thebestpoolroom said:
Another good response.
Question for Pool Hall Owner/Operators
- Thread starter DelaWho???
- Start date
Another good response.
Opening a Poolroom
I've owned or been partners in four rooms and helped open eight others.
I can give someone a step by step primer/education in how to open and run a successful poolroom. But this knowledge is not free. You get what you pay for and all that. It's taken me 30 years to learn the ins and outs of opening a room and what to look for and how to proceed.
If you are truly interested in opening your own room, PM me for more info on how I can help you. I will charge you a consultation fee, but it will be well worth it, as I will save you thousands of dollars and much grief.
I've owned or been partners in four rooms and helped open eight others.
I can give someone a step by step primer/education in how to open and run a successful poolroom. But this knowledge is not free. You get what you pay for and all that. It's taken me 30 years to learn the ins and outs of opening a room and what to look for and how to proceed.
If you are truly interested in opening your own room, PM me for more info on how I can help you. I will charge you a consultation fee, but it will be well worth it, as I will save you thousands of dollars and much grief.
FWIW - I have owned many pool rooms over the years. If anyone needs some help - and has some questions/situations, I would help them out if I can.
Sometimes I am a little pressed for time, however, anything that will help the industry grow attracts my attention.
I can also help out with info regarding tables and leagues. I am involved in Diamond Billiard Products and BCA Pool League.
Every situation/location/city presents uniques problems. But there are some very basic fundamentals that have worked well for me over the last many years. I owned my first room in 1969 and am now "roomless" for the first time in 18 years.
I will be at Hopkins show at the Diamond Booth if anyone wants to discuss rooms etc. Or e-mail me at markg@playbca.com. Good Luck!
Mark Griffin
Sometimes I am a little pressed for time, however, anything that will help the industry grow attracts my attention.
I can also help out with info regarding tables and leagues. I am involved in Diamond Billiard Products and BCA Pool League.
Every situation/location/city presents uniques problems. But there are some very basic fundamentals that have worked well for me over the last many years. I owned my first room in 1969 and am now "roomless" for the first time in 18 years.
I will be at Hopkins show at the Diamond Booth if anyone wants to discuss rooms etc. Or e-mail me at markg@playbca.com. Good Luck!
Mark Griffin
nfty9er said:
Jay's Billiards at Hollywood Park was a successful operation. I took a very short lease (3 years with 3 years option) because it was such a sweet deal I had there.
After three years they refused to honor my option and told me I would have to leave at the end of the year. After talking with my attorney, he advised that it would be difficult and expensive to fight them. So they gave me a buy-out of the remaining three years of my lease. It was not a bad deal so I accepted it after some negotiations.
Privately, I may tell you how we did in that space and why we did so well. Suffice to say that it was successful.
Chiming in to second OldHasBeen. I don't own a poolhall, but my friend owns a poolhall\bar with 6 9-footers, 10 8-footers and 4 7-footers. He also owns a bar with a couple of seven footers. Both his poolhall and bar are successful.
According to him, ff you are going to stay in business you have to accept that you are a bar first. He sells products from three main categories: bar, food, table time and pro shop. The money is made primarily from the bar, the food is second, table time a distant third. He says most customers spend more at the bar and on food than they do at table time.
I think one main key to his success is that he keeps a clean place. Not clean like a yuppy bar, but compared to a lot of poolhalls it is nice. Oh, and the hot waitresses do not hurt.
If you have not run a bar before, take OldHasBeens advice and hire a bar manager from a successful place. Running a bar is not nearly as easy at it would seem.
One last thing, consider making room for those stupid electronic dart boards. At my buddies place he has a few and run a league and tournys. He says the darts boards bring in many new faces he would not see otherwise.
According to him, ff you are going to stay in business you have to accept that you are a bar first. He sells products from three main categories: bar, food, table time and pro shop. The money is made primarily from the bar, the food is second, table time a distant third. He says most customers spend more at the bar and on food than they do at table time.
I think one main key to his success is that he keeps a clean place. Not clean like a yuppy bar, but compared to a lot of poolhalls it is nice. Oh, and the hot waitresses do not hurt.
If you have not run a bar before, take OldHasBeens advice and hire a bar manager from a successful place. Running a bar is not nearly as easy at it would seem.
One last thing, consider making room for those stupid electronic dart boards. At my buddies place he has a few and run a league and tournys. He says the darts boards bring in many new faces he would not see otherwise.
The thing helping that place out is a very large population center....Flex said:
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Showboat...Not necessarily. There's a very well run poolroom, called Country Retreat Family Billiards, in Boone, NC...way up in the mountains. Although it's a college town, it's quite small, but he caters to all ages. This room is owned and run by a pool lover, just like us, and has top-of-the-line equipment. He serves NO alcohol, has some food, and runs tournaments on a regular basis. He has also had WPBA regional qualifiers, and Allison Fisher has been there several times. You don't HAVE to have a large population base, nor serve liquor to make money at pool. I'd agree that these places are not the norm, but it shows that it can be done successfully. I'm sure there are many more successful poolrooms that operate on no liquor, we just don't know about them.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
PoolSleuth
Banned
DelaWho??? said:
I find you post of interest, and have only work for Table time in a Pool room many years ago, as a GENERAL Do it all, Go For what the boss told me to go for.
As far as Square Footage figure 300/Table Plus more square footage for an Office, Girls & Boys Room, Counter, Pro Shop, etc.
D you have a Business Plan, or have a Consultant like nick Varner helping you set up this new business. Or are you just a dreaming and thinking of all the fun it would be to be a Pool Room Owner.
Have you studied the competition operation 7 x 24 x 30-45 days to see if they are busy, and what the potential is to really have another Pool room with in 20 Miles. Does the competition offer Food, Beer, Wine, or Hard Liquor, and could you offer the same.
Where to start is with a Business Consultant who can tell you honestly if you have a Chinks Chance in Hell of lasting 12, 24, or 36 months in Business. Than you will be Married to that business 7 x 24 x 365 for as long as you wish to be a Boss, Owner, or what ever it is you wish to call yourself.
Being in business for yourself can be rewarding, or one terrible experience...
Is someone smoking dope around here. We just opened a new room in September, 5000 sq ft with 12 tables and a proshop. If you tried to put 20 tables in that space you would be stacking them on top of ech other. As for the food and beverage we serve neither and have been profitable since day one.
Marketing is the overwhelming factor and failure because of not having food or beer is just someone fooling themselves for lack of being able to run a business. Also, don't plan to ake any money out for at least 18 to 24 months while you get established. Futhermore cater to the bangers they are your money makers, players are great to have but will try to get every freebee that they can hustle.
Any other info fell free to PM me.
Marketing is the overwhelming factor and failure because of not having food or beer is just someone fooling themselves for lack of being able to run a business. Also, don't plan to ake any money out for at least 18 to 24 months while you get established. Futhermore cater to the bangers they are your money makers, players are great to have but will try to get every freebee that they can hustle.
Any other info fell free to PM me.
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PoolSleuth
Banned
rackem said:
This is in Bell Flower? Or another Hard Times...?
sixpack said:
"Quinn's" was before my time here - it later became "The Rack", and fairly recently, shut down. Someone I met who knows the owner said the guy just got tired of dealing with it, or somesuch. Hence, my renewed interest in opening a room in Boulder - with The Rack gone, there's only one half-decent spot left in town, and it's only half-decent.
I'm not too worried about being walking distance from CU, if there's enough parking - most college kids here have cars, it seems, from looking at the number of out-of-state plates on cars every day during the school year.
The most important factor!
Bar none it is the rent. If you can buy the building rather than rent you will be way ahead of the game. In most cases your monthly payments would be less than your lease. A lot depends on what part of the country you live in. Why is it so important? Because to be in the pool business you are sacrificing a lot of income per sq. foot as pool tables take up so much room. For example if you have a 20 table room you are limited to the income you have. At the most on a Fri. or Sat. night your maximum inmcome would be about $900 at $9 an h0ur between 9 and 2 a.m. I use that because those are the hours you will be the most busy. All the other hours will be basically slow. On weeknights figure half of that. Now if you used that same space for a nightclub then on Fri. and Sat. night you would take in at least 5 times that because of the amount of people you can accomadate. Now if you do not have any kind of liquor you are just giving money away. You would be a fool if you can have it not to. Your monthly income would double less the amount you pay for the liquor. That is why you need other means of income i.e. video games, food, t.v's to bring in bar patrons who do not play pool to watch sports. You must also know that the months of Aug. Sept. and Oct. can be very slow months no matter what part of the country you are from. Hot, end of summer, school starts, people thinking of xmas in Oct. It can get real bad.
If you get caught up in paying too much rent you will not last long. You must have safegaurds that will guarantee your rent will be stable for years with raises no more than cost of living. That is why if you can buy go for it.
Bar none it is the rent. If you can buy the building rather than rent you will be way ahead of the game. In most cases your monthly payments would be less than your lease. A lot depends on what part of the country you live in. Why is it so important? Because to be in the pool business you are sacrificing a lot of income per sq. foot as pool tables take up so much room. For example if you have a 20 table room you are limited to the income you have. At the most on a Fri. or Sat. night your maximum inmcome would be about $900 at $9 an h0ur between 9 and 2 a.m. I use that because those are the hours you will be the most busy. All the other hours will be basically slow. On weeknights figure half of that. Now if you used that same space for a nightclub then on Fri. and Sat. night you would take in at least 5 times that because of the amount of people you can accomadate. Now if you do not have any kind of liquor you are just giving money away. You would be a fool if you can have it not to. Your monthly income would double less the amount you pay for the liquor. That is why you need other means of income i.e. video games, food, t.v's to bring in bar patrons who do not play pool to watch sports. You must also know that the months of Aug. Sept. and Oct. can be very slow months no matter what part of the country you are from. Hot, end of summer, school starts, people thinking of xmas in Oct. It can get real bad.
If you get caught up in paying too much rent you will not last long. You must have safegaurds that will guarantee your rent will be stable for years with raises no more than cost of living. That is why if you can buy go for it.
I did a search for a similar thread because I had posted a lot of ideas before and didn't want to let them go to waste. Everyone had a lot of great suggestions on there for anyone wanting to open up a pool business.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=19583&highlight=business+fish+bowl
The most important thing is to treat all players right and with integrity. The players may not bring in as much as the bangers, but they should both be catered to. You may want to designate a special table with good cloth and tighter pockets just for gambling matches that draw crowds.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=19583&highlight=business+fish+bowl
The most important thing is to treat all players right and with integrity. The players may not bring in as much as the bangers, but they should both be catered to. You may want to designate a special table with good cloth and tighter pockets just for gambling matches that draw crowds.
Profit percentages
The BCA did a study about 5 years ago I think. They had surveyed a lot of billiard parlors trying to find out what the typical pool room was in terms of prices and profits etc. I would try and find a copy of that study. They will charge you for it if you are not a member but maybe someone on here has a copy? I do remember one big statistic. (approximate numbers based solely on my memory) They said about 70% of pool rooms got their number one source of PROFIT off alcohol, 25% off retail sales (pro shop, cues, etc.) and only 5% of pool rooms number one source of profit income came from playing pool. Most of my company's income comes from retail sales of pool tables and cues, etc. I know that if our building was not paid off, we would have shut down our billiard parlor years ago. It accounts for about 7% of our income and about 95% of our headaches. I am giving the benefit of the doubt on the 95% number. It feels much higher at times. For MOST, not all, billiard parlors, food and alcohol is necessary. Its hard to pay $8,000 in rent, $3,000 in electric and $5,000 in wages every month before you rent your first table at $4.15/ hour. I would also suggest a few cases of cheap cues. Nothing over $100. These will have faster turnarounds on sales. Most beginners don't want a nice playing cue, they want one that LOOKS nice. Same goes for dart supplies. Lots of cheap darts, flights, replacement tips. One big glass case will give you more profit than 3 pool tables in the room. Got all that? lol.
Now..just be in good enough shape to work about 80 hours a week for the next 3 years and you will have a good start I think. Best of luck!
The BCA did a study about 5 years ago I think. They had surveyed a lot of billiard parlors trying to find out what the typical pool room was in terms of prices and profits etc. I would try and find a copy of that study. They will charge you for it if you are not a member but maybe someone on here has a copy? I do remember one big statistic. (approximate numbers based solely on my memory) They said about 70% of pool rooms got their number one source of PROFIT off alcohol, 25% off retail sales (pro shop, cues, etc.) and only 5% of pool rooms number one source of profit income came from playing pool. Most of my company's income comes from retail sales of pool tables and cues, etc. I know that if our building was not paid off, we would have shut down our billiard parlor years ago. It accounts for about 7% of our income and about 95% of our headaches. I am giving the benefit of the doubt on the 95% number. It feels much higher at times.
For MOST, not all, billiard parlors, food and alcohol is necessary. Its hard to pay $8,000 in rent, $3,000 in electric and $5,000 in wages every month before you rent your first table at $4.15/ hour. I would also suggest a few cases of cheap cues. Nothing over $100. These will have faster turnarounds on sales. Most beginners don't want a nice playing cue, they want one that LOOKS nice. Same goes for dart supplies. Lots of cheap darts, flights, replacement tips. One big glass case will give you more profit than 3 pool tables in the room. Got all that? lol. Now..just be in good enough shape to work about 80 hours a week for the next 3 years and you will have a good start I think. Best of luck!
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I have given this some thought in the past and I think the most important thing is don't try to start on the cheap. This is similiar to what OHB said in having enough to go without any income for the first year. I agree with that, but I also think that you should plan to open a semi-premier place and not just a place that you can afford. Proper planning is essential.DelaWho??? said:
I think that the non-smoking laws that are proliferating the different states is a phenomenal opportunity for new rooms, particularly if they are looking to build. If a person plans their expenses properly they should plan to have a separate section for smokers to adhere to the smoking laws, whether they are in affect or not, because they will be in the future. I think that this could be a huge benefit to new room owners in the future, assuming they are willing to invest properly. JMHO.
BCA Survey
I found the survey I was writing about on BCAstore website. It is only $9.95 and they have a couple other information books etc for sale. If anyone owning or wanting to own a billiard parlor is interested.
I found the survey I was writing about on BCAstore website. It is only $9.95 and they have a couple other information books etc for sale. If anyone owning or wanting to own a billiard parlor is interested.
I hope you find the study,cause I disagree
If you get 70% profit on alcohol sales then you own a bar with a couple of tables not a pool room with a bar. Pool is all profit. (except for upkeep)
Alcohol costs you a fortune plus you pay taxes on the sales. No tax on pool. I have been in business for 30 years and one thing is always consistent. Pool sales equal all other sales of alcohol, food, soda and snacks. So if I take in $500 in pool I will take in 500 in all other sales. All the other stuff cost me money to stock. About one third. $166. So somebody is quoting those numbers out of context or skewed that way.
I agree with your other points though. Coincidentally we sold about 4 less than $100 cues in 2 days this week. Its like everything else it seems to go in streaks including business. It is funny in a pool room you can have 12 tables going and 10 minutes later there is nobody there. They seem to all come and once and leave at once. Oh well
cueandcushion said:The BCA did a study about 5 years ago I think. They had surveyed a lot of billiard parlors trying to find out what the typical pool room was in terms of prices and profits etc. I would try and find a copy of that study. They will charge you for it if you are not a member but maybe someone on here has a copy? I do remember one big statistic. (approximate numbers based solely on my memory) They said about 70% of pool rooms got their number one source of PROFIT off alcohol, 25% off retail sales (pro shop, cues, etc.) and only 5% of pool rooms number one source of profit income came from playing pool. Most of my company's income comes from retail sales of pool tables and cues, etc. I know that if our building was not paid off, we would have shut down our billiard parlor years ago. It accounts for about 7% of our income and about 95% of our headaches. I am giving the benefit of the doubt on the 95% number. It feels much higher at times.
Now..just be in good enough shape to work about 80 hours a week for the next 3 years$5 and you will have a good start I think. Best of luck!
If you get 70% profit on alcohol sales then you own a bar with a couple of tables not a pool room with a bar. Pool is all profit. (except for upkeep)
Alcohol costs you a fortune plus you pay taxes on the sales. No tax on pool. I have been in business for 30 years and one thing is always consistent. Pool sales equal all other sales of alcohol, food, soda and snacks. So if I take in $500 in pool I will take in 500 in all other sales. All the other stuff cost me money to stock. About one third. $166. So somebody is quoting those numbers out of context or skewed that way.
I agree with your other points though. Coincidentally we sold about 4 less than $100 cues in 2 days this week. Its like everything else it seems to go in streaks including business. It is funny in a pool room you can have 12 tables going and 10 minutes later there is nobody there. They seem to all come and once and leave at once. Oh well