Rack your own: Feathering the head ball...cheating?

[GideonF]

Anyone touching the balls in the manner you describe is trying to do something. Ga-ron-teed.

I disagree with that blanket statement. Yes, it can be a move for the reasons described, but it can also just be someone trying to get a finicky one ball to freeze.

As an example, I was watching a money game in the Philippines last night (on vacation) and the ref - who told me he was Warren Kiamco's brother - was touching the one ball on the 10 ball rack from time to time - not a single word of complaint from the players.

Gideon

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

www.breakmechanic.com

Thanks buddy! I can't wait for this DVD to be released! Any idea how long this website has been up?

 

[Bank it]

No, I don't.

 

[Poolhall60561]

I keep hoping that there are no secrets in pool. Maybe Joe Tucker needs to write another book.

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

I keep hoping that there are no secrets in pool. Maybe Joe Tucker needs to write another book.

I have a feeling Joe Tucker's racking secrets are only the tip of iceburg. When you play pro speed the break usually determines whether or not you will run the rack. At that level you must learn as many ways as possible to eliminate the randomness.

The younger pros that grew up playing rack your own seem to realize the importance of the rack a lot more than the veterans.

And since the pro's are mostly the ones who have all of the racking knowledge, they are less likely to reveal any of the inside secrets because it decreases their chances of winning tournaments. However, if an amateur gets a hold of all the secrets they would have more of an incentive to release a DVD or book to sell that knowledge.

 

[mattkenefick]

Re#2- I have always felt a gap between the 2nd row balls left a bit of a slug rack.

That said. Anyone touching the balls in the manner you describe is trying to do something. Ga-ron-teed.

I feel like this is one of the worst things about pool. For some reason, everything thinks everyone is cheating.

For me, I don't care if the rack is loose, tight, gap here, etc... If I touched it after the rank was removed, it's cause something was off, no cheating. I don't need to cheat.

"It looked like the cueball hit the other ball first." It didn't, but fine whatever, I don't care. I'll just run em out after you miss or in the next round.

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

I feel like this is one of the worst things about pool. For some reason, everything thinks everyone is cheating.

For me, I don't care if the rack is loose, tight, gap here, etc... If I touched it after the rank was removed, it's cause something was off, no cheating. I don't need to cheat.

"It looked like the cueball hit the other ball first." It didn't, but fine whatever, I don't care. I'll just run em out after you miss or in the next round.

I don't agree with that statement either. You can touch the balls after the rack is removed but I'm just trying to figure out how much is too much.

Personally, I consider myself very good at racking. If I take the rack away and the head ball rolls forward I don't see how feathering it back will ever get it to stay in place unless you tap it down (which I never do). So that's why I've never understood the need to try to feather the ball back into the rack. If you are truly just feathering it then it will just roll back out. In order to hold the head ball in place you need friction between the surrounding balls. By feathering it back you aren't creating any friction so it's just going to roll off again.

Unless...you are doing this for another reason as stated earlier in this post. However, I don't fully understand which gaps people are trying to create in order to wire the wing ball. If I completely understood the manipulation, I would know how to differentiate between fixing a rolled off ball and manipulating the rack in your favor. It would also help me identify a dead wing ball based a normal rack that happens to have the same favorable gaps.

I wish "Bank It" would give us some of his "two pages of rack mechanic tricks"

 

[Skippy27]

I disagree with that blanket statement. Yes, it can be a move for the reasons described, but it can also just be someone trying to get a finicky one ball to freeze.

Gideon

That could be, so put the rack back on and try again.

 

[Corwyn_8]

The difference being in other sports they have RULES to prevent this from happening.

There is a rule:

6.6 Touched Ball
It is a foul to touch, move or change the path of any object ball except by the normal ball-to-ball contacts during shots. It is a foul to touch, move or change the path of the cue ball except when it is in hand or by the normal tip-to-ball forward stroke contact of a shot. The shooter is responsible for the equipment he controls at the table, such as chalk, bridges, clothing, his hair, parts of his body, and the cue ball when it is in hand, that may be involved in such fouls. If such a foul is accidental, it is a standard foul, but if it is intentional, it is 6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct.

 

[Straightpool_99]

I'm not talking about pro tournaments. I'm talking about ALL tournaments. I see this done everywhere, in every tournament I've ever played in. I'd rather just start doing it myself than argue with everyone I play about it. If it's not specifically banned then we should assume it's legal, right?. Just like pattern racking.

I'm surprised no one else has any other theories on what is going on when you feather the head ball back. That was the major point of this post. I'd like to get a better understanding of what is actually going on and what to look out for.

It's taken all the fun out of competitive 9 and 10 ball for me. I'm sticking to straight pool and snooker these days. I'm a pool player, not a trick shot artist. It should be about the stroking, not the racking. Apparently I'm very much in the minority on this, as everyone seem to think that it is "part of the game", sigh.

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

It's taken all the fun out of competitive 9 and 10 ball for me. I'm sticking to straight pool and snooker these days. I'm a pool player, not a trick shot artist. It should be about the stroking, not the racking. Apparently I'm very much in the minority on this, as everyone seem to think that it is "part of the game", sigh.

Well, that's your loss. The truth is, these things happen everyday. If you ever want to be able to compete at a high level you will need to learn these tricks to keep up(or stop them). I don't see how moving to straight pool and snooker is going to solve anything.

With all the pool knowledge on this forum I'm surprised no one ever reveals anything further than the Joe Tucker stuff.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

They should invent a new pool table.
When racking the balls, when the rack is removed and the player then goes and touches the 1 ball to pull the "see if it is frozen" move, a panel opens up and out pops a robotic arm wielding a machete, THAT CHOPS THE PLAYERS FINGERS OFF!


end of problem

 

[tucson9ball]

There is a rule:

The rule you are referring to is after the break.

Racking the balls does require your hands to be touching the balls until somebody invents a new gadget.

I have no problem with somebody feathering the 1 ball, but I do reserve the right to look at the balls every time they get touched. If the rack does not pass my inspection, well......rerack and try again. If I see gaps it's very simple to have them rerack the balls.

Some people either don't know or are too lazy to check their opponents rack. This also applies to pattern racking.

 

[CreeDo]

If you watch Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets,
you'll understand why making gaps can be helpful.

That being said, in 9-ball the wing ball is "wired" on a perfectly tight rack,
if you can break from the side rail or if you cut break at the right angle.
If there's a magic rack and no gaps, it's fairly easy to make the wing ball
from a wide variety of angles and speeds.

There's no reason to create a gap artificially unless you don't want to cut break,
and you're forced to break from the box. In that case, a gap might allow you to
hit the one square in the face, and still make the wing ball.

At one point people were complaining that Shane was doing this in one of his US Open wins...
he was hitting square, very hard (like his 10b break) from within the box, and drilling the wing ball.

I believe this can only happen with a gap, and Joe Tucker posted something to that effect.
Whether the gap was created by shane, or was just how the table wanted to rack that day,
I dunno.

Creating a gap intentionally is not an easy way to guarantee a wing ball, the size of the gap and angle
of hit both can have an effect, IMO it's actually easier and more predictable to make the wing
ball with a tight rack. But that doesn't mean someone isn't trying it anyway.

For ten ball, rubbing the head ball does create a split between the 2nd row balls.
I only tried it once and it DID seem to make the 2nd row balls go more easily.
So it's possible the rubbing motion is intended to make that gap.

It's not required, but without the gap it seems like you need to hit 'em like Shane
(fairly hard, square, starting a little off from the center) to make the 2nd row balls go.

It's a much more challenging break to master, and it wouldn't surprise me if
some players are desperate enough to try to create a helpful gap.

 

[Black-Balled]

You are gonna start doing it, and you inquire about what what is going on in the same post? Doesnt sound lime it is gonna work too well for you.
and i think manipulation of the rack is prohibited by the rules.not enforced, i admit, but technically not allowed.

I'm not talking about pro tournaments. I'm talking about ALL tournaments. I see this done everywhere, in every tournament I've ever played in. I'd rather just start doing it myself than argue with everyone I play about it. If it's not specifically banned then we should assume it's legal, right?. Just like pattern racking.

I'm surprised no one else has any other theories on what is going on when you feather the head ball back. That was the major point of this post. I'd like to get a better understanding of what is actually going on and what to look out for.

 

[maha]

for the top tier of players 9 ball is nothing more than a game of breaking with the present rules.

i am leaning toward forcing a pushout after the break and alternate breaks so it becomes a game of playing pool rather than learning a trick shot and trick rack.

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

So I messed around with the geometry of the rack and figured out what's going on.

1. Move head ball as far down and left as possible while still being on the spot.
2. Twist the rack so that the line on the bottom of the rack is off by about 1 inch.
3. Feather the head ball back to create a 1/2 centimeter gap between the two second row balls

Do all this right and the wing ball can't stay out. The other gaps don't even really matter.

Hopefully this raises awareness so the cheaters can be caught. KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN!!

 

[chefjeff]

I have a friend that sometimes picks up the c/b and puts it so it can easily make the 8-ball.
Then he says to the cheater, If you want to win so badly that you have to cheat, cheat this
way and just make the game ball. Go ahead, shoot it in and win. No use going through a fake game, just do it now.

They usually whine a bit and whatever. Sometimes it stops the behavior and sometimes
it ends the match, but his valid point stands, either way.


Jeff Livingston

 

[oldzilla]

So nobody knows why huh ?

I say they are loading the rack.

If you know what that means go to the head of the class. :yeah:

 

[Johnnyt]

Depending what you want to happen, it's the way you leave the cracks in the rack. The key most of the time is to have a ball push another ball that is usually in the way...out of the way. It takes awhile to figure the first type of shot out, but once you get it, the others are pretty easy to figure. The hardest part of trying to make some balls (not wing) is where to break from, speed. spin, and where to hit the 1 ball. Also, tighter 4 1/4" or smaller pockets, gives rack mechanics fits. Johnnyt