Reaction to pros in local tournaments?

Runnin8

Runnin8

Love God, Love People
Silver Member
I'm curious how ya'll react to world beaters showing up for local weekly tournaments. We have a weekly A player tournament where I play and its good stiff competition, though a couple of guys still regularly have the upper hand. Winner from the week before has to give up the 8 in a race to 4 winner breaks double elimination format. Last night Hillbilly stops by wanting to play and I was surprised by the reactions of a lot of folks. It was ruled that he'd have to give the 7 out against all the field but one. Some folks were gonna leave if he played and some if he had to give that much weight. Hillbilly's played before and won, but he's also been beat. It's a race to 4 so a lot depends on the rolls. Charlie declined the tournament and found a better game.

For my part, I go out to have fun and play better players. Charlie's worked with me in the past and I'd have loved to draw him and play straight up just to take a swing at a champion. What other sport is there where you can pay your entry fee and have a shot at playing one of the best in the world?

Thoughts?
 
i know exactly what you're talkin about.

There's a weekly tournerment at a bar by my house... race to 3 9ball which is just a coinflip. We've had danny green stop by and was banned after one time playing, jerry slivka stop by, ryan mccreesh stop by and a lot of other top level players stop by and the reaction by most of the ppl are the same. "man im not playing if he is, im not donating" blah blah blah... but these are the same guys who go 2 and out just about every time. its like they just look for an excuse to not play cuz they know they will lose in their minds, even tho a race to 3 is a coin flip as long as you can run 2~3 balls.

case point, when jerry played i drew him first round, i broke the 9 in on the break, ran out the 2nd rack (easy easy easy pockets, residential brunswick tables) ran the next rack down to the 8 and missed, left him a tough bank accidently which he almost fired in, then i ran out the last two balls to win 3-0.

anything can happen in a race to 3, and the chance to play someone that good for free should have ppl jumping to play them imo.
 
I think tournaments should be open to anyone, if they're structured that way. Obviously, pros shouldn't be able to play in tournaments for B and C players. But if it's open or handicapped, then sure.

Several pros play in the USPPA system out in the west coast. The likes of Ronnie Alcano, Tony Chohan, Max Eberle, Gerardo Jamito, Rafael Martinez have all played. But they have to give up so much weight that they can't always win. I've seen in the past those guys giving up 8 games in a race to 11.
 
StevenPWaldon said:
I think tournaments should be open to anyone, if they're structured that way. Obviously, pros shouldn't be able to play in tournaments for B and C players. But if it's open or handicapped, then sure.

Several pros play in the USPPA system out in the west coast. The likes of Ronnie Alcano, Tony Chohan, Max Eberle, Gerardo Jamito, Rafael Martinez have all played. But they have to give up so much weight that they can't always win. I've seen in the past those guys giving up 8 games in a race to 11.
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It's funny you should mention Max Eberle. I first met Max down in Virginia. I was visiting friends and we all went to a weekly tournament in Fairfax and Max was the favorite in the field. I believe it was a $15 entry, race to 3. I believe I ended up playing Max on the loser's side and he beat me 3-0. I mean, obviously he's a great player but because it was a short race, I felt I had a chance. Also, it was so cheap, I didn't look at it as a loss by any means.

I think, it's important not to ban professionals. If anything, the best thing you can do is make it cheap enough that they might not be interested but the moment you start banning people, you kinda open Pandora's box. Where do you draw the line of who can play and who can't? Also, you have to encourage better play and support those that are trying to do this for a living. The wonderful trade-off is you get some experience against some amazing talent and oftentimes, it's an experience you won't soon forget.
 
If it doesn't cost much to enter why wouldn't you want to play someone better? Cheap lessons.
 
I know the feeling...

StevenPWaldon said:
I think tournaments should be open to anyone, if they're structured that way. Obviously, pros shouldn't be able to play in tournaments for B and C players. But if it's open or handicapped, then sure.

Several pros play in the USPPA system out in the west coast. The likes of Ronnie Alcano, Tony Chohan, Max Eberle, Gerardo Jamito, Rafael Martinez have all played. But they have to give up so much weight that they can't always win. I've seen in the past those guys giving up 8 games in a race to 11.
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I played USPPA for a little while, and there was a time when I was giving up three games in a race to 5. If that doesn't make it fair for absolutely anyone, I don't know what does. It's not easy to give three on the wire in a race to five, it's hard to imagine giving up eight in a race to eleven. I would rather give up five in a race to eleven though than three in a race to five.
 
First time I played John Schmidt was in a USPPA tournament. He had to give me 3 games going to 6 and I beat him! He plays much better now, so I don't know if I like that game anymore.
 
Runnin8 said:
I'm curious how ya'll react to world beaters showing up for local weekly tournaments. We have a weekly A player tournament where I play and its good stiff competition, though a couple of guys still regularly have the upper hand. Winner from the week before has to give up the 8 in a race to 4 winner breaks double elimination format. Last night Hillbilly stops by wanting to play and I was surprised by the reactions of a lot of folks. It was ruled that he'd have to give the 7 out against all the field but one. Some folks were gonna leave if he played and some if he had to give that much weight. Hillbilly's played before and won, but he's also been beat. It's a race to 4 so a lot depends on the rolls. Charlie declined the tournament and found a better game.

For my part, I go out to have fun and play better players. Charlie's worked with me in the past and I'd have loved to draw him and play straight up just to take a swing at a champion. What other sport is there where you can pay your entry fee and have a shot at playing one of the best in the world?

Thoughts?
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I am barred from most local little events, but in the couple that allow me to play--about 70% of the time I am welcome; however the other 30% I certainly am not and can feel the daggers shooting from the eyes of whoever usually wins if I am not there. Like I am taking away from their lively hood.

Most take advantage to watch, ask questions and learn. I treat everyone there with great respect and am more than happy to give freebie lessons, but there are still some that just don't want me there.
 
Must have been a while back. I've known him from Hollywood Billiards before moving to NYC. Great player, nice guy. And very funny if you can manage to get him drunk. He's currently the highest-rated USPPA player (189 I think), above guys like Chohan, Alcano, Martinez. If only he could bring that to the big tournaments again like in '03.

I think one of the other aspects of pros in local tournaments is watching them as a spectator. You get to see how the local hotshot A+ player does against a world beater. Or on rare occasions, two pros meet up in a small tournament and you get to see an AccuStat-able match live in person for free. I've seen Amar Kang and Tony Chohan go toe-to-toe, as well as Ernesto Dominguez and Santos Sambajon.



Jude Rosenstock said:
It's funny you should mention Max Eberle...

I think, it's important not to ban professionals. If anything, the best thing you can do is make it cheap enough that they might not be interested but the moment you start banning people, you kinda open Pandora's box. Where do you draw the line of who can play and who can't? Also, you have to encourage better play and support those that are trying to do this for a living. The wonderful trade-off is you get some experience against some amazing talent and oftentimes, it's an experience you won't soon forget.
Click to expand...
 
I grew up playing at Hard Times in Bellflower and, at the time, you were liable to have a handful of world-beaters in any given weekly tournament. I loved it. I got to play against these guys for $13 on Wednesday, and $23 on Sunday (I think the entry fees were later raised to $15 and $25)! How can you beat that? :)
 
StevenPWaldon said:
Must have been a while back. I've known him from Hollywood Billiards before moving to NYC. Great player, nice guy. And very funny if you can manage to get him drunk. He's currently the highest-rated USPPA player (189 I think), above guys like Chohan, Alcano, Martinez. If only he could bring that to the big tournaments again like in '03.

I think one of the other aspects of pros in local tournaments is watching them as a spectator. You get to see how the local hotshot A+ player does against a world beater. Or on rare occasions, two pros meet up in a small tournament and you get to see an AccuStat-able match live in person for free. I've seen Amar Kang and Tony Chohan go toe-to-toe, as well as Ernesto Dominguez and Santos Sambajon.
Click to expand...


Yeah, it WAS a while back. I want to say 2002 but I could be wrong.

I agree, with you. Being a decent local player, I really enjoy the opportunity to match up with known players. There are these subtle differences you quickly pick up on and can implement and oftentimes, you only recognize these differences when you're actually playing them.
 
This has happened at the local tourneys around here a lot. Thursday night is a friendly $5 entry at the poolroom where I play and the guy that runs it won't let the local shortstop play in it. He would be the favorite to win, but it's an 8 ball race to two, alternating breaks - anyone can win that. The guy that runs makes the argument that if the Shortstop plays then many other people will not play and it will end up killing the tournament. Pretty weak if you ask me. The best way to get better is to play better players. All you would have to do is make him spot the breaks and he is no longer the favorite.
 
Bring'em all in.....

Runnin8 said:
I'm curious how ya'll react to world beaters showing up for local weekly tournaments. We have a weekly A player tournament where I play and its good stiff competition, though a couple of guys still regularly have the upper hand. Winner from the week before has to give up the 8 in a race to 4 winner breaks double elimination format. Last night Hillbilly stops by wanting to play and I was surprised by the reactions of a lot of folks. It was ruled that he'd have to give the 7 out against all the field but one. Some folks were gonna leave if he played and some if he had to give that much weight. Hillbilly's played before and won, but he's also been beat. It's a race to 4 so a lot depends on the rolls. Charlie declined the tournament and found a better game.

For my part, I go out to have fun and play better players. Charlie's worked with me in the past and I'd have loved to draw him and play straight up just to take a swing at a champion. What other sport is there where you can pay your entry fee and have a shot at playing one of the best in the world?

Thoughts?
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It's a no-brainer for me: I want to be the best player I can be and welcome playing everyone from Efren to Earl to Johnny to Marlon to Kirkwood to Allison to Orcollo etc. etc. etc. I think players who scoff at the idea of playing great players are cheating themselves. I mean, come on, none of us are going to get rich by playing in these little local tournaments...and the benefit/satisfaction gained by having the opportunity to play world-beaters, to me, far outweighs what little piddly sum of money I might not win. Bring 'em all in baby.......let's play:D
 
Every player that B1tches and moans about a pro player playing in local tournaments, especially with cheap entry fees, cares only about the money, and lacks the following: love for the game of pool, the drive to inprove their game and the courage to compete.

Players should be ecstatic to butt horns with pro players for such a low amount of money.

All players that complain about this make me sick, and I will tell this to your face as well, I dont hide my identity.
 
I would love to have world beaters compete in our local events. I pay $100 entries to play mostly low level pros and semi's. I would love to pay the same and play off against John Schmitt or Johnny Archer or the likes.
 
The folks that complain about a pro in a tournament are probably quick to brag outside the room that they were in the tournament with the pro as well. lol
 
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