Racking 8 ball!

[RBLilly]

The usual problem with racking perfectly centered on the spot is that the cue ball skids a little rebounding off of the rest of the rack cutting a groove in the cloth. Moving the rack around the minimal amount necessary to get a tight rack is pretty standard. In this case the rack position was changed as a "move" and the breaker was right to protest.

I'm a "when in Rome" kind of guy myself and when the OP refused to give the best rack he could from then on I would have slug racked him at every opportunity and turned a deaf ear to his complaints. Pool is a much more enjoyable game when it is the only game being played.

Hu

It wasn't as a move per say. It serves two purposes. One is that you can get the best rack. Two is that it just makes it a little more difficult to sink the 8.

If he wanted to protest he should have called his captain and protested it.

He broke and then cried about it.

To me he shouldn't have broke unless he liked the rack.

Besides he gave me the same type of rack later, I didn't complain and I broke the hell out of them.

He failed to realize what he was complaining about wasn't doing his game any good anyway. He just wanted to cry about something.

Even when I gave him his perfect rack like he wanted he couldn't make anything off the break.

Most people are pretty much confirming my thoughts though! As long as the head ball is on the black spot somewhere then it is acceptable.

The head ball is always on the black spot when I rack!

 

[BVal]

I am confused.

Ok, last night a guy got all bent out of shape because I racked 8 ball a little deep. Meaning the head ball was on the spot, but the bottom of the head ball was just bearly touching it. It was a super tight rack all the way around, but he was mad that it wasn't touching the white dot in the center of the spot! As far as I have been taught as long as the head ball touches the spot (whether it is the black or white part of it doesn't matter) then you are good to go.

He was telling me that a ball couldn't be made if you rack them that deep so I told him to rack them like that for me when he got the chance. So he did, and I pocketed two balls on the break.

Now I will admit that if you rack them deep it is a whole lot harder to pocket the 8 in the side pockets, but it isn't impossible to pocket a ball off the break. With 16 balls rolling around the table something is bound to go in a lot of the times.

Since this is a bar league I rack it deep to keep them from pocketing the 8 on the break.

So my question is as follows: Are there any rule books out there that says the head ball in 8 ball should be touching the white dot in the middle of the spot? I don't care which rule books either, I just want to know if there are any that classify the white dot as being the spot. I thought the spot was the whole thing black and white.

Thanks guys!

Here is a quote from your original post. You are giving the reason you racked it where you did. Now when called out about that move you say well yeah it racks the best there anyways. So which is it?
I will admit that I don't always rack it right on the spot (I get as close as I can to the middle of the spot with a tight rack) but it is NEVER bearly touching the spot. Your original post says you rack it that way on purpose. My next question would be - Are you the only one that racks it there or does everybody else rack there as well because that is the only place to get a good rack?
If that is the only place to get a good rack then you might want to talk to the owner and let him know. If not then you might want to try and rack as close as possible to the head spot without the influence of a possible 8-ball break coming to mind.

BVal

 

[RBLilly]

Here is a quote from your original post. You are giving the reason you racked it where you did. Now when called out about that move you say well yeah it racks the best there anyways. So which is it?
I will admit that I don't always rack it right on the spot (I get as close as I can to the middle of the spot with a tight rack) but it is NEVER bearly touching the spot. Your original post says you rack it that way on purpose. My next question would be - Are you the only one that racks it there or does everybody else rack there as well because that is the only place to get a good rack?
If that is the only place to get a good rack then you might want to talk to the owner and let him know. If not then you might want to try and rack as close as possible to the head spot without the influence of a possible 8-ball break coming to mind.

BVal

I have said it a few times now. I did it for both, and darn near everyone in this league does the same thing. Most of the reason is because the tables are so crappy to begin with that by racking them deep you don't have to worry about the rack getting loose on you.

If you think that trying to prevent your opponent from making the 8 is unacceptable then rack the way you want.

If I really didn't want him making the 8 I wouldn't give him a tight rack would I?

 

[BVal]

I have said it a few times now. I did it for both, and darn near everyone in this league does the same thing. Most of the reason is because the tables are so crappy to begin with that by racking them deep you don't have to worry about the rack getting loose on you.

If you think that trying to prevent your opponent from making the 8 is unacceptable then rack the way you want.

If I really didn't want him making the 8 I wouldn't give him a tight rack would I?

I guess I am just saying - how do you rack it for yourself? When you are practicing - do you rack yourself deep?

BVal

 

[RBLilly]

I guess I am just saying - how do you rack it for yourself? When you are practicing - do you rack yourself deep?

BVal

On my table I can put it anywhere because my table doesn't have the divots. I rack it deep most the time. Sometimes I rack it perfectly. Sometimes I rack it high. Just depends on what mood I am in when I practice.

I however don't care where the rack is placed on that darn dot when I am breaking. I just want a tight rack so I can smash the hell out of it.

That 1.5" of play on the dot really doesn't make all that much difference if you really want to know the truth.

 

[Cuebacca]

If it makes you feel better, txplshrk, I wouldn't care where you put that head ball nor would I care what your reason for it was. As long as it's somewhere on the 1.5" spot, the rack isn't "tilted" and the important balls are tight, I'm happy.

IMHO, this controversy is just another reason why it should be rack your own, and why the 8-ball shouldn't count as a win on the break.

 

[ShootingArts]

we only answer what you post

We can only answer to what you post. This last is quite a bit different from your first post. My opinion, it is still a move to rack further away from the center of the spot than you need to trying to avoid someone making the eight on the break. As for tight racks, a loose rack is more likely to give someone the eight on the break if they know how to read it and use it.

You are right that he picked the wrong time to protest if he broke first and then protested. It sounds like he simply met you halfway and gave you the same poorly placed rack you gave him when he started racking on the same spot as you later.

I took a bath in an open tournament recently playing someone that was capable of beating anyone on a given day. I made sure he got the best rack possible every time, as close to centered on the spot as possible. My game was off and I couldn't beat him on the table, I wasn't going to try to do it with the rack. I'll play him again somewhere down the road and I'll be able to look him in the eye when I do it.

If you continued to deliberately rack further from the center of the spot than needed for a tight rack in an attempt to gain advantage this is unsportsmanlike conduct and subject to a call.

Hu

It wasn't as a move per say. It serves two purposes. One is that you can get the best rack. Two is that it just makes it a little more difficult to sink the 8.

If he wanted to protest he should have called his captain and protested it.

He broke and then cried about it.

To me he shouldn't have broke unless he liked the rack.

Besides he gave me the same type of rack later, I didn't complain and I broke the hell out of them.

He failed to realize what he was complaining about wasn't doing his game any good anyway. He just wanted to cry about something.

Even when I gave him his perfect rack like he wanted he couldn't make anything off the break.

Most people are pretty much confirming my thoughts though! As long as the head ball is on the black spot somewhere then it is acceptable.

The head ball is always on the black spot when I rack!

 

[RBLilly]

We can only answer to what you post. This last is quite a bit different from your first post. My opinion, it is still a move to rack further away from the center of the spot than you need to trying to avoid someone making the eight on the break. As for tight racks, a loose rack is more likely to give someone the eight on the break if they know how to read it and use it.

You are right that he picked the wrong time to protest if he broke first and then protested. It sounds like he simply met you halfway and gave you the same poorly placed rack you gave him when he started racking on the same spot as you later.

I took a bath in an open tournament recently playing someone that was capable of beating anyone on a given day. I made sure he got the best rack possible every time, as close to centered on the spot as possible. My game was off and I couldn't beat him on the table, I wasn't going to try to do it with the rack. I'll play him again somewhere down the road and I'll be able to look him in the eye when I do it.

If you continued to deliberately rack further from the center of the spot than needed for a tight rack in an attempt to gain advantage this is unsportsmanlike conduct and subject to a call.

Hu

Yea I know, and maybe I should have explained it all out a little better.

I know I give a damn good rack to everyone, and I gave him a damn good rack. He just got pissed about it after he didn't break them so hot. It wasn't my fault he couldn't break a tight rack.

The next rack I gave him it was on the spot perfectly so that he wouldn't cry about it. I took about 3 full minutes just trying to get the head ball not to move because of the divots.

He then complained about how long it was taking for me to rack them!

Well he broke again, and didn't break a tight rack out very good, and he didn't make a ball.

So all that fuss just to end up with a poor result agian!

To me his crying was useless.

Like I said before, he should have said something to me before he broke. I would have put them where he wanted, even though it would have taken a day and a half to keep the head ball from moving.

 

[ShootingArts]

I agree

I fully agree with what you say in this post. Some folks can't be pleased if you hang them with a new rope and that is a different story.

Hu

Yea I know, and maybe I should have explained it all out a little better.

I know I give a damn good rack to everyone, and I gave him a damn good rack. He just got pissed about it after he didn't break them so hot. It wasn't my fault he couldn't break a tight rack.

The next rack I gave him it was on the spot perfectly so that he wouldn't cry about it. I took about 3 full minutes just trying to get the head ball not to move because of the divots.

He then complained about how long it was taking for me to rack them!

Well he broke again, and didn't break a tight rack out very good, and he didn't make a ball.

So all that fuss just to end up with a poor result agian!

To me his crying was useless.

Like I said before, he should have said something to me before he broke. I would have put them where he wanted, even though it would have taken a day and a half to keep the head ball from moving.

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[GADawg]

We don't have this problem in Shanghai. There are no spots on the table.

When the cloth is installed, the installer takes a rack, puts it in the proper place and draws around it with a pen(usually white) on the cloth. Takes the variability out of getting the rack properly located on a 1 1/2 in spot.

 

[Banger]

The BCA defines the foot spot as:

Foot spot (General): The point on the foot end of the table where
imaginary lines drawn between the center diamonds of the short rails
and the second diamonds of the long rails intersect.

That doesn't translate into "anywhere on a 1.5" sticker."

If someone doesn't like the way I rack the balls, I just say "You do it." And then I stand back and watch how well they rack them.

 

[Maniac]

Heck, some of the crappy tables I have to play on out of the crappy little bar I play out of don't even have footspots on some of the tables. We hafta figure out where to place the apex ball by locating the divot which is sometimes marked with a chalk mark. Pretty professional, huh?

BTW txplshrk, I agree with Cuebacca that if I get a tight rack anywhere on the 1.5" footspot and is is not tilted, I'm gonna fire 'ol whitey smack dab into that baby!!!

Maniac

 

[Wyrd1951]

The rules state that it is to be on the foot spot. That black sticker is nothing more than a protection for the cloth. It is not the foot spot per say.
Most tables will have a divot. If the head ball is rolling off, it is rolling into that divot. All you have to do is slide the rack forward a little before removing it. Watch the head ball. If it moves, leave it there- it will go there anyway. Then carefully move the rack around it without disturbing it. Now just push the rest of the balls up against it. Walah- a tight rack. And very easy to do.

Moving the rack back or forward of the spot DOES affect where the balls go.

Thank You! I was wondering when someone would point this out.

 

[JoeW]

Some of you have a problem here. The rules say on the foot spot and that is an exact location, per the prior posts. If you think that within an inch is acceptable then perhaps if I nudge my cue ball just a little on my shot you won't be upset -- right? If I place the CB an inch or so towards the foot rail from the head string line then that is OK too. If I touch your ball just a little as I put mine in (in 8-Ball) then you won't complain?

The foot spot is an exact location, sometimes it takes a little effort to get it to rack on that spot but I seem to be able to do it when it needs to be done. If there is a divet, well I haven't broken any rules.

The guy might be a jerk but he is right and it is your responsibility to rack right and not say if you don't like it you rack.

 

[DelaWho???]

The white part of the sticker is supposed to be placed on the spot. The black ring highlights the white and makes placement of the headball easier and more accurate.

The rack should be as close to the headspot as possible, while providing tight alignment of the balls.


Banger

 

[klockdoc]

The rules state that it is to be on the foot spot. That black sticker is nothing more than a protection for the cloth. It is not the foot spot per say.

Most tables will have a divot. If the head ball is rolling off, it is rolling into that divot. All you have to do is slide the rack forward a little before removing it. Watch the head ball. If it moves, leave it there- it will go there anyway. Then carefully move the rack around it without disturbing it. Now just push the rest of the balls up against it. Walah- a tight rack. And very easy to do.

Moving the rack back or forward of the spot DOES affect where the balls go.

Very good point, Neil. Hey, talking about racking, this reminds me of a situation when a good friend of mine won the Masters BCA in Vegas. The player he was playing always soft broke the balls. So, to get around this, he racked all the solids on one side of the rack and the stripes on the other. BCA rules only states one of each (stripes/solids) on the corners. Totally knocked this guy out of his game.

 

[PoolSponge]

Get Joe Tuckers "Racking Secrets". You can rack high or low off the spot and with the knowledge he gives regarding english and the effect regarding the rack and the normally made balls you will be able to adapt quickly.

It should be dead center if possible even though I voted "other".

 

[acedotcom]

A few months back, I had a guy give me a hard time about my racking in a 9-ball tournament. He wanted the one ball dead center on the spot. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a tight rack unless I pushed it up a fraction, but he kept complaining that the one was off center and asked me to rerack. I called for the TD to make a ruling, but he'd gone missing, so I told my opponent to stick the rack up his a$$ and withdrew. It was my first time playing in this tournament which was billed as "for B players and less." I haven't gone back. I haven't had to put up with this kind of nonsense since I decided to stick to the open tournaments.

 

[DZilla]

I voted as long as it is on the spot, but I am not a picky "A" player.