Respect.

I say we all join together to fight evil, we outnumber the evil doers 100-1, we can rep bomb them right out of here! :eek:
 
As I mentioned early on in this thread, I'm new here. I don't think I'm new to the game and I'm 100% certain I'm not new to the ideology of having respect for people. I guess some of us have a different concept of respect.

My grandmother rants on sometimes about the cost of things compared to when she was young. Sometimes she quibbles about the way the world is now compared to when she was a child. SO WHAT. She's my grandmother and I respect her and I'm not going to say, "Hey Grandma...you know the world has changed, you haven't told me anything worthwhile in a long time and your feelings aren't worth a sh#t."

Whether or not she's given me advice to benefit my life in the last 15 years or not doesn't matter to me. I got some great stuff from her in my life that makes me the man I am today. For that, she has my respect.

You can, without question, disagree with the course of action some people in this forum have taken to express their point. To me, the gist of this thread has been...You can have those thoughts, but have enough respect for those that came before you, and the things that they've done for you (or in this case our sport), to listen, sympathize and take it for what it is. Not passive aggressively providing feedback.

This game and the people that came before me contribute to the person I've become. (but that's a story for another day)

I have a profound reverence of this game, and to everyone that has contributed to its success.

Am I wrong for feeling this way?
 
JB Cases said:
Grady has posted numerous stories here of the road. I am sure if people were to simply engage him in normal dialog then he would be more than happy as he always is in person to help out. Every time I have ever asked him to show me a shot he spends way more time than I deserve teaching me every nuance of it.

And as I said, you don't have to agree with Grady, or any other pro on here for that matter. I would only hope that instead of being deliberately insulting that we would just choose to ignore it.

It's honestly not just about Grady though. It's about a certain attitude that because we are all separated by distance that we can say anything we want without recourse and without remorse. I find that this is liberating and disturbing at the same time. Common civility and courtesy and honestly, the fear of retaliation, keeps people from saying in person the things that they let go here.

Glad you like the case! Now Tony will be on my butt to get his new one done. :-)
Click to expand...

I agree that there are many keyboard warriors on here and the internet in general. Hopefully I am not perceived in that manner because I have met many AZ'ers all over the country and hope to meet more as time goes on.
99.9% of them have been great!!

I also apologize for my ignorance, because I don't follow the large tournaments and understand how they work as well as I could or should. Maybe Grady should get an invite?? I don't know.

Go get busy on Tony's new case or he will be bugging me for this one back!!!!

Best,

Russ...
 
Blackjack said:
John

I was contemplating writing something similar - your post conveys exactly the way I feel. Thank you for having the courage to tell it like it is.

I was raised and brought up in this game the correct way. I was taught to never underestimate, underscore, or undermine anybody's talent. I was taught that respect was a constant - it applies to all - and that when representing the game, I represented the people that taught me. I was encouraged to conduct myself in a dignified way in all situations, towards all people.

I have met a lot of people through this forum, and I hope that I have lived up to that.

Somehow in the age of the internet, respect seems to not matter anymore. Anybody can be insulted, put down, belittled, to include the legends of the game.

I find that sad.

Two years ago I was offered a spot in the tournament that Grady has been talking about. I had done absolutely nothing to deserve that spot, albeit a last minute wildcard slot - nonetheless - there were hundreds of players more deserving than myself. I was honored to be asked. Who wouldn't want to play in the biggest straight pool event in the world? However, there was no way I could accept something that I did not earn. Respectfully I declined the spot.

In the same breath I asked if the spot could be given to Grady Mathews. I didn't do that to open up a can of worms. I didn't do that to play political games. I did that because I respect and admire Grady Mathews. I respect the man, I respect the player, and I respect his game. That's not ass kissing, that is genuine respect.

I respected the decisions that were made by the people that chose not to invite Grady. That does not mean I agreed with them. I respected Randy's decisions at the time, and he knew how I felt because I told him directly and respectfully. I supported Grady Mathews. I was told by others that I might pay a heavy price for that. I did. Two years later, I'm sticking to my guns. I still support Grady's position.

There comes a time when doing the right thing is more important than following some rigid protocol that only provides or protects the people that wrote it. People puffing their chests out on their perches as if their power means as much to everybody else as it does to themselves.

This is the game of pool. Why do some people try to complicate the hell out of it? If someone wants to play, let them play - especially if they are a world champion in multiple disciplines.

Pool is a game. It's supposed to be fun. It seems to me that the "business and politics" crowd seem to forget who paved the way. The game wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the people that have dedicated their lives to it. Their lack of respect for Grady's contributions will ultimately plant the seeds for their own demise, and the demise of their illusion of power and control. They can only pass on what they have created - so what they are doing now will someday be done to them. There are people that have the power to break that cycle. If you are one of those people, just remember, there is no right way to do the wrong thing.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for telling it like it really is, this is very comendable and I do understand that if could effect you personally. I really hope things change with professional pool, because there are Dark clouds looming on the horizon for Proffesional pool if things don't chnage.
 
Fast Lenny said:
I say we all join together to fight evil, we outnumber the evil doers 100-1, we can rep bomb them right out of here! :eek:
Click to expand...

I wish there was a way to "vote people off the island" using the rep system. That would go a long way towards cleaning things up.
 
sign0188.gif
 
This is a great thread, and I agree 100%. I think that if you have nothing positive to add to a thread, you should probably not be posting on it. I have learned a great deal by just listening and reading. I am glad that someone finally posted this.
 
JB Cases said:
I wish there was a way to "vote people off the island" using the rep system. That would go a long way towards cleaning things up.
Click to expand...

You could never win with that strategy. The people you'd be voting against are the ones who have built up the most rep points. They would out vote you. That's the game they play, and probably the only one they are any good at. And the title of "Rep Champion" is probably the only one that Grady will never win because it is the only one with zero value.

Roger
 
Roger Long said:
You could never win with that strategy. The people you'd be voting against are the ones who have built up the most rep points. They would out vote you. That's the game they play, and probably the only one they are any good at. And the title of "Rep Champion" is probably the only one that Grady will never win because it is the only one with zero value.

Roger
Click to expand...

PM me if you want to discuss anything...
 
Why am I suddenly craving a drambui (sp?) and potato salad?

Grady has earned the right to be crusty from time to time...:thumbup:

(edit) The below is copied from a car forum I visit...names have been edited to protect the guilty.
The writer is a friend of mine. I think his thoughts expressed work well here:

"Last..old guys. I too am in that club. I have begun to realize that age tends to make you .. kinda.. crusty. Maybe..... really.. crusty. Not just me. Not just *****. Not just my brother. LOTS of guys with more wrinkles than hair [well, hair where we might still like to have it]... You work like H all your life and play by most of the rules and you usually are quite controlled.. or restricted. Finally you don't HAVE to be nice to the ****heads. You don't have to ignore the insults. You don't have to hold you tongue and act proper. You can be an ASS if you like. People don't like what you say? OR simply don't understand that you are saying it tounge-in-cheek.. SO WHAT? Screw them!!! THAT, my friends is one of the few advantages of still breathing. It DOES beat being dead.... I mean, think about it.. young woman don't check you out anymore... young guys see you in your Super ******* and think "What is THAT old fart doing in a neat car like that?!". You are essentially worthless with people waiting for you to die and hoping that they are on your short list as they look at your cars and "neat stuff". The only thing going for us "old-uns" is that we can sleep in as much as we want, screw off all day if we want, eat what we want and "screw 'Dr's advice' ", eyeball the female young-uns without having to think of clever lines to add, and ....well, just pee all over ourselves in our newfound and sometimes delightful saltiness. So, you think... "I won't be like that. I will be mellow.. and profound." Yea. Right. Just you wait. And remember.. it beats the hell outta dying."
 
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Roger Long said:
You could never win with that strategy. The people you'd be voting against are the ones who have built up the most rep points. They would out vote you. That's the game they play, and probably the only one they are any good at. And the title of "Rep Champion" is probably the only one that Grady will never win because it is the only one with zero value.

Roger
Click to expand...

What I really meant was if there was a system in place that couldn't be gamed by groups of people repping each other.

Maybe if someone puts up a post that is so out of line that people give it an X or something then that post is sandboxed (not deleted) and the poster is given a time-out. Presumably this would only happen when enough people in the community think that the post is out of line.

It's really not a per person thing but instead a per post thing. However if a person did end up with enough posts being flagged by the community then they would be banned for some length of time.

I do honestly think that this should be a community thing with one vote per person regardless of how much positive rep they have.

Of course this still leaves it open to being gamed by groups of people who decide in private to gang up on someone. We would hope that this doesn't happen and it's why a post is just sandboxed and not deleted.

But honestly even this shouldn't be necessary.
 
manwon said:
Thanks very much for telling it like it really is, this is very comendable and I do understand that if could effect you personally. I really hope things change with professional pool, because there are Dark clouds looming on the horizon for Proffesional pool if things don't chnage.
Click to expand...

Craig,

With all due respect sir, the dark clouds have already settled into the valley and it will take a very strong wind of change for them to be blown away.

Professional pool needs a swift kick in the ass and I don't know if that will ever happen with the decisions that the top players make as a whole.

I think the future of pool lies not in professional matches, but more with what we are seeing with TAR, big money match ups, live streaming, etc...

Best,

Russ....
 
I've been reading on here for quite some time, I finally signed up for an account and now I can agree and disagree, ask for help and advice on many topics. I still just enjoy reading everything. There are things that really push my buttons though and those were the things that kept me from wanting to sign up. Now that I'm finally here, I'm happy that you stood up and said this. Simply put, I don't think anyone could have said it all any better. As well as all the replies I've read, I really agree with just about each word of it. I look forward to going to work and sitting down when I get the chance to just read AZ to learn something new from a new perspective.

Kudo's to you!

AJ
 
I am glad someone finally said something about respect on here. I think we in general tend to disrespect the people who brought us all here and our sport. We will all come a lot longer respecting eachother and what we do.

In my opinion, everyone who contributes positive to the sport, or have done, deserve to be treated with respect. You dont always have to agree, but dont talk down to them.

Great thread
 
jay helfert said:
Respect is something you earn. One commands respect, not demands it. That's all I have to say on the subject.
Click to expand...

Certainly true. However you will certainly agree Jay that if people resort to uncalled for personal attacks then the folks who have tons of knowledge will cease to come around.

I can point to the absolutely pathetic way you were attacked during the last round of "discussion" on the method of filling a "world championship" that was put on by Dragon Promotions. You were personally attacked with accusations and innuendo. Fortunately for us you have a thick skin and can dish it out as well when attacked. But the point is that such an attack was completely unwarranted and disrespectful to someone who has given a lot back to the game in his lifetime.

ANY topic can be discussed without belittling the person on the other side.

And I know a lot about arguing disrespectfully. If my momma were to see some of the things I have said on here she'd say "boy you are one to talk, I raised you better than that, now get your ass back to work before I tan your hide!"

But I kind of draw the line at the people I consider bonafide pool heroes.

And I know that Grady himself is a polarizing figure. But dammit, he has done it all - played high stakes high level pool - owned poolrooms - been on the road - promoted events - toured the country doing exhibitions (he even had a bet for any room owner that if he didn't run a hundred that night the exhibition was free) - wrote a book - done dvds - if that doesn't command respect as a billiard star then I don't know what should.
 
It is a Law

It is a Law:

In any group or organization 5% of the people will cause 95% of the problems, annoyances, aggravations.

No one who posts on an internet site should expect anything different.

95% of readers will recognize an idiot's post. The other 5% aren't worth your time - they are unteachable.

The best response to an idiot is to ignore him.

Flame wars simply compound the degradation of the board's usefulness and entertainment values, and encourage the idiots who crave attention.
 
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Blackjack said:
John

I was contemplating writing something similar - your post conveys exactly the way I feel. Thank you for having the courage to tell it like it is.

I was raised and brought up in this game the correct way. I was taught to never underestimate, underscore, or undermine anybody's talent. I was taught that respect was a constant - it applies to all - and that when representing the game, I represented the people that taught me. I was encouraged to conduct myself in a dignified way in all situations, towards all people.

I have met a lot of people through this forum, and I hope that I have lived up to that.

Somehow in the age of the internet, respect seems to not matter anymore. Anybody can be insulted, put down, belittled, to include the legends of the game.

I find that sad.

Two years ago I was offered a spot in the tournament that Grady has been talking about. I had done absolutely nothing to deserve that spot, albeit a last minute wildcard slot - nonetheless - there were hundreds of players more deserving than myself. I was honored to be asked. Who wouldn't want to play in the biggest straight pool event in the world? However, there was no way I could accept something that I did not earn. Respectfully I declined the spot.

In the same breath I asked if the spot could be given to Grady Mathews. I didn't do that to open up a can of worms. I didn't do that to play political games. I did that because I respect and admire Grady Mathews. I respect the man, I respect the player, and I respect his game. That's not ass kissing, that is genuine respect.

I respected the decisions that were made by the people that chose not to invite Grady. That does not mean I agreed with them. I respected Randy's decisions at the time, and he knew how I felt because I told him directly and respectfully. I supported Grady Mathews. I was told by others that I might pay a heavy price for that. I did. Two years later, I'm sticking to my guns. I still support Grady's position.

There comes a time when doing the right thing is more important than following some rigid protocol that only provides or protects the people that wrote it. People puffing their chests out on their perches as if their power means as much to everybody else as it does to themselves.

This is the game of pool. Why do some people try to complicate the hell out of it? If someone wants to play, let them play - especially if they are a world champion in multiple disciplines.

Pool is a game. It's supposed to be fun. It seems to me that the "business and politics" crowd seem to forget who paved the way. The game wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the people that have dedicated their lives to it. Their lack of respect for Grady's contributions will ultimately plant the seeds for their own demise, and the demise of their illusion of power and control. They can only pass on what they have created - so what they are doing now will someday be done to them. There are people that have the power to break that cycle. If you are one of those people, just remember, there is no right way to do the wrong thing.
Click to expand...

Like John I too am sometimes almost embarrassed to be a part of this forum.. it gets very ugly when fools spout off. But then I read posts like JB's that started this thread and then some like Dave's post above and I am genuinely happy to be on the planet at the same time as these guys and I'm just downright proud to be a part of their lives... and of Grady's, a true MASTER pool player who absolutely deserves all the respect due one who is or has been a MASTER. Once that title is earned it is earned in perpetuity.

Darkness will always.... ALWAYS.. be overcome by light and you men are genuine lamps to light the way when the darkness threatens to overcome.
 
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