Question for Legit Streamers

[Fatboy]

You know who you are, the few of you who do PPV streamed events. I know there are great free streams to, so perhaps the title of this thread is misleading(sorry)

Please bear or bare with me for a second, I'd rather bear than bare with you guys

First off, let me say I appreciate your work and dedication Pat, JCIN, etc.

My question is a result of a poll on here, I understand your biz numbers, are your biz so I kinda dont expect answers but a "Fuzzy" answer or "kinda close, kinda sorta" answer is close enough. If its cool ,if not i respect that.


Its been my understanding for many years that when you switch from "Free" to "PPV" on a stream you lose 70%-90% of the viewers(i know it varies for many reasons).

So my question is(finally)

Is the 70%-90% about the number?


The reason I ask is I saw the BB poll of who would buy the PPV and it reflected those numbers. Seems to me it would better serve BB if they had as large of audiences as possible. And since PPV ain't their main $$$ maker, it might be a penny wise, pound foolish move. Seems to me, i'd want as many people watching as possible and not lose X%(has to be over half).

Thanks,
eric

 

[Nine ... corner]

Makes sense to me, Eric. Let it be free for the opening season to build a presence and audience and consider going to PPV if there is a second season.

 

[Fatboy]

Makes sense to me, Eric. Let it be free for the opening season to build a presence and audience and consider going to PPV if there is a second season.

yes build a presence and get people addicted, just like the dope man does, the first bag is free. I know that a horrible comparison but its true. Get them hooked, then when you got them on the line reel them in.

Honestly if they grab 1000 people for a full season and a few weeklies whats that $200,000-very little compaired to the whole thing. I supose i'm guilty of counting other peoples $$ now too. My excuse is I am thinking about the pool biz and its future.

 

[JumpinJoe]

yes build a presence and get people addicted, just like the dope man does, the first bag is free. I know that a horrible comparison but its true. Get them hooked, then when you got them on the line reel them in.

Honestly if they grab 1000 people for a full season and a few weeklies whats that $200,000-very little compaired to the whole thing. I supose i'm guilty of counting other peoples $$ now too. My excuse is I am thinking about the pool biz and its future.

$200,000 to Bonus Ball, where have you been lately. That's nothing to them. Besides why would they want to try and get anyone hooked on a new game? They think we are suppose just pay to watch those guys. The bonus ball P.R. Team has this pool all figured out.

Until I with my own eyes see some of these guys (pros) actually gambling on Bonus Ball they can never make me believe they love this game. I've been around about 7 to 8 of Hesse players since it started getting cancelled in November and not once did I her bonus ball or see em matching up playin bonus ball. He'll I never even seen them practice bonus ball. Kind of hard to believe they love it that much. But that's just what I've seen, I know I don't know much around the pool room or think on these guys level so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Roger Long]

You know who you are, the few of you who do PPV streamed events. I know there are great free streams to, so perhaps the title of this thread is misleading(sorry)

Please bear or bare with me for a second, I'd rather bear than bare with you guys

First off, let me say I appreciate your work and dedication Pat, JCIN, etc.

My question is a result of a poll on here, I understand your biz numbers, are your biz so I kinda dont expect answers but a "Fuzzy" answer or "kinda close, kinda sorta" answer is close enough. If its cool ,if not i respect that.


Its been my understanding for many years that when you switch from "Free" to "PPV" on a stream you lose 70%-90% of the viewers(i know it varies for many reasons).

So my question is(finally)

Is the 70%-90% about the number?


The reason I ask is I saw the BB poll of who would buy the PPV and it reflected those numbers. Seems to me it would better serve BB if they had as large of audiences as possible. And since PPV ain't their main $$$ maker, it might be a penny wise, pound foolish move. Seems to me, i'd want as many people watching as possible and not lose X%(has to be over half).

Thanks,
eric

When it was 100% free, 70%-90% were complaining because their free stream wasn't coming through to their satisfaction. Also, a 100% free stream equals a 100% loss, whereas a 10%-30% paid viewership equals a 100% revenue gain to Bonus Ball (at ;least, at this point).

I watched as a paid viewer last night, and I'm 100% happy with the way things are turning out with Bonus Ball's production efforts. Thanks, Nathan, Dave, and Lenny!

Roger

 

[woody_968]

This is an interesting question. I'd hate to be the one out there streaming (not really, wish I could) that has so much money tied up not only in equipment but also in time and travel. They have to make a buck somewhere. As far as keeping it free until the viewers are hooked, there is some truth to that. But you have to have enough working capital to stay alive while your hooking people.

Bonus Ball may be able to do that, and would probably be better served in that manor. It's not a secret that they want to break into the tv market and I would think that would be easier to do if they could show a larger number of viewers every week compared to what they will get by charging.

Your average Joe streamer may not be able to do that though. Lets face it, I don't care how long they stream for free in the long run there is a large number that simply will not pay to watch a stream. So the bigger question would be why wont they? Is it cost? Ease of payment? Quality of stream? Quality of players being streamed? I'm sure all the streamers have thought about each of these questions.

We are lucky to have some excellent people doing streaming, which I think is one of the main staples so to speak to see pool ever get to TV. You have to be able to show advertisers that there is an audience out there. But being realistic the audience watching pool streams is peanuts compared to mainstream TV.

The question is are average streamers better off charging for a stream, or allowing for free streams and building up a large enough audience to attract sponsors to support their stream?

Big Truck (who does an incredible stream by the way) will be streaming the 10 ball coming up here soon. It will be free and is being paid for by sponsors. I tried to contact Ultimate 10ball about doing some sponsorship on this stream. Sadly I never heard back from anyone at Ultimate 10ball. I know they are more than busy, but I would have loved to had the opportunity to help support Ray and get my product in front of pool players, as long as I could afford it.

Woody

 

[BRussell]

Just for context, when Bonus Ball was exclusively on Ustream you could see how many viewers there were, and it was around 200-250.

 

[JCIN]

Its hard to say regarding numbers. I basically do not do any free streaming anymore.

One case that may give you some data to consider is the TAR 20 match. When the PPV system did something unexpected and locked some people out I switched it over to ustream for the final couple hours.

In that two hours we went from under 500 people who paid to watch to over 2000 watching on ustream on very short notice. PPV streaming adds complexity, customer service problems and narrows the audience considerably. I have very specifically built a niche business that can survive off that tiny niche.

Why BB messes with all the hassles of PPV when they cant be selling much at all and people are still just finding out about the game is beyond me. My guess is so they can to go to investors and say it is a functioning stream of revenue. Also Roger could be right in that maybe they feel a couple grand a week to the good is 100% better than nothing.

I think they should of gotten with Ustream and partnered with them for a prime spot in their line up. The production quality is better than most things on ustream and niche sports are 100% what ustream is looking for. Least thats what Brad Hunstable told me a few years back.

 

[Fatboy]

$200,000 to Bonus Ball, where have you been lately. That's nothing to them. Besides why would they want to try and get anyone hooked on a new game? They think we are suppose just pay to watch those guys. The bonus ball P.R. Team has this pool all figured out.
.

re read my post, i know 200K aint shit to them, slow down....:smile:

 

[Fatboy]

Its hard to say regarding numbers. I basically do not do any free streaming anymore.

One case that may give you some data to consider is the TAR 20 match. When the PPV system did something unexpected and locked some people out I switched it over to ustream for the final couple hours.

In that two hours we went from under 500 people who paid to watch to over 2000 watching on ustream on very short notice. PPV streaming adds complexity, customer service problems and narrows the audience considerably. I have very specifically built a niche business that can survive off that tiny niche.

Why BB messes with all the hassles of PPV when they cant be selling much at all and people are still just finding out about the game is beyond me. My guess is so they can to go to investors and say it is a functioning stream of revenue. Also Roger could be right in that maybe they feel a couple grand a week to the good is 100% better than nothing.

I think they should of gotten with Ustream and partnered with them for a prime spot in their line up. The production quality is better than most things on ustream and niche sports are 100% what ustream is looking for. Least thats what Brad Hunstable told me a few years back.

thanks Justin,

Thats my point, if i was blowing 200K/mo to produce a pool TV show or ANY TV show, I'd want as many people watching as possible. the PPV revenue cant be big enough to matter as it relates to their overhead. Where as in your case it does-different biz model.

I think its penny wise and pound foolish on their part to knock out a lot of viewers who would possibly tell their friends to watch BB the pyramid effect. Its a hard sell to tell your friend to spend $10 for one weekend(not enough to get hooked) or $170 to watch something new. That impedes growth, I'd want the world watching and getting addicted to my new TV show-if i was spending any kind of folding $$$ to produce a show. Forget about pool this is about TV and large audiences. Its a TV show and TV shows need audiences bigger the better. Charging for them only attracts a pre existing fan base-boxing is a prime example.

 

[spanky79]

I seem to remember back in the early days of TAR when we would all talk about how the number dropped when we would switch from free to PPV. I remember a couple times when the free viewer numbers where over 2 or 3 k and when it switched to ppv 1 or 2 hundred was a good day.

I think the 200k number for bonus ball is being really hopeful. I would be surprised if even 100 people bought the season pass.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I thought Fat Boy typed Steamers. Gotta get my glasses checked.

But anyway, it reminded me to let the dogs out before I go to bed.

 

[Majic]

You know who you are, the few of you who do PPV streamed events. I know there are great free streams to, so perhaps the title of this thread is misleading(sorry)

Please bear or bare with me for a second, I'd rather bear than bare with you guys

First off, let me say I appreciate your work and dedication Pat, JCIN, etc.

My question is a result of a poll on here, I understand your biz numbers, are your biz so I kinda dont expect answers but a "Fuzzy" answer or "kinda close, kinda sorta" answer is close enough. If its cool ,if not i respect that.


Its been my understanding for many years that when you switch from "Free" to "PPV" on a stream you lose 70%-90% of the viewers(i know it varies for many reasons).

So my question is(finally)

Is the 70%-90% about the number?


The reason I ask is I saw the BB poll of who would buy the PPV and it reflected those numbers. Seems to me it would better serve BB if they had as large of audiences as possible. And since PPV ain't their main $$$ maker, it might be a penny wise, pound foolish move. Seems to me, i'd want as many people watching as possible and not lose X%(has to be over half).

Thanks,
eric

depends on who is actually getting the revenues.

 

[Okie]

You know who you are, the few of you who do PPV streamed events. I know there are great free streams to, so perhaps the title of this thread is misleading(sorry)

Please bear or bare with me for a second, I'd rather bear than bare with you guys

First off, let me say I appreciate your work and dedication Pat, JCIN, etc.

My question is a result of a poll on here, I understand your biz numbers, are your biz so I kinda dont expect answers but a "Fuzzy" answer or "kinda close, kinda sorta" answer is close enough. If its cool ,if not i respect that.


Its been my understanding for many years that when you switch from "Free" to "PPV" on a stream you lose 70%-90% of the viewers(i know it varies for many reasons).

So my question is(finally)

Is the 70%-90% about the number?


The reason I ask is I saw the BB poll of who would buy the PPV and it reflected those numbers. Seems to me it would better serve BB if they had as large of audiences as possible. And since PPV ain't their main $$$ maker, it might be a penny wise, pound foolish move. Seems to me, i'd want as many people watching as possible and not lose X%(has to be over half).

Thanks,
eric

Excellent point! The money which could be made having 10x the viewers should dwarf the amount made from PPV. But what do I know...just sharing my opinion.

Also...the Earl stunt did exactly what BB wanted it to do. Friday nights I run a tournament of mainly normal people (aka not AZ'ers or pool addicts), and I had to field a lot of questions about what is this thing called Bonus Ball.

Ken