Rails/banks playing very short on GC3

[islandracer]

I set up my GC3 in November 2011. Had to do it myself due to where I live and thanks to this forum and RKC's replies, I did a pretty good job and am able to solve all the issues I encounter keeping the table in decent playing shape. However, since I set it up I've noticed the rails play pretty short, in case I'm not using the right terminology, when I play a bank shot, the angle it comes off the rail at is definitely lesser than the angle it goes into the rail at. Sometimes if I hit hard enough, even without much inside english I can get it to reverse directions. I get used to it, but then I go the states, play at a pool hall and realize how off my rails seem to play. I'm theorizing I possibly wrapped the rails too tight maybe compressing the rubber? I'm guessing this since you can make a bank shot play shorter the harder you hit it. I could be way off and would really appreciate some input on this one. Thanks in advance gents.

 

[realkingcobra]

Were the cushions changed, or are they factory originals?

 

[islandracer]

I bought the tables used from the original owner. I'd like to think they're original. They're brown in color. I did check them for cracking before I recovered the rails.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[realkingcobra]

I bought the tables used from the original owner. I'd like to think they're original. They're brown in color. I did check them for cracking before I recovered the rails.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

What does the nose height measure out to be?

 

[islandracer]

If that is the height of the part of the rail that the ball hits, it's 35-36mm high.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[reverend]

Just doing the conversion , it looks like you are 1mm low. It should be about 1 7/16" at the point where the ball hits the cushion. That is 36.5mm.

 

[islandracer]

Thanks rev. Can this .5mm cause the rails to play so short? How could this height be adjusted? I only see how the rails are bolted down to the slate, doesn't seem adjustable.

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[perfectpocketz]

Thanks rev. Can this .5mm cause the rails to play so short? How could this height be adjusted? I only see how the rails are bolted down to the slate, doesn't seem adjustable.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

.5mm is not going to make any difference on any cushion....more than likely the cushions have gone soft and your around a lot of water.
All tables close to water play short and spring off the rails....only way to help the table is a dehumidifier in the room...change the cushions......and new cloth will help.

Mark Gregory

 

[reverend]

.5mm is not going to make any difference on any cushion....more than likely the cushions have gone soft and your around a lot of water.
All tables close to water play short and spring off the rails....only way to help the table is a dehumidifier in the room...change the cushions......and new cloth will help.

Mark Gregory

You might be a little worse off than that. If the angle cut on the subrail is too shallow, you get the springy play and banking no matter the height of the point of the cushion. That is similar to the problem the older Diamond tables had. I suspect this is what is going on with your table because the nose height is pretty close to being correct, and still banking short. Correcting that angle on the front of the rail and installing new cushions will get it playing correctly. Send me your rails and I can make it right for you.

 

[perfectpocketz]

You might be a little worse off than that. If the angle cut on the subrail is too shallow, you get the springy play and banking no matter the height of the point of the cushion. That is similar to the problem the older Diamond tables had. I suspect this is what is going on with your table because the nose height is pretty close to being correct, and still banking short. Correcting that angle on the front of the rail and installing new cushions will get it playing correctly. Send me your rails and I can make it right for you.

Really.....your going to teach me something about rail work...LMAO
Best you stick with Glen giving you step by step instructions over the phone...only problem is not the wood work....it's not rocket science to cut wood off and put wood back....it's the understanding of how a table should play.

Just because you have the correct angles for a rail....that makes the rail play right. If that were the case...all the rails coming from the factories would be just fine.
That how ever is not the case...so if you think I'm up-set because your on here asking people to send you there rails and you will fix them perfect....by all means go right ahead....your not taking work from me....I have more than I can get to.

Or if you think your rail work is better....know this....FOR SOMEONE TO UNDERSTAND HOW RAILS SHOULD PLAY....THEY WITHOUT DOUBT NEED TO KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME WELL TO UNDERSTAND HOW CUSHIONS SHOULD REACT.
I truly don't think jumping in a truck with Glen make's you the man at rail work....but if you think you are....then you may want to help solve the ATEMIS cushions from spring and hopping and banking short......That's one I still can't get perfect....my opinion....I don't think anyone ever will.

Glen is all yours.......I don't need any lesson from him....and I'm more than happy to not share anymore of mine with him.
Trust me...there's no hard feeling toward anyone on here...I just finally had enough of my idea's shared with guy's on here doing or trying to do rail work....and I did look up your rail work....keep your phone line open to Glen.

Mark Gregory

 

[realkingcobra]

Really.....your going to teach me something about rail work...LMAO
Best you stick with Glen giving you step by step instructions over the phone...only problem is not the wood work....it's not rocket science to cut wood off and put wood back....it's the understanding of how a table should play.

Just because you have the correct angles for a rail....that makes the rail play right. If that were the case...all the rails coming from the factories would be just fine.
That how ever is not the case...so if you think I'm up-set because your on here asking people to send you there rails and you will fix them perfect....by all means go right ahead....your not taking work from me....I have more than I can get to.

Or if you think your rail work is better....know this....FOR SOMEONE TO UNDERSTAND HOW RAILS SHOULD PLAY....THEY WITHOUT DOUBT NEED TO KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME WELL TO UNDERSTAND HOW CUSHIONS SHOULD REACT.
I truly don't think jumping in a truck with Glen make's you the man at rail work....but if you think you are....then you may want to help solve the ATEMIS cushions from spring and hopping and banking short......That's one I still can't get perfect....my opinion....I don't think anyone ever will.

Glen is all yours.......I don't need any lesson from him....and I'm more than happy to not share anymore of mine with him.
Trust me...there's no hard feeling toward anyone on here...I just finally had enough of my idea's shared with guy's on here doing or trying to do rail work....and I did look up your rail work....keep your phone line open to Glen.

Mark Gregory

Mark, I think you're going a little overboard with your claims about who's ideas I decide to show or not show someone. As I recall you've put to work a lot of my ideas with the use of routers and other tools fit into jigs to perform certain tasks on rails. If you have a problem with me, take it up with me directly, but be a man and leave everyone else out of this bullshit you're trying to stir up as a way to try and get at me. You're the one that has learned things from me, it's not the other way around...and for the record we have worked on a few ideas together, but what in the hell has this got to do with attacking any other table mechanic out here trying to make a living? Maybe I should remind you...you're NOT the only table mechanic in this country that really CARES about the job they do, and want to do their best. Now, if you're NOT going to get off your ass sitting on that tall HORSE of yours and get down here with the rest of the table mechanics and TEACH them something that helps improve their skills...as I have done in the past...because I CARE about this industry as a whole...then what do you really think you're doing attacking other mechanics for doing what they know how to do?

Back off Mark, acting like this is bullshit, I thought you were better than that

PS. And yes, I DO know how a table is suppose to play

Glen

 

[realkingcobra]

If that is the height of the part of the rail that the ball hits, it's 35-36mm high.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

And yes, if the nose height is more at 35mm, that equals 1 3/8" nose height, so yes that would make the nose of the cushions a little low, but what's just as important as the nose height is the back of the cushions/sub-rail thickness. If these are the GC2/3 early version rails, the ones with the GC2 hardware being bolted to the GC3 castings, Brunswick made a cushion change about that time from the Monarch cushions to the Superspeed's, and without changing the sub-rail bevel to lift the nose of the cushions up just a little bit, they turned out low. Brunswick compensated this later with the GC3's by making the rails a little thicker to bring the nose height up, and they've been using thicker sub-rails ever since. Just replacing the cushions is not going to solve the problem, as you're not going to find the same exact profile cushions today that were installed on your rails originally, so to install today's cushions, you're going to have to have the sub-rails modified to accept today's cushions. You didn't mention that the cushions had turned hard as wood, so I'm guessing they're the GC2/3 rails, as most all the GC3's turned rock hard and had to be replaced on just about every GC3 that I have ever worked on, even the ones in all 3 of my pool rooms.

Glen

 

[plhlolelnlilx]

It's a Gold Crown III so I would ask whether or not you bought new balls when you got the table or if you used a set that came with it?!

Do you notice any unusual noise when hitting the bank shots firmly?

How would you compare the rebound angle to another table such as a Diamond? Most of the industry is starting the move to Diamond anyway so having a Gold Crown that banks short may not be the worst thing in the world.

You do not need to have inside english imparted by the cueball to make a ball rebound back towards you. If the balls are even a little dirty or unpolished the small amount of friction created when they come together can be enough to bring that ball back when striking with a firm stroke.

If you're playing even angle cross corner or cross side banks at medium pace you should be aiming to one side of the center diamond by 1-2 balls.

All of this is relative to speed and english applied so assume I mean close to center ball.

 

[reverend]

Really.....your going to teach me something about rail work...LMAO
Best you stick with Glen giving you step by step instructions over the phone...only problem is not the wood work....it's not rocket science to cut wood off and put wood back....it's the understanding of how a table should play.

Just because you have the correct angles for a rail....that makes the rail play right. If that were the case...all the rails coming from the factories would be just fine.
That how ever is not the case...so if you think I'm up-set because your on here asking people to send you there rails and you will fix them perfect....by all means go right ahead....your not taking work from me....I have more than I can get to.

Or if you think your rail work is better....know this....FOR SOMEONE TO UNDERSTAND HOW RAILS SHOULD PLAY....THEY WITHOUT DOUBT NEED TO KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME WELL TO UNDERSTAND HOW CUSHIONS SHOULD REACT.
I truly don't think jumping in a truck with Glen make's you the man at rail work....but if you think you are....then you may want to help solve the ATEMIS cushions from spring and hopping and banking short......That's one I still can't get perfect....my opinion....I don't think anyone ever will.

Glen is all yours.......I don't need any lesson from him....and I'm more than happy to not share anymore of mine with him.
Trust me...there's no hard feeling toward anyone on here...I just finally had enough of my idea's shared with guy's on here doing or trying to do rail work....and I did look up your rail work....keep your phone line open to Glen.

Mark Gregory

I do not appreciate being attacked on here for doing nothing to you. I have not bad mouthed your work like you are mine, and in fact, never mentioned you or your work. I simply gave my opinion of what the problem could be same as you did. It is just a guess just like you are guessing because no one here other than the thread starter has seen the rails. I made no attempt to "teach you something" about rails, I simply gave another option that was not mentioned.

Not that it is any of your business, but Glen does not give me step by step instructions over the phone. I learned what I learned from Glen working with him, and now I am doing my own thing. Yes I do call Glen if I run into a problem and have no way of fixing it, it is not my first thing I do, so don't make it sound like I am calling him every job I have asking how to do something.

I never said I am the man at rail work, far from it. I do however work on rails and pool tables for that matter, and like like the work I do. I have had no customers say their table plays worse when I am done with their table.

Apparently you are upset about me "taking your work" or else you would not have posted this attack towards me. This is all a moot point as of now anyway because the TS has not even come back and said what, if anything he plans on doing with the rails. Talk about making a big deal out of a little comment.

I am beginning to see why so many mechanics come and go from this site cos they get tired of the people with big heads and egos telling them they are the best of the best, and they solved all pool's problems. You said it yourself, this is not rocket science so no need to get all puffed up about it.

 

[Dartman]

 

[perfectpocketz]

I do not appreciate being attacked on here for doing nothing to you. I have not bad mouthed your work like you are mine, and in fact, never mentioned you or your work. I simply gave my opinion of what the problem could be same as you did. It is just a guess just like you are guessing because no one here other than the thread starter has seen the rails. I made no attempt to "teach you something" about rails, I simply gave another option that was not mentioned.

Not that it is any of your business, but Glen does not give me step by step instructions over the phone. I learned what I learned from Glen working with him, and now I am doing my own thing. Yes I do call Glen if I run into a problem and have no way of fixing it, it is not my first thing I do, so don't make it sound like I am calling him every job I have asking how to do something.

I never said I am the man at rail work, far from it. I do however work on rails and pool tables for that matter, and like like the work I do. I have had no customers say their table plays worse when I am done with their table.

Apparently you are upset about me "taking your work" or else you would not have posted this attack towards me. This is all a moot point as of now anyway because the TS has not even come back and said what, if anything he plans on doing with the rails. Talk about making a big deal out of a little comment.

I am beginning to see why so many mechanics come and go from this site cos they get tired of the people with big heads and egos telling them they are the best of the best, and they solved all pool's problems. You said it yourself, this is not rocket science so no need to get all puffed up about it.

Zack...you have no idea what I do with rails.....save that your taking work from me....your listening to Glen to much.

You want to know why your a writer on az now instead of a reader....cause your boy Glen bad mouthed so many good mechanic's on here they won't post anymore.

I truly don't have the time to hear you go on and on....about something you really don't even understand.

Give Glen a call....then you can post again.....but trust me I'm done playing you and Glen's ego game.

You couldn't bottle Glen's EGO with a redwood...good night boy's

Don't call me....I'll call you....LMAO

Mark Gregory

 

[JC]

xoxoxoxoxo

 

[TheTablePro]

 

[perfectpocketz]

Now that's a good one there. Lmao.

Mark Gregory.

 

[islandracer]

Guys, much thanks for the input. Some of my feedback on the suggestions and questions.

- I live in Jamaica - I can't send the rails to anybody, it is very cost prohibitive with shipping and duties back and forth. So hopefully the solution is something that can be handled down here.
- The balls are/were brand new Aramith super pros. Clean or in need of cleaning, it's the same.
- Cloth is/was brand new Simonis 760.
- I am near water - humidity was always a concern of mine. One of the reasons I chose 760 also. I keep the table covered at all times and when I play, I uncover, let the ac run for a while. After an hour or two, the table speed picks up and I'm assuming the cloth has dried out some, banks are still short even then.
- The rails were not changed by the previous owner and they didn't feel hard/dried out out. I was surprised at how springy they still felt. No noise when banking, they seem very intact.
- I've never played on a diamond. I've really only played at one pool hall mostly and it was all GC's. I've discussed my rails with some of the regulars and pretty good players and they're not mechanics so they really couldn't shed any light on it.

It really isn't that bad, I can live with it but if there is a solution that doesn't cost more than the table, I'd look into it. Thanks much again for the input.