Racking 8 ball!

[RBLilly]

Ok, last night a guy got all bent out of shape because I racked 8 ball a little deep. Meaning the head ball was on the spot, but the bottom of the head ball was just bearly touching it. It was a super tight rack all the way around, but he was mad that it wasn't touching the white dot in the center of the spot! As far as I have been taught as long as the head ball touches the spot (whether it is the black or white part of it doesn't matter) then you are good to go.

He was telling me that a ball couldn't be made if you rack them that deep so I told him to rack them like that for me when he got the chance. So he did, and I pocketed two balls on the break.

Now I will admit that if you rack them deep it is a whole lot harder to pocket the 8 in the side pockets, but it isn't impossible to pocket a ball off the break. With 16 balls rolling around the table something is bound to go in a lot of the times.

Since this is a bar league I rack it deep to keep them from pocketing the 8 on the break.

So my question is as follows: Are there any rule books out there that says the head ball in 8 ball should be touching the white dot in the middle of the spot? I don't care which rule books either, I just want to know if there are any that classify the white dot as being the spot. I thought the spot was the whole thing black and white.

Thanks guys!

 

[RBLilly]

Oh and to top it off they put him up against me the rest of the night. Needless to say he didn't win a game! LOL

 

[pwd72s]

sounds like nit picking to me. I mean, league play? Bar box? Who is to say that the little sticker spot was placed properly?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

It is considered courtesy to rack the balls as best you can. There are a lot of complaints people can have about the rack. Some are trivial and some aren't. If it's trivial, I've often allowed my opponents to rack for themselves. If it's not (ie., the apex ball isn't frozen), I will rerack.

In the BCA Team Open, my opponent complained that two balls in the bottom row were not frozen. I told him I thought the rack was acceptable and said, "If you don't like it, you can rack them yourself." Had the 1-ball been off, my reaction would have been entirely different.

In your scenario, you even said you're trying to protect yourself from an 8 on the break by racking slightly low. I think your opponent's complaint has merit and if you refuse to rerack, he should be allowed to rack for himself.

 

[BVal]

A lot of times on the bar box - you have to rack it where the head ball doesn't move any more. Sometimes a little above - sometimes below. The most important thing is a tight rack.

BVal

 

[pwd72s]

A lot of times on the bar box - you have to rack it where the head ball doesn't move any more. Sometimes a little above - sometimes below. The most important thing is a tight rack.

BVal

That too...actually it's rare when the head ball will rest exactly on the spot... (As you can tell, I get lots of practice racking )

 

[crosseyedjoe]

A lot of times on the bar box - you have to rack it where the head ball doesn't move any more. Sometimes a little above - sometimes below. The most important thing is a tight rack.

BVal

That's how we do it here in my neck of the wood.


Heck, for the most part people don't even know how to rack 8-ball correctly anyways. And I keep getting admonish when I rack 8-ball this way (see images specially the second image).

 

[WesleyW]

It's really difficult to rack the balls where the headball be exact on the spot, when you do that, the headball will move, after you remove the rack. That's why I always just let the headball touch the black spot.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

A lot of times on the bar box - you have to rack it where the head ball doesn't move any more. Sometimes a little above - sometimes below. The most important thing is a tight rack.

BVal

Totally agree. Otherwise, you'll spend 15 mins trying to get a tight rack when it's impossible. If everyone's breaking from the same spot, who cares right?

 

[WesleyW]

Totally agree. Otherwise, you'll spend 15 mins trying to get a tight rack when it's impossible. If everyone's breaking from the same spot, who cares right?

Sometimes you see peoples using an other object ball, and using it to slam the headball into the table, so it stays in position. The only problem when they doing this, is the ruin the table

 

[Catahula]

It's a bar table, need we say more.

I'm with BVal.
Most bar tables up here you just have to search for the indentation that has been made by the jabone's driving the headball into the table with another ball. That is as good as your gonna get.

 

[RBLilly]

rack deep

That is another reason that I normally rack a little deep. Because most of the tables around here already have a divot in them from people slamming another ball on top of them. So it is almost impossible to get the rack frozen with that divot there.

I always make sure to touch the black spot with the head ball, and this is the first time anyone has ever complained.

He said he had been playing pool for 42 years and that everyone in the world knows the head ball has to touch the white dot in the center of the spot. He said it is in the rules.

So I told him to show me the rules that state this!

He also said that if it is racked as deep as I racked them, then a ball couldn't be made on the break, which I proved him wrong. I should have taken him up on his offer of betting it couldn't be done.

I also gave him his perfect rack on the next game, and he didn't make a ball on it.

So I smarted off and said, "Wow a lot of good it did you for that head ball to be on the spot! You had a better break when I racked them deep for you!"

He was just a jerk, and I got under his skin which tells me he will never play well this season if he has to play me. Cause I have already gotten into his head! LOL

I just wanted to know what everyone else's thoughts were on where to try and put the head ball.

I have pretty much seen that if it is on the black dot somewhere most people are fine with it. I have only seen people get pissed if it isn't touching the spot at all!

 

[teebee]

I alwayas assumed it was common curtesy if not the rule to center the headball as well as the table would allow. To intentionally not center the ball would seem a bit shady to me. Especially if the intent was to limit my fair chance to sink the eight. But in a bar there are no good rules. So you have to roll with whatever playing practices are accepted in that place - that day.

 

[klockdoc]

So my question is as follows: Are there any rule books out there that says the head ball in 8 ball should be touching the white dot in the middle of the spot? I don't care which rule books either, I just want to know if there are any that classify the white dot as being the spot. I thought the spot was the whole thing black and white.

From BCA rules.
3.2 RACKING THE BALLS
When racking the balls a triangle must be used, and the apex ball is to be spotted on the foot spot. All the balls must be lined up behind the apex ball and pressed together so that they all have contact with each other.


I would take this as the head ball is to be racked on the spot. NOT above it, NOT behind it. Even though there is a divot from others racking incorrectly, you can always get a rack to whereas one side of the head ball is touching the second ball. I then break towards that side. (Driving into the frozen spot). Heck, if worse comes to worse, let the guy rack his own and then inspect the rack.

 

[WesleyW]

From BCA rules.
3.2 RACKING THE BALLS
When racking the balls a triangle must be used, and the apex ball is to be spotted on the foot spot. All the balls must be lined up behind the apex ball and pressed together so that they all have contact with each other.


I would take this as the head ball is to be racked on the spot. NOT above it, NOT behind it. Even though there is a divot from others racking incorrectly, you can always get a rack to whereas one side of the head ball is touching the second ball. I then break towards that side. (Driving into the frozen spot). Heck, if worse comes to worse, let the guy rack his own and then inspect the rack.

I don't like peoples complaining about the rack. If the contact is good, and the head ball is around the spot, I will consider it as a good rack. If someone complains, just tell them to rack, and if it's not 100% on the spot, just tell him that it's a bad rack, and he should rack it again. It will pissed him off

 

[RBLilly]

From BCA rules.
3.2 RACKING THE BALLS
When racking the balls a triangle must be used, and the apex ball is to be spotted on the foot spot. All the balls must be lined up behind the apex ball and pressed together so that they all have contact with each other.


I would take this as the head ball is to be racked on the spot. NOT above it, NOT behind it. Even though there is a divot from others racking incorrectly, you can always get a rack to whereas one side of the head ball is touching the second ball. I then break towards that side. (Driving into the frozen spot). Heck, if worse comes to worse, let the guy rack his own and then inspect the rack.

What if it is on the foot spot, but it is just barely touching it? That black spot is 1.5" in diameter. So as long as it it touching that spot to me it is on the spot!

Now if you consider the white dot to be the foot spot then that is a different story, and the ball would dang near have to be perfect on the black spot in order to rest on that white dot.

 

[klockdoc]

What if it is on the foot spot, but it is just barely touching it? That black spot is 1.5" in diameter. So as long as it it touching that spot to me it is on the spot!

Now if you consider the white dot to be the foot spot then that is a different story, and the ball would dang near have to be perfect on the black spot in order to rest on that white dot.

I guess you can get as nit picky as you want. To me, I would want the same kind of rack that I am giving you. Higher is better than lower. If you think that making the eight on the break is that good of odds everytime you break, then I am sure you can find someone out there that would bet with you on every break that it can't be made, versus, making it.

 

[Big Perm]

Since this is a bar league I rack it deep to keep them from pocketing the 8 on the break.
QUOTE]

Personally, I'm disappointed....I'm impressed with the vast majority of your posts and this sounds like dirty pool my friend and something I wouldn't expect from you.....not trying to be a jerk, just being sincere...

I rack anywhere on the spot where I can actually give a good, tight rack for a strong break.....if I can hit the middle of the spot, all the better, but usually it's either high or low to give a good, tight rack...

my two cents...

 

[RBLilly]

Personally, I'm disappointed....I'm impressed with the vast majority of your posts and this sounds like dirty pool my friend and something I wouldn't expect from you.....not trying to be a jerk, just being sincere...

I rack anywhere on the spot where I can actually give a good, tight rack for a strong break.....if I can hit the middle of the spot, all the better, but usually it's either high or low to give a good, tight rack...

my two cents...

Well for the most part I rack it that way just for the fact that I can get the rack tight, I always give a nice tight rack to my opponent. It just so happens that most the time that the white of the spot has a divot and if you are right on the spot then it will roll the head ball out a bit.

It really is just a side effect that the 8 is harder to be made in the side on this type of rack. Most guys that I see try it down here don't even know what they are doing enough to pocket it in the side on the break.

Besides I don't get pissed if someone does it to me. I would rather have the rack tight and deep. I hate it when the rack is loose and perfectly on the spot.

I guess it just depends on who you are talking to as to what they want.

Besides if you want to call it dirty pool then watch Joe Tuckers racking secrets. He even suggests racking it a bit deep on that spot to prevent the 8 ball break.

Now if I am racking for myself on 8 ball I will slide it further forward on the black dot.

Keep in mind I always have the head ball on the black dot somewhere. (Which is keeping it on the spot as you were saying you do.)

You can call it dirty if you want to, but I call it being educated and using it to your advantage.

There is nothing that prevents my opponent from doing the same thing to me.

 

[ShootingArts]

agree

The usual problem with racking perfectly centered on the spot is that the cue ball skids a little rebounding off of the rest of the rack cutting a groove in the cloth. Moving the rack around the minimal amount necessary to get a tight rack is pretty standard. In this case the rack position was changed as a "move" and the breaker was right to protest.

I'm a "when in Rome" kind of guy myself and when the OP refused to give the best rack he could from then on I would have slug racked him at every opportunity and turned a deaf ear to his complaints. Pool is a much more enjoyable game when it is the only game being played.

Hu

Since this is a bar league I rack it deep to keep them from pocketing the 8 on the break.
QUOTE]

Personally, I'm disappointed....I'm impressed with the vast majority of your posts and this sounds like dirty pool my friend and something I wouldn't expect from you.....not trying to be a jerk, just being sincere...

I rack anywhere on the spot where I can actually give a good, tight rack for a strong break.....if I can hit the middle of the spot, all the better, but usually it's either high or low to give a good, tight rack...

my two cents...