Record breaking Nike sneaker sparks competitive advantage debate

This article is about new "hi-tech" shoes and setting records, but it parallels what is happening in pool so I'm posting it in the Main Forum.

Carbon fiber shafts, jump cues, changing of the rules, etc.

A quote from the article:

“The challenge is striking a balance between spurring development of ‘new technologies’ while preserving ‘the fundamental characteristics of the sport’,” the association said in a statement, according to Reuters.

At what point is "pool" no longer "pool"?

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/nike-sneaker-competitive-advantage-new-york-marathon

I think most people will agree that electronically or mechanically assisted cues would no longer be pool. For instance "pneu-cues". Pool has IMO been almost ruined by jump cues, but people love jumpshots and can't learn to do it with a playing cue for some reason, so that's here to stay. Any kind of computer assistance in calculating angles for the shooter would also be cheating IMO.

There might be some guy thinking of making a pool shooting jacket, like a shooters jacket with support for the arm etc. That would IMO also be cheating, but maybe some would accept even that.

I like the simplicity of pool, and the simpler the better. Straight pool fits that bill. If ever people start using the stuff mentioned above, I'd rather play snooker.
 
American running professional Ryan Hall came out with a FB post talking about unfair equipment advantages in relation to the record breaking time, and things went from there.

I am a pool player and I have completed a Marathon. Ironically the shoes I run in, Spiras are disqualified from marathon prize money because they have special springs in them (not coils). Those Kenyans just light it up.


I guess I don’t see the big deal with springy materials whether it is a spring, coil, rubber, foam, trapped air, or carbon fiber. As long as it’s still obviously a “shoe” and nothing is electric or motorized then let everyone use it.


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Just as a question here (full disclosure I play with wood based Pred 314 (3Gen)). What if our current break stick efficiency was 70% (just a number I pulled out of my bum (maybe Doc Dave has measured) and with new tech it was 98% and my 21 MPH break becomes 29.4 MPH? Or they develop a mech enhanced break stick that gives me a 40MPH Break?
 
Just as a question here (full disclosure I play with wood based Pred 314 (3Gen)). What if our current break stick efficiency was 70% (just a number I pulled out of my bum (maybe Doc Dave has measured) and with new tech it was 98% and my 21 MPH break becomes 29.4 MPH? Or they develop a mech enhanced break stick that gives me a 40MPH Break?
Without the cue being "active" as in moving parts i don't ever see that being possible. The current cf break cues are at the very top end of what's possible without some sort of mechanical load/unload capability.
 
Without the cue being "active" as in moving parts i don't ever see that being possible. The current cf break cues are at the very top end of what's possible without some sort of mechanical load/unload capability.



Oh I believe it. The statement was what if. Much like jumping now is so much easier.


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Oh I believe it. The statement was what if. Much like jumping now is so much easier.


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Don't know exactly what you mean. There is no way a non-mechanical cue will bump break speeds to 40mph. Breaking and jumping cues are similar in that they have high energy transfer. Stiff with hard tips. They're both pretty well at max power now.
 
Here is the way I see it. Every sport has improved times/distances/accomplishment, etc, that is mostly linked to equipment improvement. People are no better at sport now than 5000 years ago. The genetics are exactly the same. The difference is mostly equipment.

That said, by having equipment that improves performance, it drives participants in sports to want the latest and greatest, so they can have their slice of the performance pie. (while the size of their slice is limited by their genetics...). Now, this is GOOD for sport, and for the economy. It drives market innovation. Creates conversation, creates companies, creates competition amongst companies, creates jobs, etc, etc, etc.
 
Here is the way I see it. Every sport has improved times/distances/accomplishment, etc, that is mostly linked to equipment improvement. People are no better at sport now than 5000 years ago. The genetics are exactly the same. The difference is mostly equipment.

That said, by having equipment that improves performance, it drives participants in sports to want the latest and greatest, so they can have their slice of the performance pie. (while the size of their slice is limited by their genetics...). Now, this is GOOD for sport, and for the economy. It drives market innovation. Creates conversation, creates companies, creates competition amongst companies, creates jobs, etc, etc, etc.
HUH??? Have you compared athletes of today to those of yrs back? They're bigger, stronger, faster in almost every sport. Diet, weight training, better recovery methods,etc have resulted in WAAAY better specimens. Sure equipment is part of the equation but the athletes are far more advanced. Basic genetic make-up may be the same but that's about the only similarity.
 
HUH??? Have you compared athletes of today to those of yrs back? They're bigger, stronger, faster in almost every sport. Diet, weight training, better recovery methods,etc have resulted in WAAAY better specimens. Sure equipment is part of the equation but the athletes are far more advanced. Basic genetic make-up may be the same but that's about the only similarity.

They have went frame by frame with sprinters from 80 years ago to sprinters of today. The feet moved the same speed. The difference is the shoes and the track.
 
HUH??? Have you compared athletes of today to those of yrs back? They're bigger, stronger, faster in almost every sport. Diet, weight training, better recovery methods,etc have resulted in WAAAY better specimens. Sure equipment is part of the equation but the athletes are far more advanced. Basic genetic make-up may be the same but that's about the only similarity.

And yes, the training is more advanced now, along with having an entire team to help the star athlete recover quicker to get the best out of their genetic potential.
 
And yes, the training is more advanced now, along with having an entire team to help the star athlete recover quicker to get the best out of their genetic potential.

Don't forget steroids.

Boxing might be a little different.
It looks like the boxers have regressed.
Now, you have bums like Broner winning multiple titles.
 
I have both...carbon and wood...and switch between them just to keep them from collecting cobwebs.

I think carbon will eventually overtake wood, especially when good wood becomes really scarce and carbon shafts get cheaper.

I don't know about everybody else, or what tests have been done or whatever, but I do know when I see guys using CF they are clearly getting more action than their strokes are producing. Personally I think its total BS.
 
Robots Replacing Pool Players!

The Future is Here!
Augmented Pool and Pool Playing Robots!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AENJxqR0g48


Probably be sorry for asking BUT: just what in your book constitutes a "gadget"?

I don't worry about anything.

I play pool.

I don't need gizmo gadgets.

I think most people will agree that electronically or mechanically assisted cues would no longer be pool. For instance "pneu-cues". Pool has IMO been almost ruined by jump cues, but people love jumpshots and can't learn to do it with a playing cue for some reason, so that's here to stay. Any kind of computer assistance in calculating angles for the shooter would also be cheating IMO.

There might be some guy thinking of making a pool shooting jacket, like a shooters jacket with support for the arm etc. That would IMO also be cheating, but maybe some would accept even that.

I like the simplicity of pool, and the simpler the better. Straight pool fits that bill. If ever people start using the stuff mentioned above, I'd rather play snooker.
 
I don't know about everybody else, or what tests have been done or whatever, but I do know when I see guys using CF they are clearly getting more action than their strokes are producing. Personally I think its total BS.
You mean more spin? Not true. They do offer "some" increased energy transfer but its not a lot. I've test hit both the Revos, BeCue and Cynergy. I didn't see any more spin than with my Mezz wood shaft. You can make ball go a little further with same stroke using cf. Biggest benefit, to me anyway, is the unreal smoothness of the finish and basically impossible-to-dent surface.
 
You mean more spin? Not true. They do offer "some" increased energy transfer but its not a lot. I've test hit both the Revos, BeCue and Cynergy. I didn't see any more spin than with my Mezz wood shaft. You can make ball go a little further with same stroke using cf. Biggest benefit, to me anyway, is the unreal smoothness of the finish and basically impossible-to-dent surface.

Ok. So not spin but increased energy transfer. That must be what I'm seeing, I still don't like it. I feel like this is where a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, but we'll take whatever test you saw or read at face value (Dr. Dave?) Even though my gut tells me there maybe a variable we are missing (and no, I have no idea what that might be). Did you like BeCue the best?
 
Ok. So not spin but increased energy transfer. That must be what I'm seeing, I still don't like it. I feel like this is where a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, but we'll take whatever test you saw or read at face value (Dr. Dave?) Even though my gut tells me there maybe a variable we are missing (and no, I have no idea what that might be). Did you like BeCue the best?
Cynergy. Felt like a really good wood shaft but with lower defl. and an insanely smooth finish. I use a Mezz HybridPro(original version) and there's very little difference,if any, in deflection. The BeCue, to me anyway, felt dead/flat. Tips have a big influence on how these cf shafts feel.
 
Cynergy. Felt like a really good wood shaft but with lower defl. and an insanely smooth finish. I use a Mezz HybridPro(original version) and there's very little difference,if any, in deflection. The BeCue, to me anyway, felt dead/flat. Tips have a big influence on how these cf shafts feel.

Right. I have a Tiger Ultra X LD with a Zan medium. Its the perfect set up for me.
 
No CF shafts in the final 4. But, I still think CF is the future!
The main question I have the interest to is if american pool (the game I love) will ever have a brighter future and those youngsters who have a talent in the game being able to make a nice living as in some other sports.
For the time being pool is one of the most advanced billiard game when it comes to the equipment but still pool is far from being the most successfull when it comes to the prize money in the sport for these better equipped cueists...unfortunately
 
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