Respect.

[JB Cases]

My reply (and this will be my last as I am done with this subject) is only that in bold. You could of course PM an answer if you want a reply, but I won't reply to any more of these threads as it is too much BS drama for my liking.

Have ya ever had a disrespectful thing to say about a President? I ask this because you are not on their level. You could say the same for any politician. To say that you can't say something about someone because they are above you is ridiculous in so many ways I can't even begin to count them. It's like saying the whole world can't say a thing about Earl's behavior because he is above 99.99999999999999999999999999% of us and I'm sure I could add a whole helluva lot more 9s to that.

After 4 years of not being invited and not going to qualifiers (that I am unsure of as I do not know if he did go or not so take that with a grain of salt) it is very easy to understand how quite a few people will perceive this as whining. The first two times and yea I can understand, but after four years and you're still not entering a qualifier to do something about it and then people will call it whining regardless of credentials.

I come from a world of earning your place and you keep earning it. You don't just go to college, get an A for the year and you are given that A for the rest of your college experience. The reason why that doesn't happen is because the real world doesn't work that way. In the real world you earn your spot and you continue to earn to keep it.

I am sure you will mention Yu Ram Cha as far as earning. CW is the promoter and he earned the spot for her and that is the end of that story. He's the boss and he has earned the right to decide who gets invited.

Of course I have said disrespectful things "ABOUT" people. But I try to limit how disrespectful I am to them. If the president were here conversing with us and we disagreed with him I doubt highly that any of us would go out of our way to personally insult him as we disagreed. No, we would make our points respectfully.

And I respectfully disagree that Charlie Williams has EARNED the right to pollute a "World Championship" with players who do not deserve to be there. I will never agree to that. If you read Willie's Game then you will understand that in order for a player to get into the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP they first had to be NOMINATED into the local event by a room owner and from there they had to win the regional event to get to the nationals (de facto World Championships at the time). In order to get nominated at the local level one had to be the best in the room. But beyond the obvious chance at playing favorites at the local level the rest of the path to the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS was ALL and ONLY performance based, EXCEPT for the previous year's champion who had an automatic spot.

It would be like NOTHING for Dragon Promotions to organize such regional events. They wouldn't have to run them - some room somewhere in each region would step up to host the event. It would be easy as cake in this day and age.

But what it would do is completely destroy the chance for Dragon Promotions to insert their pet players. Their players would have to truly EARN the spots and if they did then great, that's what all the fans like me want to see.

And again, I don't have a problem with people seeing Grady's complaints as whining. I have a problem with people going out of their way to insult him while telling him that as well as doing the same sort of personal disrespect to any veteran of the game who converses with us here.

 

[$TAKE HOR$E]

Sometimes it's truly embarrassing to be part of this board.

I have never in my life seen a bunch of people be so disrespectful in my life to the veterans of our sport.

I have not been on as much lately as usual so what prompted this. Who was disrespected. I didnt read through all the long posts in this thread so i might have missed it.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Hi John, I am still wondering if I am part of the reason why you started this thread? You started it because of all the Grady-threads, and I am one of the three guys that Grady has put on ignore. He even, respectfully I might add, told me to go F*** myself.

So, had I acted disrespectful to Grady, in your opinion, when you started this thread?

 

[jrt30004]

i have posted two responses in grady's threads and have not been disrespectful in the least. i think it is very nice that we can come here and discus things with the pros of our game. however, that being said, it is somewhat childish to start mulitple threads asking the same questions, making the same statements and expecting different results. at some point you stop being a pro pool player and become a regular man. posting on an iternet forum. and you become judged on what you type and not who you are. sorry but that is the truth and that is how it should be. if these statements were made in person they would be debated not on what mr. matthews has done in the past, but on what he was saying. his problem with charlie and this tournament was posted, and responded to. we get it. not really fair to grady. but what can we do? it's charlie's tourney and he can run it how he sees fit. i don't know mr. williams and have already posted he may very well be the ass most people say he is, but it's his show and he decides who goes, period. there is no need to have 349 threads listing acomplishments, family histories, the complete life and times of charles degaul. it's over. most of us are not trying to be disrespectful but we have read enough about it. and grady has crossed the line from pool immortal to man, and he brought that on himself.

 

[NYC cue dude]

John, just a few points:
firstly, you posted that I should have acted more forcefully on grady's behalf. I'm just curious, why? Of course there is no way to know how insistent I was in asking him for a spot. Furthermore, I seriously and intentionally downplayed the veracity in which the entire staff of DP rejected any notion of Grady playing in the event.

Furthermore, it is not disengenuous for me to attribute my distancing myself from pool to the circumstances initiated by Grady. Truthfully, Grady started it, and many posters on here, including yourself, finished it. No need for me to engage in anything that brings me aggravation, when it is so easy for me to occupy my time with things that bring me pleasure. I don't miss it. Initially I felt bad for the regional 14.1 league/tournaments that collapsed after I made this decision, as well as some other events I had agreed to help, including the Maryland state 14.1. Additionally, I brought many "exhibitions" to Amsterdam billiards.

In all my posts to Grady, I have never resorted to name calling, unlike him. I'd like to know if grady has any Germanic ancestory. Does anyone know? I'm sure he does. In a recent post of his I was offended by his use of the word "vermin", directed at me. This word was adopted in the 1930's by the nazi propogandists to describe Jews. My feeling is that it was instinctual for him to use this word to describe a Jew that he dislikes. I don't have the inclination to check, but I don't believe it was the first time either.

Anyway, I hope you are well John. I see that your case making business is flourishing. Congratulations. I'm glad to see someone in the pool industry making it in the tough economy.

Randy

It sounds like you did do your part. And it sounds as if politics was in fact still in play before Grady even called you.

I find it rather disingenious of you to blame your withdrawl all on Grady.

While you call it a "resurgence" in Straight Pool it's in fact not. You put your money into a corruption of what Straight Pool used to be about. When you were made aware of that corruption you didn't use your influence to attempt to fix it and insure that the tournament was filled with ONLY qualified players. Instead you sat by and watched as DP put in fluff players alongside the bonafide 14.1 champions.

I would have hoped Mr. Goldwater that you would have exerted a little more pressure to insure that field was fairly filled. Not that Grady would have received an invite under another system but certainly under a fair one people who can't even spell straight pool shouldn't be playing in his place.

But that's another story. This thread is simply not about the specific situation and what transpired. It's simply about the fact that veteran players on this board deserve to be treated respectfully.

As for financial support of pool I'd venture to say that Grady has promoted more events and produced more Champions over his life than you would have even if you had not lost the warm and fuzzy feeling. Only you can know that. What I do know is that Grady's record of events is in the history books and how he handled those events is as well and no player was barred.

But thank you for the two events you did lend your support to. Pool appreciates it. Pool is not dead however and others have stepped in to fill the void. As we speak there is going to be a tournament in Galveston with over a million dollars up for grabs. No one is barred from playing. Someone else with a lot of money got the warm and fuzzy pool bug and they are doing the event themselves. Someone always comes along with bigger and better things.

Hope you get the warm and fuzzy feeling back because pool is a fantastic game. It would be nice to have your financial support as it's always nice to have a sponsor but really what pool wants is for you to just enjoy playing.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

John, just a few points:
firstly, you posted that I should have acted more forcefully on grady's behalf. I'm just curious, why? Of course there is no way to know how insistent I was in asking him for a spot. Furthermore, I seriously and intentionally downplayed the veracity in which the entire staff of DP rejected any notion of Grady playing in the event.

Furthermore, it is not disengenuous for me to attribute my distancing myself from pool to the circumstances initiated by Grady. Truthfully, Grady started it, and many posters on here, including yourself, finished it. No need for me to engage in anything that brings me aggravation, when it is so easy for me to occupy my time with things that bring me pleasure. I don't miss it. Initially I felt bad for the regional 14.1 league/tournaments that collapsed after I made this decision, as well as some other events I had agreed to help, including the Maryland state 14.1. Additionally, I brought many "exhibitions" to Amsterdam billiards.

In all my posts to Grady, I have never resorted to name calling, unlike him. I'd like to know if grady has any Germanic ancestory. Does anyone know? I'm sure he does. In a recent post of his I was offended by his use of the word "vermin", directed at me. This word was adopted in the 1930's by the nazi propogandists to describe Jews. My feeling is that it was instinctual for him to use this word to describe a Jew that he dislikes. I don't have the inclination to check, but I don't believe it was the first time either.

Anyway, I hope you are well John. I see that your case making business is flourishing. Congratulations. I'm glad to see someone in the pool industry making it in the tough economy.

Randy

I have JB blocked, but I get to read his posts when someone quotes and responds to them. So, basically, John's point was that pool doesn't need your money, as others are willing to step up?

GREAT attitude, JB. You say it's shameful that I disrespected Grady. You just whizzed on a guy that was putting money into any pool player's pocket that placed in his tournaments.

JB seems to feel justified in pissing on anyone that hasn't done anything for the sport at a magnanimous level. Let's say Randy put up $30k of his own money to get 14.1 going again. FANTASTIC. It's $30k more than 99% of pool players or supporters have put up. In 30 years, Grady will be a legend. However, without 14.1 tournaments, 14.1 will be a legend as well. NO MAN is more important than the game.

JB, take your $10k you want to bet on Grady, give it to him, and let him put on his own 14.1 event. That would do more for pool than any of your rants on here.

 

[NYC cue dude]

I wasn't in the slightest bit insulted by what John posted. He's right, someone else stepped up last year. I'm not so sure about this year though. I received a text a few weeks ago seeking money for this event. I cordially declined. For the 30k, I can buy my wife a handbag and pair of shoes instead. Then, atleast I have a happy home (and that warm fuzzy feeling, again)

rg

I have JB blocked, but I get to read his posts when someone quotes and responds to them. So, basically, John's point was that pool doesn't need your money, as others are willing to step up?

GREAT attitude, JB. You say it's shameful that I disrespected Grady. You just whizzed on a guy that was putting money into any pool player's pocket that placed in his tournaments.

JB seems to feel justified in pissing on anyone that hasn't done anything for the sport at a magnanimous level. Let's say Randy put up $30k of his own money to get 14.1 going again. FANTASTIC. It's $30k more than 99% of pool players or supporters have put up. In 30 years, Grady will be a legend. However, without 14.1 tournaments, 14.1 will be a legend as well. NO MAN is more important than the game.

JB, take your $10k you want to bet on Grady, give it to him, and let him put on his own 14.1 event. That would do more for pool than any of your rants on here.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

For the 30k, I can buy my wife a handbag and pair of shoes instead. Then, atleast I have a happy home (and that warm fuzzy feeling, again)

rg

Priceless quote

I hope that you in time decides to do something with/for pool again. I would love you to work on that World One-Pocket Championships that you mentioned a couple of years ago. That would be awesome.

Anyway, as JB said, no matter what you do I hope you still find pleasure in playing pool.

RY

 

[JB Cases]

Hi John, I am still wondering if I am part of the reason why you started this thread? You started it because of all the Grady-threads, and I am one of the three guys that Grady has put on ignore. He even, respectfully I might add, told me to go F*** myself.

So, had I acted disrespectful to Grady, in your opinion, when you started this thread?

No Roy. Although to me it is disrespectful to continue to harp on the performance aspect of this when people are hand-placed into an event whose own performance isn't even on the same planet as Grady's when it comes to 14.1.

People are simply missing the point and basically telling Grady that he should grow up instead of trying to understand how much this probably hurts him.

 

[NYC cue dude]

Priceless quote

I hope that you in time decides to do something with/for pool again. I would love you to work on that World One-Pocket Championships that you mentioned a couple of years ago. That would be awesome.

Anyway, as JB said, no matter what you do I hope you still find pleasure in playing pool.

RY

Thanks for the kind words and rep. Your rep put me over the 1 million mark. Thanks!

Truth be told, I'm drifting farther and farther away from pool. I haven't picked up my cue in about a year now. I don't enjoy being bombarded for "favors" every time I stepped in the room.

I hope your well!

Rg
ps, you've always been one of my favorite members here.

 

[Jason Koopman]

THANK YOU, took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[JB Cases]

John, just a few points:
firstly, you posted that I should have acted more forcefully on grady's behalf. I'm just curious, why? Of course there is no way to know how insistent I was in asking him for a spot. Furthermore, I seriously and intentionally downplayed the veracity in which the entire staff of DP rejected any notion of Grady playing in the event.

Furthermore, it is not disengenuous for me to attribute my distancing myself from pool to the circumstances initiated by Grady. Truthfully, Grady started it, and many posters on here, including yourself, finished it. No need for me to engage in anything that brings me aggravation, when it is so easy for me to occupy my time with things that bring me pleasure. I don't miss it. Initially I felt bad for the regional 14.1 league/tournaments that collapsed after I made this decision, as well as some other events I had agreed to help, including the Maryland state 14.1. Additionally, I brought many "exhibitions" to Amsterdam billiards.

In all my posts to Grady, I have never resorted to name calling, unlike him. I'd like to know if grady has any Germanic ancestory. Does anyone know? I'm sure he does. In a recent post of his I was offended by his use of the word "vermin", directed at me. This word was adopted in the 1930's by the nazi propogandists to describe Jews. My feeling is that it was instinctual for him to use this word to describe a Jew that he dislikes. I don't have the inclination to check, but I don't believe it was the first time either.

Anyway, I hope you are well John. I see that your case making business is flourishing. Congratulations. I'm glad to see someone in the pool industry making it in the tough economy.

Randy

What I meant was that you should have either stayed out it completely even telling Grady that you had no intention of trying to influence the field in any way OR you should have made it clear as the backer that you expected to have justification why other veterans received invites and not Grady when instead of Grady other younger unqualified players were invited. I meant that someone should step in and insure that the field is fairly filled and that if you were going to be involved at all then you would want your name associated with a tournament where there was no question as to the fairness of the field.

I am not sure where you and I got off on the wrong page. I can understand you getting fed up when you had to deal with having to deal with folks like me who disagreed with your viewpoints. I hope you can understand that back then you made some statements that amounted to calling the rest of us who can't afford to sponsor at your level "little people" and that rankles quite a bit. I suppose just for being a supporter of pool you deserved a more diplomatic discussion than I treated you to. For that I apologize.

I sincerely hope that Grady was never anti-Semitic towards you in any deliberate way and that he would consider an apology for any such comments that were unintentionally anti-Semitic. We really should keep politics and personal comments out of the discussion. Which is why I also was offended when you made the comments you did about me and how you think I feel about my country. Again though we escalated that well beyond where it should have gone and again my apologies for my part in it.

I hope you can remember that we were on the same side during the IPT collapse. I think that if I remember right that was also part of the reason you became disenfranchised with pool, namely that if the pool players wouldn't take the steps to help themselves then why should you. I probably am misremembering exactly what your final sentiment on this was but I think I am close.

Anyway, since Edwin died I would really like to make peace with just about everyone that I have had viscous words with. So please consider this my way of saying that I am sorry for the way I conducted myself during our overheated arguments.

Best,

John

 

[Roy Steffensen]

What I meant was that you should have either stayed out it completely even telling Grady that you had no intention of trying to influence the field in any way OR you should have made it clear as the backer that you expected to have justification why other veterans received invites and not Grady when instead of Grady other younger unqualified players were invited. I meant that someone should step in and insure that the field is fairly filled and that if you were going to be involved at all then you would want your name associated with a tournament where there was no question as to the fairness of the field.

I am not sure where you and I got off on the wrong page. I can understand you getting fed up when you had to deal with having to deal with folks like me who disagreed with your viewpoints. I hope you can understand that back then you made some statements that amounted to calling the rest of us who can't afford to sponsor at your level "little people" and that rankles quite a bit. I suppose just for being a supporter of pool you deserved a more diplomatic discussion than I treated you to. For that I apologize.

I sincerely hope that Grady was never anti-Semitic towards you in any deliberate way and that he would consider an apology for any such comments that were unintentionally anti-Semitic. We really should keep politics and personal comments out of the discussion. Which is why I also was offended when you made the comments you did about me and how you think I feel about my country. Again though we escalated that well beyond where it should have gone and again my apologies for my part in it.

I hope you can remember that we were on the same side during the IPT collapse. I think that if I remember right that was also part of the reason you became disenfranchised with pool, namely that if the pool players wouldn't take the steps to help themselves then why should you. I probably am misremembering exactly what your final sentiment on this was but I think I am close.

Anyway, since Edwin died I would really like to make peace with just about everyone that I have had viscous words with. So please consider this my way of saying that I am sorry for the way I conducted myself during our overheated arguments.

Best,

John

Tap tap tap

(If you were a girl I would hug you now)

 

[JB Cases]

I have JB blocked, but I get to read his posts when someone quotes and responds to them. So, basically, John's point was that pool doesn't need your money, as others are willing to step up?

GREAT attitude, JB. You say it's shameful that I disrespected Grady. You just whizzed on a guy that was putting money into any pool player's pocket that placed in his tournaments.

JB seems to feel justified in pissing on anyone that hasn't done anything for the sport at a magnanimous level. Let's say Randy put up $30k of his own money to get 14.1 going again. FANTASTIC. It's $30k more than 99% of pool players or supporters have put up. In 30 years, Grady will be a legend. However, without 14.1 tournaments, 14.1 will be a legend as well. NO MAN is more important than the game.

JB, take your $10k you want to bet on Grady, give it to him, and let him put on his own 14.1 event. That would do more for pool than any of your rants on here.

No Shawn, you missed the point. Someone quote this for Shawn as he obviously is dying to respond to me.

The point was that pool will continue on whether Mr. Goldwater sponsors pool or not. The point I didn't make is that just because a person does sponsor events does not make them immune to criticism.

What you are implying is that in fact a man with lots of money IS more important than the game as it's apparently your view that the sponsor is somehow the most important because they are bringing money to the table. I feel that this is absolutely the wrong attitude to have because that is currently exactly one of the major problems pool is having right now. Pool players have to fade all sorts of nonsense imposed by sponsors and promoters because they have no voice.

Which is exactly why there is no organization that can stand up for a player like Grady - or more importantly no organization that can or is willing to stand up for FAIRNESS in determining the field so that veterans like Grady don't have to preach about the current unfairness going on.

But if you want to compare apples to apples on the sponsorship levels then let me ask you which person really does or did more for pool so far, Mr. Goldwater who admits that what he has put into pool is but a tiny fraction of his net worth, or Grady who put on tournaments for years and years and says that he lost money on most of them, which as we know losing that much money often represents all of a pool player's net worth? So who really does more for pool, the guy who can flip you 30gs and never miss it or the the guy who puts everything on the line to put on world class events?

No offense Mr. Goldwater but at this point Grady has the better track record of supporting pool with added money events.

That's however neither here nor there. The point is well taken Shawn that everyone deserves respect. However if you understood the history between Mr. Goldwater and myself and Mr. Goldwater's comments during the previous arguments on this subject then you would probably understand a little better. It's basically that pool doesn't need the money bad enough that we should all bow down. Nor should we bow down to the pros just because they are here. We should simply try to be respectful in our disagreements no matter who it is.

Now I tried that with you Shawn. And again you failed to get it. So I got a little huffy with you. But you can continue to try and "trap" me and you will continue to fail. Because unlike you, I can realize when I misspoke and was out of line and can and do apologize sincerely when that happens.

 

[PAMike]

No Shawn, you missed the point. Someone quote this for Shawn as he obviously is dying to respond to me.

The point was that pool will continue on whether Mr. Goldwater sponsors pool or not. The point I didn't make is that just because a person does sponsor events does not make them immune to criticism.

What you are implying is that in fact a man with lots of money IS more important than the game as it's apparently your view that the sponsor is somehow the most important because they are bringing money to the table. I feel that this is absolutely the wrong attitude to have because that is currently exactly one of the major problems pool is having right now. Pool players have to fade all sorts of nonsense imposed by sponsors and promoters because they have no voice.

Which is exactly why there is no organization that can stand up for a player like Grady - or more importantly no organization that can or is willing to stand up for FAIRNESS in determining the field so that veterans like Grady don't have to preach about the current unfairness going on.

But if you want to compare apples to apples on the sponsorship levels then let me ask you which person really does or did more for pool so far, Mr. Goldwater who admits that what he has put into pool is but a tiny fraction of his net worth, or Grady who put on tournaments for years and years and says that he lost money on most of them, which as we know losing that much money often represents all of a pool player's net worth? So who really does more for pool, the guy who can flip you 30gs and never miss it or the the guy who puts everything on the line to put on world class events?

No offense Mr. Goldwater but at this point Grady has the better track record of supporting pool with added money events.

That's however neither here nor there. The point is well taken Shawn that everyone deserves respect. However if you understood the history between Mr. Goldwater and myself and Mr. Goldwater's comments during the previous arguments on this subject then you would probably understand a little better. It's basically that pool doesn't need the money bad enough that we should all bow down. Nor should we bow down to the pros just because they are here. We should simply try to be respectful in our disagreements no matter who it is.

Now I tried that with you Shawn. And again you failed to get it. So I got a little huffy with you. But you can continue to try and "trap" me and you will continue to fail. Because unlike you, I can realize when I misspoke and was out of line and can and do apologize sincerely when that happens.

Quoted for Shawn... Perhaps he'll leave me more bad rep...

 

[shawnbarley]

I am sure we all remember in little league, when we did not get to play, or in high school we got snubbed because somebody was more popular or better looking and they got the call instead of us. Those wounds ran deep, didn't they. It hurts so bad, to not get invited to anything, especially if you are convinced you should have. You want to cry out, but to whom?

Like this one, who cares, who will step up, nobody, so it becomes a exercise in futility or frustration. When young guys run events, they will always invite their younger friends. It is such a shame that Mizarak was never able to get a senior tour going like golf has, so older players do not have to experience this embarassment and pain. It's really a failure of the game to grow and expand, which is the problem here.

If these events would just run two events at once, the problem would go away. Run the regular event, and have a couple of tables for the seniors to have their sub event playing at off hours and staying out of the way, of the main event. You would crown, 2 champions. You could even have 3 events, the main champion, and the seniors, 50 to 60, and the super seniors, 61 and up. Then no player would have to retire and many of these great stars from the past, would still come out. Who want's to see Rempe and Segal and Efren, stop showing up.

Very little extra work, time or money would be involved.

 

[NYC cue dude]

I certainly understand your first paragraph, but you fail to see my perspective. Perhaps I wasn't clear in explaining it when it happened, 4 years ago. Grady sought me out with a telephone call. He BEGGED me to get an invite. He NEVER told me about the existing bad blood that existed between he and the staff at DP. I REPEATEDLY told Grady I had nothing to do with the invites. His persistence garnered my word i would ask on his behalf. Had I known about the bad blood, believe me, I would have NEVER TAKEN HIS CALL IN THE FIRST PLACE. The fact is I was trying to be a nice guy and was ultimately punished for it.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. It's long over in my book.

What I find more important is your apology. I not only accept, but offer mine in return. I can admit that some of my behavior was both intolerant and elitist. You should know that is not who I really am. I consider this a clean slate.

Oh, and as far as the ipt was concerned, yes we were on the same side. I had a very long conversation with KT at the first 14.1 event. He toldme to my face he wanted to "own pool". I never liked him. My only concern was getting my friend Thorsten paid. I was prepared to go "all in" , no matter the cost to make sure that happened.

All the best, John.

Rg

What I meant was that you should have either stayed out it completely even telling Grady that you had no intention of trying to influence the field in any way OR you should have made it clear as the backer that you expected to have justification why other veterans received invites and not Grady when instead of Grady other younger unqualified players were invited. I meant that someone should step in and insure that the field is fairly filled and that if you were going to be involved at all then you would want your name associated with a tournament where there was no question as to the fairness of the field.

I am not sure where you and I got off on the wrong page. I can understand you getting fed up when you had to deal with having to deal with folks like me who disagreed with your viewpoints. I hope you can understand that back then you made some statements that amounted to calling the rest of us who can't afford to sponsor at your level "little people" and that rankles quite a bit. I suppose just for being a supporter of pool you deserved a more diplomatic discussion than I treated you to. For that I apologize.

I sincerely hope that Grady was never anti-Semitic towards you in any deliberate way and that he would consider an apology for any such comments that were unintentionally anti-Semitic. We really should keep politics and personal comments out of the discussion. Which is why I also was offended when you made the comments you did about me and how you think I feel about my country. Again though we escalated that well beyond where it should have gone and again my apologies for my part in it.

I hope you can remember that we were on the same side during the IPT collapse. I think that if I remember right that was also part of the reason you became disenfranchised with pool, namely that if the pool players wouldn't take the steps to help themselves then why should you. I probably am misremembering exactly what your final sentiment on this was but I think I am close.

Anyway, since Edwin died I would really like to make peace with just about everyone that I have had viscous words with. So please consider this my way of saying that I am sorry for the way I conducted myself during our overheated arguments.

Best,

John

 

[JoeyA]

And? Then let them handle their business. I wasn't speaking of "pros" in general, I was speaking specifically about the veterans.

I also feel that when someone chooses to mix it up here then they have to be open to criticism. But do it respectfully.

I have argued with John Schmidt. I think that John understands that while I didn't agree with his premise I totally respect his accomplishments thus far and his contributions to the game.

Other people weren't so diplomatic about it and try to make things personal.

This is all I am saying. Agree or disagree doesn't matter. Just don't go off personally insulting and deriding a veteran professional.

I have seen Grady mix it up in the poolroom for example and have seen him barked at and doing the barking. I can tell you that this is banter among his peers.

When it comes to discussing the ins and outs of professional pool as seen through a pro player's experiences then almost none of us can truly relate.

If Billy Incardona comes on here and tells Grady he is being childish then that's coming from one professional to another, from one person who has "been there" right along with him. If I tell Grady he is being childish and to "suck it up" then I am being disrespectful and speaking from a position of zero understanding for his perspective. It may well be my opinion but out of respect I don't have to put it out there. That's the choice we all have to make.

And if the current pros choose to use this venue to bark at each other then they probably know that somewhere along the line they are doing themselves harm in the eyes of potential sponsors and fans. Or not. Sometimes it's a treat to see them barking at each other. But it's not our place as amateurs to jump in the mix and start insulting them.

I am not advocating that we all bow down like supplicants either. All I am saying is that we try to make our points with respect in a way that speaks to the issue rather than making it personal.

What prompted this post was the FACT that Shawn Armstrong chose to denigrate Grady Mathews with silly comparisons, labeled his grievance as acting childish, and then presumed to tell a lifelong veteran of the sport to just "suck it up". This is just the latest example of such arrogance and disrespect. Shawn makes good points a lot of the time. But sometimes he goes off the reservation and when it's pointed out to him that maybe that wasn't the most tactful way to go he then makes it a point to go even further. If I were Grady I'd turn my back on the board completely. And I am sure some people would applaud that.

For others of us it would a loss.

I don't know what it is about the Internet. It is a strange place where individuals sometimes say things that they wouldn't say in person. You've made a valid point about the veteran players not being shown respect.

I think that some people believe that the Internet is THEIR HOME and that THEY can say anything they like without repercussion. It also appears that people would rather win an argument as if it makes them a better human being (if as far as they are concerned, win the argument) which is like comparing apples with oranges.

I don't know if your post will hit home with all of us but I hope that it impacts some of us. Your post is spot on, John.

Thanks for allowing all of us do some self-reflection.

JoeyA

 

[wonpocket101]

Thanks Grady...

This is not a post to get into the child like bs that seems to be prevalent on this forum latley. But to give my friend Grady props for living such and interesting and exciting life. How many of us can say the same, not many of us. I would also like to thank him for all of the knowledge he has shared with me on the greatest game ever -Onepocket.

 

[NYC cue dude]

Johnn stated "But if you want to compare apples to apples on the sponsorship levels then let me ask you which person really does or did more for pool so far, Mr. Goldwater who admits that what he has put into pool is but a tiny fraction of his net worth, or Grady who put on tournaments for years and years and says that he lost money on most of them, which as we know losing that much money often represents all of a pool player's net worth? So who really does more for pool, the guy who can flip you 30gs and never miss it or the the guy who puts everything on the line to put on world class events?

No offense Mr. Goldwater but at this point Grady has the better track record of supporting pool with added money events."

I never stated Grady didn't do a lot for pool. In fact, I'm on record for commending his accomplishments, as both a player and promoter. Few have EVER done so much to benifit this game as Grady has.

As for myself, I never claimed that I had done that much to benifit pool. I do personally feel responsible, along with DP, that we reignited nationwide interest in straightpool. I only hope that people keep their interest high.

I would be the first to say that grady's accomplishments far outweigh mine. In fact, we aren't in the same league. Grady has spent a lifetime winning AND promoting AND teaching. It is his lifes work, dictated by dedication and passion. My involvement was a hobby at best which lasted 5 or 6 years. Perhaps had things gone differently, I'd still be involved, but I never pretended that my sponsorships, regardless of the amounts, could compare to gradys legacy.

Rg