Rack Mechanics

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I'm really up to here of hearing about the problems with the racking at tournaments. I can understand why a lot of the pros become rack mechanics. They're doing it for a living. If someone is doing it against them they need to be able to do it back to even things out, so I don't blame them.

I can't see why there can't be a $4.00 per entry to pay rack boys. For the average 30 to 40 player tournament I would think two teens 14-16 year olds would be plenty. That would put an end to the racking problems and let a few teens make some pocket money. Johnnyt
 
I see this even at my meager level.

$5 a set or some penny ante local tournament... you break and run out one time and they lay the slug on you.

They almost act indignant like it was just "playing defense".

Very sportsmanlike.

9-ball is too easy to juice the rack into a stopper if you play loser racks, and too easy to rack the corner ball for yourself if you play rack your own.
 
Johnnyt said:
I'm really up to here of hearing about the problems with the racking at tournaments. I can understand why a lot of the pros become rack mechanics. They're doing it for a living. If someone is doing it against them they need to be able to do it back to even things out, so I don't blame them.

I can't see why there can't be a $4.00 per entry to pay rack boys. For the average 30 to 40 player tournament I would think two teens 14-16 year olds would be plenty. That would put an end to the racking problems and let a few teens make some pocket money. Johnnyt
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until someone makes a deal with the rackboy and you start getting slugged... i think rack your own is the only fair way to go
 
I've noticed that when it is 'rack your own' that the better players seem to have problems getting a good rack and usually slug themselves.

The older players can't even see if the one ball is touching the rack.

When someone does make a 9 ball on the break, that usually sparks the opponent's interest in checking the rack, but I doubt but only a very few in our area know how to rig the rack.



Neil said:
Out of curiosity, how many of you that play 'rack your own' ever check your opponents racks? And if you usually don't, how do you know he's not giving himself a stacked rack?
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IMO, just playing rack your own & spot the money ball on the break solves it. That way, I don't care what he's doing to his rack; as long as he's not blatantly tilting the rack, he can pretty much do whatever he wants as far as I'm concerned.

Personally, I wouldn't want a kid who can't run 2 balls to rack for me, even if he's racking for my opponent too. It's a good idea because it makes it fair, but I think we'd both just end up stuck with a bunch of bad racks, which makes the game less fun than it could be, IMO. :(
 
Neil said:
Out of curiosity, how many of you that play 'rack your own' ever check your opponents racks? And if you usually don't, how do you know he's not giving himself a stacked rack?
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If the same ball goes in the same pocket 3 times in a row they start checking. But it's too late they already lost the set. Fixing the rack is cheating, plain and simple. This has got to be the only sport/game that players take this garbage. Even in chess if guy is caught cheating the guy he is playing decks his ass...or should. Johnnyt
 
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Cuebacca said:
IMO, just playing rack your own & spot the money ball on the break solves it. That way, I don't care what he's doing to his rack; as long as he's not blatantly tilting the rack, he can pretty much do whatever he wants as far as I'm concerned.

Personally, I wouldn't want a kid who can't run 2 balls to rack for me, even if he's racking for my opponent too. It's a good idea because it makes it fair, but I think we'd both just end up stuck with a bunch of bad racks, which makes the game less fun than it could be, IMO. :(
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Racking is not that hard to teach. Make sure the #1 is on the spot, all balls touching, and the #1 ball lined up with the back ball so the rack isn't tilted. I can't think of anything else they'd need to know. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
Racking is not that hard to teach. Make sure the #1 is on the spot, all balls touching, and the #1 ball lined up with the back ball so the rack isn't tilted. I can't think of anything else they'd need to know. Johnnyt
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I think getting all the balls touching is pretty tough a lot of times. But I will concede that if the kid can get them close enough that the balls get moving, I'd probably be OK with that since the other guy is getting the same rack.

The problem with 9-ball though is that if 100% of the balls are frozen, the wing ball is virtually automatic. Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets explains why, based on how the energy flows through the rack.

So if one guy gets a really good rack, he's virtually guaranteed to make the wing ball, while if the other guy gets just an OK rack, he has to rely making one of the later balls as they are slowing down, if you will.

It doesn't require a "rigged" rack to make the wing ball like people once thought. That's why people are now saying that 9-ball is broken.
 
I always spend as much time as necessary to make a tight rack for both myself and opponent. I can't say the same is done for me which does irritate me quite a bit. Breaking into a dead rack is one of my pet peeves.

I remember playing one person recently where I won the first rack. When I walked by the rack to get chalk I noticed that he racked me off. For some reason it clicked in my head that it was a possible 8 on the break for some reason....which is exactly what I got. He racked me good after that.
 
said this before

When someone is trying to slug rack me or even before I will look the rack over carefully and for several minutes if necessary until the other player asks if there is a problem or if I want a rerack.

"nope, just looking for things to take advantage of."

Tends to make for very careful racks afterwards.

Hu
 
Cuebacca said:
I think getting all the balls touching is pretty tough a lot of times. But I will concede that if the kid can get them close enough that the balls get moving, I'd probably be OK with that since the other guy is getting the same rack.

The problem with 9-ball though is that if 100% of the balls are frozen, the wing ball is virtually automatic. Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets explains why, based on how the energy flows through the rack.

So if one guy gets a really good rack, he's virtually guaranteed to make the wing ball, while if the other guy gets just an OK rack, he has to rely making one of the later balls as they are slowing down, if you will.

It doesn't require a "rigged" rack to make the wing ball like people once thought. That's why people are now saying that 9-ball is broken.
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Maybe that's why I've been seeing it racked forward on the pro tour lately. Instead of the 1 ball on the spot they rack it forward so the 9 is on the spot. I haven't tried playing that yet....I'll hafta remember to give it a try this week when I'm off work.
 
I must be missing something

I was setting up a money game with a guy a couple weeks ago. He was insistent that we play rack your own. Knowing just a bit about rack rigging made me suspicious. I would have accepted this stipulation (had he not been a no-show on the pre-arranged day and time) but I'd have watched his every rack like a hawk. I just sensed the chance, however slight, that on any opportunity this basically unknown player might rig one on me.

If it's loser rack, I'm going to watch my opponent rack closely as well, although perhaps not as close on every rack.

Back to my question... If a player is insistent on playing rack your own, is it because there's a good chance they may be a mechanic???

What am I missing, that perhaps others here are missing too? :confused:
 
The last one I let rack is the guy I'm playing. If I don't know the guy I start off cheap anyway. If he gives me a slug rack I just walk after that set or game. Johnnyt
 
FL pro tour does not get enough press or appreciation for the rules they've laid out. Please, please someone do a comparison to one of their tournaments to a 9 ball tournament of similiar stature and I'll lay 5-1 odds on arguements and racking time.
Once again, the 9 ball rack is a flawed configuration which plays to big of a part between top players and the 10 ball rack does not (well it could but not by their rules). 10 ball produces better play and less conflicts!
Please do your part to speed up the switch.
 
Some guys hate playing "rack your own" because they are so used to slugging the rack that they can't give themselves a good rack.
 
I was watching a regional tour event one weekend, and the rack riggers were in full force. One participant made the 9-ball on the break five times in a row. I asked the tournament director about it, stating that it seemed like blatant rack-rigging, and his response to me was that if the opponent does not check the rack, then it is the opponent's fault that he got cheated.

At a Super Billiards Expo pro tournament, I was standing outside smoking a cigarette, when one of the competitors came out, very pissed off. He said his opponent was trying to rig the rack on him, and that he was rigging the rack right back on him. The referees didn't seem to be able to stop them from rigging, and it took longer to rack each game than it did to shoot the balls in the hole.

There is one well-known pro player who is highly regarded in professional circles still today who has the reputation for being the "best rack mechanic." He is also the most vocal when he is being racked against in all tournaments I have witnessed.

Bowlers don't rack their own pins in competition, and pool players should not rack their own racks either. Rack-rigging is nothing more than cheating, much like playing poker with a marked deck of cards, IMHO. :confused:

Maybe players should use magnifying glasses to check the racks. :thumbup:
 

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JAM said:
I was watching a regional tour event one weekend, and the rack riggers were in full force. One participant made the 9-ball on the break five times in a row. I asked the tournament director about it, stating that it seemed like blatant rack-rigging, and his response to me was that if the opponent does not check the rack, then it is the opponent's fault that he got cheated.

At a Super Billiards Expo pro tournament, I was standing outside smoking a cigarette, when one of the competitors came out, very pissed off. He said his opponent was trying to rig the rack on him, and that he was rigging the rack right back on him. The referees didn't seem to be able to stop them from rigging, and it took longer to rack each game than it did to shoot the balls in the hole.

There is one well-known pro player who is highly regarded in professional circles still today who has the reputation for being the "best rack mechanic." He is also the most vocal when he is being racked against in all tournaments I have witnessed.

Bowlers don't rack their own pins in competition, and pool players should not rack their own racks either. Rack-rigging is nothing more than cheating, much like playing poker with a marked deck of cards, IMHO. :confused:

Maybe players should use magnifying glasses to check the racks. :thumbup:
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JAM,

That rack mechanic you are referring to according to Buddy's book is Johnny Archer. I mean, I don't think it is a secret. I've heard he is the best at it. Personally....I think that is kind of a cool skill to have and it doesn't make me think any less of him. Just comes with the territory. If you check your opponents rack then you never have anything to worry about.

I've heard Buddy Hall compliment Nick Varner on his patience and discipline regarding giving his opponent a good rack or checking and ensuring he gets a good rack.

I've also watched good players observe how a table plays and say they now knew how to give a fair - but defensive rack. Interesting stuff.

Sometimes though....what looks like a slug can actually give you a reward if you know where to hit the rack!

Cool thread.

Matt
 
Matt_24 said:
JAM,

That rack mechanic you are referring to according to Buddy's book is Johnny Archer. I mean, I don't think it is a secret. I've heard he is the best at it....
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I did not know that this topic was mentioned in Buddy's book. I had never read the book, but thanks for letting me know about it. Now I want to read it! :smile:

I was not referring to Archer, however! :p
 
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