the hunger, and the youth. Problem was I had other skills that paid far better and everything else I did had a much better upside and less downside potential. In the same place I was in the early seventies today, I wouldn't hesitate to turn pro but I had deliberately committed to keeping all options open until I was 25 and was single and free of debt at all times, usually with cash and assets.
Hu
inside_english said: