Rating One Pocket Players

[JAM]

Oh, where, oh, where, pray tell, did the game of one-pocket originate?

Inquiring American minds want to know!

JAM

 

[wincardona]

Oh, where, oh, where, pray tell, did the game of one-pocket originate?

Inquiring American minds want to know!

JAM

Of coarse in Bensingers Billiards in the 60's. Artie B. and The Beard figured it would be an interesting game. Right???

 

[Redfsh]

Black Bart

Billy I met you visiting Bob at his old place (Sports Palace) in Columbia, S.C. How well of one pocket did he play back in his prime and how did you match up back then?

 

[ShootingArts]

Billy, to put it another way

Billy,

Reyes is the most fantastic player to play the game and he has gained a lot of one pocket specific knowledge over the years. However to try to explain what I was trying to say, if I were playing for five or ten dimes of my own money and allowed a coach as part of the game, I would pick you or another half-dozen people before Efren. Conversely, I'd usually bet Efren himself playing any of you on a given day.

Hope that clears things up a little.

Hu

ShootingArts,
Please stop, Reyes is lacking in traditional one pocket skills,what does that mean? And in knowledge he's in front of the world period. There is no big mystery in playing one pocket,particularly if your a top player.To play one pocket you use your imagination, and your God given sense in when to shoot or build a position You MOVE THE CUE BALL to give you an advantage both on offense and creating positive situations for yourself.No one,no one does that better than Reyes. Please stop.

 

[BillPorter]

Of coarse in Bensingers Billiards in the 60's. Artie B. and The Beard figured it would be an interesting game. Right???

Billy, Hayden Lingo's ghost might disagree.

 

[jsp]

That was exactly my point. To say that German players or Chinese players aren't good at one pocket is absurd. If you're great at 9B and Str8, I cannot see any reason why you can't become world class at one-pocket.

So what German or Taiwanese star would you put in your top 15 list of current or all-time one-pocket players, without any proof to the world they are great at one pocket?

It's listing Alex Rodriguez as one of the top 15 cricket players in the world today, since he obviously has all the physical tools to become a great cricket player.

 

[jay helfert]

BI,
Just some POSITIVE feedback on your list. It was GREAT to see Eddie Kelly on your list. He is definitely one of the most underrated players ever.

While I am not knowledgeable enough to say; my father and his degenerate pool gambling buddies (who all hung around with Mosconi a fair bit in the late 40's, and knew the players of the 50's and 60's better than the current ones) ALL thought Eddie Kelly was the one of the best, if not THE best, all-around player they had seen (the names of Worst, Lassiter, Taylor, Crane, and Mosconi always came up as well). Of course they always gave inordinate credit to players that successfully took their money.

One of the high points of my years attending DCC was getting Ed Kelly's autograph a couple of years ago. A definite Hall of Famer.

How did your match-ups go with Eddie???

Just to underline what you are saying Willie. Back then, we always talked about who were the best All Around players. And Ed Kelly was absolutely considered THE best of them all in the mid 60's to the early 70's. He played all games at the highest level at that time.

 

[jay helfert]

So, Efren learned his skills from the past Filipino One Pocket champions? Who would he have learned from?

He learned the most from Billy and Freddie. TRUE STORY!

 

[jay helfert]

would the list have to be before Joey Spaeth showed up?Just curious

Joey was a terrific player also, but maybe a ball under these superstars. IMO

 

[jay helfert]

Efren has been playing in the U.S. for years and I've read on these forums that he learned the game of one pocket after he got here.

Come on Hemi or Freddie, how good was Danny Jones' one pocket game in his prime?

Another good player, but more noted for his 9-Ball and Snooker ability. He actually played good One Pocket and 14.1, but again a bit under the guys listed. IMO

 

[jay helfert]

That was exactly my point. To say that German players or Chinese players aren't good at one pocket is absurd. If you're great at 9B and Str8, I cannot see any reason why you can't become world class at one-pocket.

I'm not aware of any match-ups with Hohmann or Engert against any top One Pocket players. If it happened, it is a well kept secret. And by the way, just because you are a champion at 9-Ball or 14.1 does not mean you will be good at One Pocket. You can be the European 9-Ball champ ten years in a row, and still not be able to beat a strong One Pocket Shortstop. I'm taking Ike Runnels over ALL the European champions, if anyone wants to put up 5K in Louisville.

Mika is probably the best of the foreign players and he doesn't like the game either.

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

I play all the games that will make me a better player. There's not a lot of players in my area that play one-pocket, so I usually play it as practice with myself.

While I can agree that most of the best one-pocket players are probably local product, I find it absurd to say that there are no stars of the game in other countries. There are 2 Filipino players on that top 10. They learned it somewhere. There are an abundance of cue wizards in Germany - so many so that I'd love to see a Mosconi Cup matchup between the US and Germany. When you look at Ortmann, Souquet, Hohmann, and Engert, you are looking at some of the best 9-ball and straight pool players on the planet. Why do people think that these skills wouldn't translate to one-pocket? That's where I have trouble with some people's thinking on this topic. Efren is the best rotation player on the planet. I think he's probably the best 8-ball player too. He plays good straight pool, and has become the standard by which one-pocket greatness is measured. I think if you have the ability to run 400+ balls at Str8, you can learn and excel at any game, billiards related, that you want to. Just my opinion.

I don't think we're arguing, unless you're saying that those great Germans can beat the players on Billy's list in one pocket, playing even, right now. Not with a couple of years of practice. If one or more of them are truly great one pocket players, I guess I missed it. To my knowledge they are not. I'm sure they could beat the pants off me, in any game, but that's not the point. Can they beat the top one pocket players?

One pocket requires more than just great execution. It requires some knowledge about the game, which is why I asked earlier if you played the game.

 

[jay helfert]

ShootingArts,
Please stop, Reyes is lacking in traditional one pocket skills,what does that mean? And in knowledge he's in front of the world period. There is no big mystery in playing one pocket,particularly if your a top player.To play one pocket you use your imagination, and your God given sense in when to shoot or build a position You MOVE THE CUE BALL to give you an advantage both on offense and creating positive situations for yourself.No one,no one does that better than Reyes. Please stop.

Please stop. Billy, you're funny. I feel your pain.
As much as I respect Ronnie's unique abilities, no one ever moved the cue ball with such precision as Efren. He worked thru and around the balls better than anyone I ever saw. And still does too.

 

[Blackjack]

My favorite "Billy & Efren" moment...

Thank You, Mr. Reyes!


That interview belongs in the time capsule!

 

[jay helfert]

Honestly, one of my biggest and most enjoyable pleasures is when I have the opportunity to watch Reyes play one pocket.When I commentate one of his matches I am really in awe of some of the things that he does. He is a joy for me to watch,especially since I learn something every time he plays. And that alone speaks volumes for his ability and KNOWLEDGE of playing pool. And i'm sure The Beard will agree that there is a special feeling every time we watch him play that there was a time that we felt superior playing him. Even though it was for only the briefest of time.And that my friends is very,very unique.

One Pocket is the perfect game for Efren. It is the only game that challenges him to be totally creative. I know he loves this game. He can fully express himself on a pool table. Once again, NO ONE I ever saw was a more creative player than Efren. Ronnie did do certain things better, but it had more to do with his knowledge of the pack. Once the balls are open, Efren is THE man.

 

[jay helfert]

I play all the games that will make me a better player. There's not a lot of players in my area that play one-pocket, so I usually play it as practice with myself.

While I can agree that most of the best one-pocket players are probably local product, I find it absurd to say that there are no stars of the game in other countries. There are 2 Filipino players on that top 10. They learned it somewhere. There are an abundance of cue wizards in Germany - so many so that I'd love to see a Mosconi Cup matchup between the US and Germany. When you look at Ortmann, Souquet, Hohmann, and Engert, you are looking at some of the best 9-ball and straight pool players on the planet. Why do people think that these skills wouldn't translate to one-pocket? That's where I have trouble with some people's thinking on this topic. Efren is the best rotation player on the planet. I think he's probably the best 8-ball player too. He plays good straight pool, and has become the standard by which one-pocket greatness is measured. I think if you have the ability to run 400+ balls at Str8, you can learn and excel at any game, billiards related, that you want to. Just my opinion.

Believe it or not, there is rarely a One Pocket game in the Philipines! Or China or in Europe! They have just never taken to the game. Sad but true.
Once again, you can be a gifted pool player, but unless you are given some good instruction, it will take some time to even get a grasp on how to play One Pocket.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

I'd Go

Smorgas Bored,

The six players that you referenced are all great players, and it would be hard in my opinion to seperate them in terms of effeciency. Every one of them are champions and could very well be in anyones top 10 list. My intentions was never to slight any of these great players, I understand how much time and love they all have put into the game,and I respect each and every one of them for that.Also I feel that there are a few players upset that I put Frost and Chohan in my list and not them. The reason I included them was that they are playing some of the best one pocket I have seen in a long time, and maybe they couldn't beat some of the players you mentioned,so it would be easy to build that case,and get support.
It's to bad that the players that you mentioned are past their prime, because there would be some very interesting match ups. But in regard to my top 5 on my list,my opinion holds strong.

Billy, I agree with everything that you've written so far and I thank you for the interesting discourse that it's provided all of us. Speaking of players past their prime... I would love to see a Senior's one-pocket tournament for players 50 and up. There may have already been such a tournament(s), but my muddled mind can't recollect them (today, I'm dealing with some legal matters with an ex-wife from more than 40 years ago.... does it EVER end ).
Doug
( Would a Senior's one-pocket tournament work ? Would more old timers show up if the young guns weren't there to make them look/feel old ? )

 

[hemicudas]

Efren has been playing in the U.S. for years and I've read on these forums that he learned the game of one pocket after he got here.

Come on Hemi or Freddie, how good was Danny Jones' one pocket game in his prime?

I loved, Danny Jones, punter. But in all honesty I didn't get to see him play before the car accident and his speed did surely go down from there.

 

[wincardona]

I coulb be as good once as I ever was

Billy, I agree with everything that you've written so far and I thank you for the interesting discourse that it's provided all of us. Speaking of players past their prime... I would love to see a Senior's one-pocket tournament for players 50 and up. There may have already been such a tournament(s), but my muddled mind can't recollect them (today, I'm dealing with some legal matters with an ex-wife from more than 40 years ago.... does it EVER end ).
Doug
( Would a Senior's one-pocket tournament work ? Would more old timers show up if the young guns weren't there to make them look/feel old ? )

Absolutely a seniors one pocket tournament would work,and work very well. There would be a lot of overjoyed players and supporters that would love to participate in a seniors one pocket tournament. There would be a lot more ball moving and a lot less ball running. analogy:like a tennis match with a lot of volleying. Very enjoyable. In regard to your personal problems,it's like playing pool and thinking you've won after making game ball,but some how the cue ball finds a pocket to drop into.Roll up your sleeves and get back to work. Good luck.

 

[BillPorter]

Billy, I agree with everything that you've written so far and I thank you for the interesting discourse that it's provided all of us. Speaking of players past their prime... I would love to see a Senior's one-pocket tournament for players 50 and up. There may have already been such a tournament(s), but my muddled mind can't recollect them (today, I'm dealing with some legal matters with an ex-wife from more than 40 years ago.... does it EVER end ).
Doug
( Would a Senior's one-pocket tournament work ? Would more old timers show up if the young guns weren't there to make them look/feel old ? )

I'm thinking that a Senior's tournament would work as long as "Senior" is defined as Efren's age plus one.