Responsibility Question On Cue Sale

Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

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I *always* try to be fair in my dealings, no exceptions, and this is the main motivation on why I am posting here, for opinions.

I recently sold a cue to a nice local fellow (not az related) from my pool room and have hit a snag.

This particular guy has been away from pool for many years and has just decided to start spending time back in the sport and has become somewhat of a 'regular' at the room over the last few months.

He was told I might be able to help him get a cue and so he approached me with what he was hoping for and his budget. I ended up having him come to my house and he tried lots of cues over the course of a couple of hours.

He chose one that he really liked (a great choice, imo) which was $600 and I delivered it to him at the pool room when he was ready a couple of weeks later. He played with it again for a few racks before making his final decision.

He said he loved it, paid, and took the cue.

Two weeks later he called me to say that the cue has developed a rattle or vibration. This definitely was not present at the time of the sale.

What responsibility, if any, would you guys say a seller would have in a situation exactly as I have described above?

TIA

best,
brian kc
 
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Did you specify the type of sale (as is, or with a warranty of some sort)? Doing so and in writing is a good idea IMHO and helps prevent problems like this. Did you verify the issue? I guess I would verify the problem and offer to have it fixed. It may be a simple fix. Either way I would want to see the cue. It may have been abused.
 
If it was a day or two later I'd be more willi to take responsibility, but after two weeks....no. Especially in a situation like that where he played it immediately before purchase.
 
What bad luck, Brian!

Surely you can figure out what is causing the rattle. Most likely something minor, a loose joint or ferrule, loose weight bolt/butt cap. Rarely will a cue come apart internally or split the wood without it being obvious. (I test my cues for rattles by tapping the ends on a table and listening before they are sold).

Personally, if there were no obvious dings or dents that weren't present when sold, I would probably take it back for a trade or refund, or send it off for repair (at my expense). That's just me though. Used items are sold "as is" and we all take our chances. Since he contacted you about it, he obviously doesn't feel that way. I hate to see people disappointed in something I sold them. For me returning $600 or getting a cue fixed is just a minor inconvenience.
 
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Just 2 weeks I'd inspect it and see if the rattle can be diagnosed. A simple loose ferrule, weight bolt will be easily repaired/fixed. I would personally take care of it no matter what the problem, up to and including refunding his money for the cue or replacing the cue. Brian.
 
Comes down to how many cues you sell in a year in your area. A online sale, I don't think I'd take it back. Too many things out of my control.

A in person sale, where I didn't think the buyer had abused the cue, I'd probably take back. As long as the cue is essentially in the same condition as when I sold it. If it has obviously been abused then its on the buyer.
 
None

I would offer help in finding the rattle as a friend. You are under no obligation as the seller after someone has had the cue for two weeks.
 
franko said:
I would offer help in finding the rattle as a friend. You are under no obligation as the seller after someone has had the cue for two weeks.
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That's how I feel about an actual physical sale...if it was fine when he bought it.
...Brian has no control over how the cue was treated for two weeks.

....but I have had a tip or ferrule changed for a customer...on the house,
...and sometimes it's just a weight bolt needs tightening.

I had one guy come back after a few months....admitted he leaves it in his car all the time...
....shaft was warped....no refund.
 
TATE said:
What bad luck, Brian!

Surely you can figure out what is causing the rattle. Most likely something minor, a loose joint or ferrule, loose weight bolt/butt cap. Rarely will a cue come apart internally or split the wood without it being obvious. (I test my cues for rattles by tapping the ends on a table and listening before they are sold).

Personally, if there were no obvious dings or dents that weren't present when sold, I would probably take it back for a trade or refund, or send it off for repair (at my expense). That's just me though. Used items are sold "as is" and we all take our chances. Since he contacted you about it, he obviously doesn't feel that way. I hate to see people disappointed in something I sold them. For me returning $600 or getting a cue fixed is just a minor inconvenience.
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cubswin said:
Comes down to how many cues you sell in a year in your area. A online sale, I don't think I'd take it back. Too many things out of my control.

A in person sale, where I didn't think the buyer had abused the cue, I'd probably take back. As long as the cue is essentially in the same condition as when I sold it. If it has obviously been abused then its on the buyer.
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These posts are more or less how I feel about it (except I think how many cues you sell a year in the area is immaterial). It is a bit of a tough one for sure. Legally, you own him nothing. It is not any different than if you sold your car through craigslist and two weeks later the transmission goes out on the guy. From a moral and conscience perspective I am a bit more torn though, although you probably have no real moral obligation either.

But if the cue wasn't obviously abused I would probably offer a full refund or cover the repair out of my pocket. But another option that is hard to see as unfair to either side is to offer to split the cost of repair with him. It will probably be minor anyway. The reasoning is that even though it was an "as is" sale, I would still feel some moral responsibility to have sold him something that maintained suitability of use for a reasonable length of time (and a cue should certainly last longer than two weeks before "breaking". But on the flip side you had no way to foresee that there would be a problem, he inspected it before sale, the sale was an "as is" sale, and you have no way to know (at least at this moment) how the buyer's actions might have contributed to the problem in that you don't know how the cue was used, stored and treated during these two weeks.

Splitting the cost of repair would be reasonable, or a refund minus half of what the repair costs would be (if the repair cost will be $100, you refund $550). It shows good will and makes your conscience feel good even if legally or perhaps even morally you don't owe a thing.
 
Poolplaya9 said:
These posts are more or less how I feel about it (except I think how many cues you sell a year in the area is immaterial). It is a bit of a tough one for sure. Legally, you own him nothing. It is not any different than if you sold your car through craigslist and two weeks later the transmission goes out on the guy. From a moral and conscience perspective I am a bit more torn though, although you probably have no real moral obligation either.

But if the cue wasn't obviously abused I would probably offer a full refund or cover the repair out of my pocket. But another option that is hard to see as unfair to either side is to offer to split the cost of repair with him. It will probably be minor anyway. The reasoning is that even though it was an "as is" sale, I would still feel some moral responsibility to have sold him something that maintained suitability of use for a reasonable length of time (and a cue should certainly last longer than two weeks before "breaking". But on the flip side you had no way to foresee that there would be a problem, he inspected it before sale, the sale was an "as is" sale, and you have no way to know (at least at this moment) how the buyer's actions might have contributed to the problem in that you don't know how the cue was used, stored and treated during these two weeks.

Splitting the cost of repair would be reasonable, or a refund minus half of what the repair costs would be (if the repair cost will be $100, you refund $550). It shows good will and makes your conscience feel good even if legally or perhaps even morally you don't owe a thing.
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I don't think you have any responsibility to fix it if there was no issue in the first place. I would alway try to help if I could though. Likely a weight bolt come loose.

Just be careful not to open yourself up to him thinking you are Walmart and he can bring it back in another 2 months with a different issue. Make sure he knows you are helping as a goodwill gesture and not out of obligation as a seller

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
 
I'd have a quick look at it and see if it's something stupid, like a weight bolt. Barring that, I'd just take it back, Brian. It's just not worth the headache.
 
Good discussion so far, guys.

A little more background:

I provided a new tip that was installed and the weight bolt was checked and tightened. The cue looks fine physically.

We have narrowed it down now to def being in the forearm since when removing the shaft and hitting the forearm on the palm of my hand we can hear the buzz. Could be A-joint related.

The cue still hits well but there is now the tinny sound when striking the cue ball.

Again, this was not present when sold.

I contacted the cuemaker (great guy) who said in all of the years that he has been making cues, he has never performed such an internal repair and he candidly added that between him being so busy trying to keep up with his cue orders and the likelyhood that the cue would probably end up in the trash can, it just isn't something he'd want to tackle at this time.

The cuemaker also pointed out that the cue could have been left in a hot car or dropped, or who knows what other possibility that I would have no control over.

Comparisons come to mind also like buying a car privately and if two weeks later a muffler falls off who is responsible?

@flyvr9; there was no warranty discussed.

And for the record, I very rarely have sold cues locally though I agree, that shouldn't matter.

If the cue was dropped or left in the car or similar, I wouldn't want to be the good cue fairy and pay for someone's carelessness.

On the other hand, I do want to be fair - to him and me. ;)

Worth noting also is that this cue was very similar to my main playing cue and as such, it was the cue I left at my home table as my practice cue for the past year. It wouldn't have been for sale if I didn't have another one currently being made by the same maker. It played great.

With this add'l info, please keep the comments coming.

best,
brian kc
 
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I had a cue that devolved a buzz at the a joint. Cue maker didn't want to attempt a fix either and basically said it'd be about as easy to just build a new one. I'd had the cue for years at that point so he didn't offer to replace it, which I understand. He had no idea what had happened to I even though I know it had been extremely well cared for the whole time.

Anyway, shitty situation for sure. If youre 100% positive it wasn't there when sold then you have no obligation. Feel bad for the guy though for sure. If you trust he's cared doe the cue well since receiving it and it's not his fault then I'd probably try to split the cost with him maybe.

Sucks though, nobody gets to walk away happy when stuff like that happens.

Oh, and the cue I had I sold with full disclosure of the issue and basically priced it at the value of the two shafts it came with.
 
wow

That really sucks cause if you don't fix it you have to see him all the time, personally I would offer a trade or something just to keep face in my local room.

My opinion is he probably dropped the cue or hit it on something, I mean if you had this cue for some time with no problems, then he gets it and this happens. You could tell him
you'll spilt repair cost or maybe take back in trade at repair cost taken off on his end.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Good discussion so far, guys.

A little more background:

I provided a new tip that was installed and the weight bolt was checked and tightened. The cue looks fine physically.

We have narrowed it down now to def being in the forearm since when removing the shaft and hitting the forearm on the palm of my hand we can hear the buzz. Could be A-joint related.

The cue still hits well but there is now the tinny sound when striking the cue ball.

Again, this was not present when sold.

I contacted the cuemaker (great guy) who said in all of the years that he has been making cues, he has never performed such an internal repair and he candidly added that between him being so busy trying to keep up with his cue orders and the likelyhood that the cue would probably end up in the trash can, it just isn't something he'd want to tackle at this time.

The cuemaker also pointed out that the cue could have been left in a hot car or dropped, or who knows what other possibility that I would have no control over.

Comparisons come to mind also like buying a car privately and if two weeks later a muffler falls off who is responsible?

@flyvr9; there was no warranty discussed.

And for the record, I very rarely have sold cues locally.

With this add'l info, please keep the comments coming.

best,
brian kc
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It's hard to tell the difference between the A joint and the joint sounds. You could tape up the joint really well and see if the rattle goes away.

As you found out, an "A" joint rattle is major surgery and in some cases, depending on assembly techniques, cannot be effectively repaired without replacing the entire forearm. The repair is always risky to destroy the forearm in attempting to disassemble the cue. In any case, it's always expensive and involves at the minimum a new handle, refinish, and new wrap, $300 at the cheap end.

Many cues including Balabushka's have a minor buzz that do not, repeat, do not affect the way the cue plays. Anyway, very possible it was loose and went unnoticed. I would offer a trade in or refund and sell the cue in the future at a discount. by the way, I've been playing with a tip buzz for a year and a half, but I love the tip so it stays.
 
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I forgot where I originally heard it but one time I heard "a fair deal is one in which the buyer and seller are both equally unhappy about it". If you think about it, it makes absolute sense.

I think that same thought process can be applied to any fair and reasonable compromise with anyone over anything whether it be for a resolution to an argument with your spouse, or the resolution to a problem on a completed deal such as this. When you are both equally unhappy it is probably a good fair resolution or compromise. Not saying there aren't exceptions, but it is a pretty good rule of thumb.

If you give him a full refund or pay for the repairs in full he is going to be real happy but you are going to feel completely screwed because "it was an as is sale" and it "didn't have the problem at the time of sale" and "you don't know if he might have somehow caused it himself over the course of the two weeks" etc.

If he eats the loss you are going to be happy but he is going to feel completely screwed because "nothing should break withing two weeks especially a pool cue so I really got robbed on this deal" or that "it already had the issue but it didn't become evident until after I got it but that shouldn't be my problem", or worse yet he might even believe you somehow "knew at the time of the sale that it might develop this problem but withheld that information from me" etc.

And you both have at least one good point. That's why I kind of figured splitting the costs of repair (or do a refund minus half of what the repair would cost--same basic thing) might be the best resolution since you are both going to be equally unhappy about it. Not saying it is completely right, but it might be best. You are both going to feel a little screwed, but at the same time you are both going to understand the other guy's perspective and will know and respect that he tried to do the right thing as much as he could considering the circumstances and his at least somewhat valid points.
 
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Wonder what Ryan (ratcues) would charge to fix it? Maybe get it fixed and split the cost like mentioned above.
 
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