"race to 5 is a JOKE!" by Allison Fisher

I agree with Willie B wholeheartedly about 9ball itself being silly, after all it was a shorter version of rotation created specifically for back room gambling, like ring games, and was originally played with cueball in hand behind the headstring, not anywhere on the table :)

I personally feel that the REAL pool games that should be played in tournaments, especially world championship events, Straight Pool, Full Rack Banks, 1 Pocket and maybe 8Ball, If they're gonna play 9Ball, then at least it should be decent length races and winner break, alternate break just takes the enjoyment out of pool.

Willie
 
Its been a while since I played on the regional tours, but I do remember that everybody is responsible for the shots they make and they are also responsible for the shots that they miss. If you lose your match, shake your opponent's hand & congratulate them. Unscrew your cue without bytching about it & go get a cheeseburger and move on with your life. Lagging at 0-0, everybody has a fair chance at getting to 5 games or 7 or 9. If you don't get there first then you should blame yourself, not the tournament format. You either win or you lose. That's life. Some players experience one more than the other. When they get beat it stings a little bit more. :) Then again, I don't know anything about pool anyway so I'll shut up. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: sjm
i agree johnny but she's top notch and everyone is goin to criticize. I don't know why they can't look at her opinion professionally.
 
Here's a stat for you.

Southpaw said:
Well the race to 5 format is definitely for TV purposes and I think the alternate break actually favors Allison, especially against someone like Jasmin that has a great break. But, realistically, how often are you gonna see a player break and run 5 racks if its winner breaks? More times in the mens tournies than the ladies. I have watched Jasmin play since she was 16 and she is gonna be the #1 ladies player in a few years. Maybe Allison sees this too and is a little troubled by it.

Southpaw
Click to expand...
Given 11 breaks, the average male pro will make a ball only 4 times. Not sure what it is for the ladies.
 
enzo said:
yeah, people that constantly win and then complain the moment things arent going their way are hideous and damage the sport..
Click to expand...

enzo,
In all fairness to Allison, this is NOT the first time short races have been criticized. This issue has been one that the WPBA has wrestled with for a long time.

Allison, Jeanette, Karen, and others have been critical of the shorter races, alternating breaks, and skewed formats for a long time. Just because you have not been aware of it, does NOT mean someone is complaining the "moment things aren't going their way." These players have been opposed to things that reduce their competitive advantage for a long time (even when things "were going their way") I think they see them as things that cheapen the sport (IF the purpose is to truly identify the best player - if it's just entertainment then........never mind). I also think they believe that the sport would be better with longer races and true double elimination.

Also remember she was responding to an interviewer; and much of this may be a bit out of context. I am sure if you ask Allison after her next victory, she will still think short races are silly - perhaps that will carry more weight.
 
Last edited:
I never liked the alternating break format

I never liked the alternating break format. I feel you should only
have to relinquish control of the table after a miss or a safety.

I did not see the match where Allison made that comment, so
I'd rather not say anything about her remarks yet.

Back to the format, one place I gamble at now and then, has a
house rule where the winner of the set gets the first break in the
next set. It took me a while to get used to that one, and most
folks play want to play races to 5 also.
 
sjm said:
A race to five with alternate break IS PLENTY LONG ENOUGH in a round robin, in both men's and women's pool. There's little evidence that this format has stopped the cream from rising to the top at the men's or women's world championships.

Allison Fisher, the very best women's nine ball player of all time, simply played way below her usual speed. At this event, she won 17 racks of the 40 she played, so she wasn't done in by the format, just by playing below her usual speed.
Click to expand...
Yes, there was a minimum of 25, max of 45 games played by every player in the RR phase. Plenty long enough to make fair comparisons.
 
straybullet said:
If you lose your match, shake your opponent's hand & congratulate them. Unscrew your cue without bytching about it & go get a cheeseburger and move on with your life.
Click to expand...
Rallyburger with Cheese - 490 calories
 
Darn, people just wanna complain if they drew the shorter stick as if the rule only to them and another rule applies their opponent.
 
jay helfert said:
Even with alternate breaks, it is just to short a race, especially for a player who has gone to considerable expense to get there. Race to seven is already short enough.
Click to expand...

I'm totally with you on this Jay. High caliber events are designed to remove luck and let the cream and the skill rise to the top. It "is" a joke, and who better to make that statement than a prior many times world snooker champion.
Personally I would never travel to a tourney out of state if the race was too small. The larger the race or the table size the farther I would drive, because the chances of my skill rising to the top were increased and luck was not as much a factor.
I was against the winner break for the IPT qualifiers, why, because there were allot of 5's 6's and 7's being run in 8-ball on a big table. It was a huge expense to travel and pay $2K and not get to the table.
Maybe they should play the Masters in Agusta GA only 9-holes each day.
The game and the players only evolve with a quality, pressure packed draining lengthy match with the ebbs and flows of each player during its course.
The Joke is on the event organizer, the sport is not laughing,.
 
I think 9 ball is a game the has to be played in longer format. There is so much luck in the game and there has been seemingly no effort to amend the rules of the game to even out that luck.

A race to 17 winner breaks is in my opinion the optimal format for 9 ball. You can't say the person who won a 17 frame match just got a few lucky rolls. But you can definitely say that for a race to 5.

I do agree that the cream will rise to the top for just about any format, but what about the cream of the cream of the crop? Roger Federer wins just about every event because the format is such that the best player will always win.

A race to 5 is like changing the tennis format to a single 6 game set. I highly doubt Federer would have won as many tournaments as he has if they did that. But for any tennis official, it would be madness to make such a change. They make the matches longer for the major tournaments to ensure that the best player will win.

This notion of purposely creating a format that allows for upsets is insane. This is suppost to be a sport. How can other people take the game seriously if the promoters don't take it seriously. Of course we wan't good tv, but we should leave that up to the players. Ronnie O'Sullivan created good tv by running a 147 in 5 minutes, Wu created good tv by running the last 5 racks to win the World Championship at age 16, Pagualyan created good tv by winning the world title 17-12 after being down 11-5.

All of these stupid gimmicks and ridiculous formats seems to suggest that the promoters do not feel the game can be marketed as just pool. So they have to have to create gimmicks (pool parties, skins matches, texas holdem billiard(?)) and engineer drama and upsets.
 
It was a heat of the moment situation.

Please be nice. Allison was responding with a microphone in her face moments after she had failed to make the cut for the first time ever in this event.

That stings. And she knows that were it not for the easy pockets then she would have won a LOT more of the games that she lost. Even a player as talented as Allison can only watch when her opponents are shooting shots that would miss on any other table and making them.

Allison is very gracious and she signs autographs endlessly for the fans here. Given the intensity of the moment I think she can be allowed to voice her opinion without crucifixion. Critique, allright, but don't for a second think that Allie is anything like Strickland in the character department.
 
In a race to five, it is entirely possible for a player to win the lag and run five racks. Alternating breaks at least gives the players a chance to get to the table amd make the match competitive. Would you want to travel, pay entry fees, and never get a shot?

So long as a rack can be won by fluking in the 9, it will be a game with a huge element of luck. Marcus Chamat made three golden breaks in World Pool Masters against Mika, and in a fourth rack, the nine was the first ball down. Making the 9 a called shot would change things considerably - no more serendipity.
 
Good points! call 9 would be a good rule, so would the "old style" rules of push out 9 ball, but if you think the Filipinos play good now....I think they would be even stronger at push-out because it's more like rotation.

The other point I forgot to make about this thread, and sorry if someone else did, but the players were aware of the format BEFORE making arrangements to go to the event right?

Gerry
 
John Barton said:
Please be nice. Allison was responding with a microphone in her face moments after she had failed to make the cut for the first time ever in this event.

That stings. And she knows that were it not for the easy pockets then she would have won a LOT more of the games that she lost. Even a player as talented as Allison can only watch when her opponents are shooting shots that would miss on any other table and making them.

Allison is very gracious and she signs autographs endlessly for the fans here. Given the intensity of the moment I think she can be allowed to voice her opinion without crucifixion. Critique, allright, but don't for a second think that Allie is anything like Strickland in the character department.
Click to expand...

I agree. Allison was only voicing what many people have known to be true for years. In truth, it wasn't the most gracious post-loss comment one could make, but it certainly doesn't merit being put on the rack! Allison, as far as I've seen, has consistently been a classy role model and representative of the sport, and I don't think that this statement changes that in the least.
 
Cameron Smith said:
A race to 5 is like changing the tennis format to a single 6 game set. I highly doubt Federer would have won as many tournaments as he has if they did that.
Click to expand...

Remember, losing the race to five in pool doesn't eliminate you. If you win three out of five in the round robin, you live to play on. Losing three out of five sets is not something Federer does, so I'd guess he'd win just as many titles if tennis adopted this format.

Why is everyone writing about this format as if one loss in a race to five means instant elimination. Unless you lose fifteen racks in the round robin, you play on. It's really not a very tall order, and it's one that, time and time again, has rarely presented a challenge for the most elite at either the men's or women's World Pool Championships.
 
Forget about who said that the race to five format sucks. as pool players, what can we say about that format? as for me, I don't like the idea of B players advancing thru the finals by winning short races due to luck. then watch 'em play on the final table playing the most common display of skill of 9-ball game or probably play sucker 9-ball. that would be a rip-off to the very good pool players and spectators who wanted to watch a spectacular display of skills rather than watching kiddie stuffs. RIP OFF !
 
What do you think the sponser of the event is thinking? One of the participants gets knocked out, then criticizes the format after winning only 17 out of 40 games!

By signing on to the event, aren't you accepting the terms set by the folks running the show?

In a similar fashion, It drives me nuts when a poolroom owner decides to host a tournament and then gets complaints from the losers about how bad the conditions were - tables, lighting, balls, noise, whatever. Signing on to the event should be an implied contract meaning the at you are accepting the conditions set in place, much like rules 1.1 (Player Responsibility) and 1.2 (Acceptance of the Equipment) in the BCA rulebook.

We all like Allison, but I think she slipped up on this one.
 
8ballEinstein said:
We all like Allison, but I think she slipped up on this one.
Click to expand...

We've had our share of great players complain to us directly after a lost fight in a tournament we organize. I truly understand what John says about saying something in the heat of the moment. If you had a reality videocam for these moments, they can be downright embarassing at times.

Though I've never met her, Allison strikes me as a class act through and through, attending the matches down to the closing ceremonies after losing badly in a tourney is a great gesture to the fans and her peers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top