Question for all table techs

PETROBOY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Im new to this fourm and I love all the info I have been finding and all kinds of good pics which helps for all of us non mechanics to understand how a pool table goes together and should be. My question is why is there so much bickering and arguing between you guys? I am an electrician and I am a professional, I would never put everyone down and say my work is the best and if there was someone whos work wasnt as good we as professionals give advice on how they can get better we dont call them hacks and post pics of some less then par work. I know schedules are hard to keep but as a customer I cant stand being told you will be here on a date and you dont show up and then it seams like a fight to get answers. I know not all of you guys are like this but I have seen it from more then one person and to me this isnt how a professional service person operates. Why cant all you guys get along and help each other and all us players when we have questions. My mini rant is over thanks.
 
Why do fisherman tell tales? Personal feelings and pride run rampant and in many cases the only contact and outlet is here in plain view of the world... but I think part of it is boredom. Shrug.
 
Finding an electrician who does quality work is less subject to guesswork... you go with a licensed person from a reputable company. The pictures of "hack" work are there so that somebody has a chance of searching online and avoiding such work, or recognizing it in progress and mitigating the damage.
As far as the internal bickering, I think it largely has to do with pride and I don't mind it. The professionals aren't perfect people (after all, they play pool... we're all flawed human beings) but at the end of the day the short list of quality mechanics remains relatively unchanged.
 
Finding an electrician who does quality work is less subject to guesswork... you go with a licensed person from a reputable company. The pictures of "hack" work are there so that somebody has a chance of searching online and avoiding such work, or recognizing it in progress and mitigating the damage.
As far as the internal bickering, I think it largely has to do with pride and I don't mind it. The professionals aren't perfect people (after all, they play pool... we're all flawed human beings) but at the end of the day the short list of quality mechanics remains relatively unchanged.

Very well stated, I agree and would add we do not have a national code book or even a basic set of industry standards. No formal training programs for service people. No testing by independent review boards. No licence required. As a result, lots of bad and sub standard work.

Jay
 
I agree with Jay....the sad thing is if anyone wants to look back at all the posts 2 or 3 years ago....everyone was really nice and respectful to one another.
What truly happened was all the ones that were being nice wanted one thing and one thing only....info on how to do....whats the right way...how do you do this...man I never knew that...phone call after phone call to me...Jay....and most of all Glen.
Guy's doing work on tables for 20 years not even knowing what the pocket opening spec's are.....look back to 2006 when Glen started to help people...no rail work was discussed....pocket openings....rail height of sub-rails....nothing.....no gluing the cloth on the right way....no indexing the cloth.....nothing that we're all doing today.

Who to thank for that Glen......Jay......and rails me.
This isn't about look at me....look at Glen....it's about all the guy's that posted in the past and post today acting like they are top mechanic's today....and some are pretty good....but look how every chance they get...they jump on Glen...now some on me....Jay's smart he stays out of this shit...cause he does great work and don't need the bullshit.

The real problem is that these guy's want to pay for advertising everywhere....take on every job they can....keep their prices low....do 3 or 4 jobs a day and then ***** about guy's like Glen and myself that have never advertised.
Please don't let me miss lead you.....that's how it's done...I understand that....but, why would you install tables....move tables all day...make great money....and get upset because Glen calls you and INSTALLER?????

I see more people advertising pool table work today then ever....WHY...because 98% of the customers don't know what a good job or bad job is....all they know is the cloth looks really pretty....you did a great job....I'll tell everyone...when the table is 100% a shit job.....but they don't know....next job please.

You guy's all bad mouth Glen.....but just answer me this....how can all YOU INSTALLERS make YOUR appointments on time....I truly understand being on time to the first job....but how the hell do you make the 11:00 a.m. job on time and the 1:30 p.m. job on time?
Myself, I have no earthly idea how long the first tables going to take if I repair everything that needs done for the first customer.....I always do more than the customer pays for....and trust me if I didn't fix some things the customer would never know.....but that's not who I am.
If you advertise your business and get a lot of work from it your a smart man...and you make great money......so why would you expect a great table MECHANIC such as Glen to call you a top table MECHANIC???
I WAS FRIENDS with all the guy's on here that posted.....I head all of it...lower your prices...take every job....people don't know...for what just to make money from someone that thinks their getting a good job?

I enjoy trying to make a table play to the best I can....no matter who is playing on it.
All the top players in the country love my work....and rail work I do....cause when they bet their last dollar on a table that I've done...they know they can trust the table.
I don't think I'm better than anyone else that does this work.....I do think I give more effort.
Each and everyone of you guy's that do this kind of work....have been posting on this forum....owe Glen more respect then you give him. Cause I know first hand how much you guy's really knew about tables before you started getting info from him and (IT WASN'T MUCH)

I know the things I've shown....advise on the phone to most of all of you guy's...and now guy's like me and Glen are the bad guy's.
This post doesn't apply to everyone on this forum.....just the ones that are getting hot reading it....and calling one and other talking about me right now.

BEST I CAN OFFER YOU GUY'S FROM HERE ON OUT.....DROP YOUR BIG ASS EGO....GO BACK ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO BEFORE YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE A GREAT MECHANIC......AND EVERYONE CAN WORK TOGETHER AGAIN....OR LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES UNDERCOVER LIKE YOU DID BEFORE YOU MET GLEN....JAY AND MYSELF.
SORRY FOR GETTING SO UP-SET......BUT WHEN YOUR GIVING ALL THE INFO AND ALL THE THINGS THAT TOOK US 25 YEARS TO LEARN....AND WE PASS IT ON TO GUY'S IN THE BUSINESS THAT NEVER HAD THE FIRST IDEA ABOUT 75% OF THE WORK THEY ARE NOW OFFERING....THEN TALK DOWN TO THE GUY'S.....KIND ENOUGH TO SHOW THEM....TELL THEM.....GIVE THEM TOOLS TO DO THE WORK WITH.
A LOT OF YOU INSTALLERS ON HERE CAN NEVER AGAIN GET ANY INFO FROM ME...

MOST OF YOU DON'T KNOW A 5 BALL FROM AND ORANGE........BUT YOUR THE BEST MECHANIC...GOOD LUCK.

I'M BY FAR NOT THE BEST NOR DO I WANT TO BE......I'M JUST TIRED OF GUY'S RUNNING THEIR MOUTHS.
HAMMER ME IF YOU LIKE....I'LL TAKE IT......JUST JUST REMEMBER ONE THING BEFORE YOU DO....IN YOUR HEART YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT.....I WAS ALWAYS THERE FOR EVERYONE.....NO MORE!!!!!!
 
I agree with Jay....the sad thing is if anyone wants to look back at all the posts 2 or 3 years ago....everyone was really nice and respectful to one another.
What truly happened was all the ones that were being nice wanted one thing and one thing only....info on how to do....whats the right way...how do you do this...man I never knew that...phone call after phone call to me...Jay....and most of all Glen.
Guy's doing work on tables for 20 years not even knowing what the pocket opening spec's are.....look back to 2006 when Glen started to help people...no rail work was discussed....pocket openings....rail height of sub-rails....nothing.....no gluing the cloth on the right way....no indexing the cloth.....nothing that we're all doing today.

Who to thank for that Glen......Jay......and rails me.
This isn't about look at me....look at Glen....it's about all the guy's that posted in the past and post today acting like they are top mechanic's today....and some are pretty good....but look how every chance they get...they jump on Glen...now some on me....Jay's smart he stays out of this shit...cause he does great work and don't need the bullshit.

The real problem is that these guy's want to pay for advertising everywhere....take on every job they can....keep their prices low....do 3 or 4 jobs a day and then ***** about guy's like Glen and myself that have never advertised.
Please don't let me miss lead you.....that's how it's done...I understand that....but, why would you install tables....move tables all day...make great money....and get upset because Glen calls you and INSTALLER?????

I see more people advertising pool table work today then ever....WHY...because 98% of the customers don't know what a good job or bad job is....all they know is the cloth looks really pretty....you did a great job....I'll tell everyone...when the table is 100% a shit job.....but they don't know....next job please.

You guy's all bad mouth Glen.....but just answer me this....how can all YOU INSTALLERS make YOUR appointments on time....I truly understand being on time to the first job....but how the hell do you make the 11:00 a.m. job on time and the 1:30 p.m. job on time?
Myself, I have no earthly idea how long the first tables going to take if I repair everything that needs done for the first customer.....I always do more than the customer pays for....and trust me if I didn't fix some things the customer would never know.....but that's not who I am.
If you advertise your business and get a lot of work from it your a smart man...and you make great money......so why would you expect a great table MECHANIC such as Glen to call you a top table MECHANIC???
I WAS FRIENDS with all the guy's on here that posted.....I head all of it...lower your prices...take every job....people don't know...for what just to make money from someone that thinks their getting a good job?

I enjoy trying to make a table play to the best I can....no matter who is playing on it.
All the top players in the country love my work....and rail work I do....cause when they bet their last dollar on a table that I've done...they know they can trust the table.
I don't think I'm better than anyone else that does this work.....I do think I give more effort.
Each and everyone of you guy's that do this kind of work....have been posting on this forum....owe Glen more respect then you give him. Cause I know first hand how much you guy's really knew about tables before you started getting info from him and (IT WASN'T MUCH)

I know the things I've shown....advise on the phone to most of all of you guy's...and now guy's like me and Glen are the bad guy's.
This post doesn't apply to everyone on this forum.....just the ones that are getting hot reading it....and calling one and other talking about me right now.

BEST I CAN OFFER YOU GUY'S FROM HERE ON OUT.....DROP YOUR BIG ASS EGO....GO BACK ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO BEFORE YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE A GREAT MECHANIC......AND EVERYONE CAN WORK TOGETHER AGAIN....OR LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES UNDERCOVER LIKE YOU DID BEFORE YOU MET GLEN....JAY AND MYSELF.
SORRY FOR GETTING SO UP-SET......BUT WHEN YOUR GIVING ALL THE INFO AND ALL THE THINGS THAT TOOK US 25 YEARS TO LEARN....AND WE PASS IT ON TO GUY'S IN THE BUSINESS THAT NEVER HAD THE FIRST IDEA ABOUT 75% OF THE WORK THEY ARE NOW OFFERING....THEN TALK DOWN TO THE GUY'S.....KIND ENOUGH TO SHOW THEM....TELL THEM.....GIVE THEM TOOLS TO DO THE WORK WITH.
A LOT OF YOU INSTALLERS ON HERE CAN NEVER AGAIN GET ANY INFO FROM ME...

MOST OF YOU DON'T KNOW A 5 BALL FROM AND ORANGE........BUT YOUR THE BEST MECHANIC...GOOD LUCK.

I'M BY FAR NOT THE BEST NOR DO I WANT TO BE......I'M JUST TIRED OF GUY'S RUNNING THEIR MOUTHS.
HAMMER ME IF YOU LIKE....I'LL TAKE IT......JUST JUST REMEMBER ONE THING BEFORE YOU DO....IN YOUR HEART YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT.....I WAS ALWAYS THERE FOR EVERYONE.....NO MORE!!!!!!

Thank you Mark, all I can say is...I second that. I'm not teaching anyone anything any more, I'm done. And, when it comes to staying out of someone else's backyard...that don't apply to certain areas anymore!

Glen
 
Thank you Mark, all I can say is...I second that. I'm not teaching anyone anything any more, I'm done. And, when it comes to staying out of someone else's backyard...that don't apply to certain areas anymore!

Glen

Again you two egomaniacs:ignore::ignore:
 

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Again you two egomaniacs:ignore::ignore:

You can act like that Pat, you don't get your business from AZ anyway. Mark was right about what he posted, which is why I'm done teaching any body anymore, because of guys like you...and your buddies! Be happy you're an installer, because as a table mechanic...you might really have to know something.

Glen
 
You can act like that Pat, you don't get your business from AZ anyway. Mark was right about what he posted, which is why I'm done teaching any body anymore, because of guys like you...and your buddies! Be happy you're an installer, because as a table mechanic...you might really have to know something.

Glen

Glen.....What do you know about what I know? You have never worked with me other than Alsip. Less than a year ago you posted if anyone was in the Northeast to call us. And I got a rep from you that said:
I'd like to thank a few... 01-30-2011 10:33 PM realkingcobra You guys are the future of table mechanics! http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2838614#post2838614
Because I call bullshit on you and your buddy you try to downplay my skills. I am done with you. Have been for a year or so. If you leave me alone I will leave you alone.
 
Glen.....What do you know about what I know? You have never worked with me other than Alsip. Less than a year ago you posted if anyone was in the Northeast to call us. And I got a rep from you that said: Because I call bullshit on you and your buddy you try to downplay my skills. I am done with you. Have been for a year or so. If you leave me alone I will leave you alone.

Why do you always bring me in to your shit.....I said nothing that was untrue......where have I done any bullshit.....all I've done was help you......now I'm and ego maniac cause I tell the truth......best to leave me out if you can't take the heat.

I never said you were bad at what you do......I said a lot of people don't give Glen the credit for what he has shown everyone and talked on the phone with everyone.

No one is down playing your skills......all I ever said was show some respect to the guy that helped you know what little you do about tables....anyone can advertise and get work....how many jobs do you get off the web site???????

Now....I didn't single you or anyone out.....I said everyone that has learned from Glen....including myself should be thankful for his help.

Who got the real ego problem Pat???????????
 
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Glen.....What do you know about what I know? You have never worked with me other than Alsip. Less than a year ago you posted if anyone was in the Northeast to call us. And I got a rep from you that said: Because I call bullshit on you and your buddy you try to downplay my skills. I am done with you. Have been for a year or so. If you leave me alone I will leave you alone.

Pat, you're the one that always has to make a comment here and there about me...first! And yes, at one time a year or so ago, I had high hopes for you and your crew...but look at how you've turned out over the last year or so, taking any chance you can to try and jump on me...for what?!! You have nothing to gain always trying to knock me...when are you going to learn that? You NEED to just pay attention to YOUR business...and worry less about what I'm doing....or what I might NOT be doing, because this is what I do for a living and because I love what I do. You always have to question me about everything, like I'm lying to you or something. You didn't believe me about the polisher that Diamond sells...that I designed it and still get paid for it everytime Diamond sells one. You didn't believe me when I said I was going to build Diamond's billiards tables either. All I can say is....OH well, you were wrong back then, and still are today.

Glen
 
well.....

Personally, I'm just going to tip my hat to what I like to call "the big three"for what they have done and accomplished. I was good at what I do,especially in the regions I mostly stayed in. I had nobody to emulate because I was setting the new standards. I have no problem swallowing my pride and telling people around the country that I'm chasing three guys to learn what I didn't know. I had a new goal- not to be the best around,but be recognized by the best around as a peer. Like a poolplayers chasing archer on the tournament trail til he's acknowledged as a strong player. I had weak spots in my game that I didn't even know I had til it was made clear. And I fixed it.again and again and again.... what's the difference in a mechanic and an installer? After 20 years of abuse and ignored problems by countless installers to a table, a mechanic fixes it. It took me meeting a mechanic to fix what I didn't even know was wrong- not with a table, but with the amount I could do to a table beyond what I had done. I've never looked back since. I know that there's been a ton of info that has benefited everyone of us here, and that's what separates us from the masses.... the willingness and ability to take info and apply it to make every table better than the last. I've met and talked with table guys around the country and MAYBE 1 in 300 even knew what a subrail was,much less that you could extend or rebuild one with something besides another shim. At some point in our careers,that was all of us. Now, we stand out. Because of our work? Word of mouth? Azbilliards? Each others recommendations and help? Pride? all of the above and then some? We were a bunch of guys with the same Passion and job that came together from around the country to pool what we know and create something never seen before. Now we are once again a bunch of guys around the country but improved- thanks to a few that wanted to help however they could. I like pretty much everyone on here, I'm still passing glen on the road but its going to be a bit before I pass him on the table. It's not for a lack of ability or willingness- anyone that has ever met me knows that I will never be satisfied no matter how perfect everything is done- but because he's got the experience and the one thing most of us have only tasted to some degree..... while we've been chasing the big three to prove ourselves to the world,they've been finding new and better ways to raise the bar. Jay has probably forgotten more little things on various tables over the years than many will ever learn. Mark didn't get rails to play like that working on 300.00 rubber wood tables from China, and I seriously doubt he just walked into Sears one day and said I'm going to cut apart a table and glue it back together. Bob ,I know you for one came,saw,learned,and applied his method that most of the world still doesn't know. I'm jealous by the way. If glen hadn't rubbed every ones nose in their work who would be trying to prove him wrong everyday. He even pissed me off enough to learn everything I can just so he can't say a Damn thing to me lol. There's a lot of talent in these threads, I just wish we could have put the union together the rest of the way...before we tore it apart. I have to get the truck loaded to get back on the road,the tables and customers don't care about our soap opera or why things are the way they've gotten- they just want to be the next one done right in our quest for perfection. My phones are on, and all of you have my number- see ya somewhere.
 
Funny I never remember this forum being friendly but over the last year it did get better

It's Az that has allowed it to operate without a code of conduct

A moderator constantly watching, sad but true.

I' ll straighten this place out. It's like the www with no leader or law
 
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Trust me....I'm not trying to put anyone down......or think I'm better than anyone.....It's just that some of us have gone above and beyond to HELP anyone.....Now the same ones you have helped are the same ones trying to put you down.......where does that get anyone????

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS......THEY WERE FIXING POOL TABLES BEFORE ALL OF US.......AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO FIX POOL TABLES LONG AFTER WE'RE GONE.

SO WHO REALLY WINS KNOCKING EACH OTHER......FORGIVE.....FORGET.....AND MOVE ON.
I FOR ONE DON'T WANT TO MAKE ENEMIES WITH ANYONE ON HERE.....I'M JUST TRYING TO HELP EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THAT GLEN IS THE REASON ANY OF US KNOW ONE AND OTHER FROM THE START.

I FEEL BAD GLEN DON'T GET THE RESPECT FROM US HE DESERVES....I KNOW AND APPRECIATE HOW MUCH BETTER HE'S MADE ME.....AND I DON'T FORGET IT (EVER).
WE ALL KNOW GLEN HAS HIS MISHAPS HERE AND THERE.....SO DON'T HAMMER THE GUY FOR IT....DON'T COMMEND HIM EITHER......JUST LET HIM STRAIGHTEN IT OUT HIMSELF.....NONE OF OUR BUSINESS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
 
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I think its a shame that none of you guys get the respect you all deserve!! Just remember there is more to deserving respect then just doing good work, how you deal with people is a big part of it too.
 
Trust me....I'm not trying to put anyone down......or think I'm better than anyone.....It's just that some of us have gone above and beyond to HELP anyone.....Now the same ones you have helped are the same ones trying to put you down.......where does that get anyone????

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS......THEY WERE FIXING POOL TABLES BEFORE ALL OF US.......AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO FIX POOL TABLES LONG AFTER WE'RE GONE.

SO WHO REALLY WINS KNOCKING EACH OTHER......FORGIVE.....FORGET.....AND MOVE ON.
I FOR ONE DON'T WANT TO MAKE ENEMIES WITH ANYONE ON HERE.....I'M JUST TRYING TO HELP EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THAT GLEN IS THE REASON ANY OF US KNOW ONE AND OTHER FROM THE START.

I FEEL BAD GLEN DON'T GET THE RESPECT FROM US HE DESERVES....I KNOW AND APPRECIATE HOW MUCH BETTER HE'S MADE ME.....AND I DON'T FORGET IT (EVER).
WE ALL KNOW GLEN HAS HIS MISHAPS HERE AND THERE.....SO DON'T HAMMER THE GUY FOR IT....DON'T COMMEND HIM EITHER......JUST LET HIM STRAIGHTEN IT OUT HIMSELF.....NONE OF OUR BUSINESS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I find it hypocritical for some to benefit from Glenn's lifetime of hard work and knowledge then rag on him.
Hey, maybe if Glenn just wanted all these knowledge to himself, some would still be pulling cloth the wrong way and the people that only it are in his private circles.
Not some who'd stab him in the back after gaining from him.
 
I find it hypocritical for some to benefit from Glenn's lifetime of hard work and knowledge then rag on him.
Hey, maybe if Glenn just wanted all these knowledge to himself, some would still be pulling cloth the wrong way and the people that only it are in his private circles.
Not some who'd stab him in the back after gaining from him.
nevermind
Not worth it
 
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you guys....for peets sake.

can we not all agree that this forum is being diluted with non-pool table related matters. please discuss your personal issues backstage or in a PM.

thank you from all of us.
 
you guys....for peets sake.

can we not all agree that this forum is being diluted with non-pool table related matters. please discuss your personal issues backstage or in a PM.

thank you from all of us.

Thank you. That definitely unfortunately needed to be said.
 
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