Reverse Cut Shots

asmith74

asmith74

Where I pay homage
Silver Member

CueTable Help



Hey all,
I?m hoping someone can give me a pointer on making a reverse cut shot. I can make them sometimes but it?s clearly the weakest point of my game. I?ve tried just on feel and using the ghost ball with the cue stick to mark to spot but It?s still pretty much the same result. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Btw?I know there is no strategic value in shooting a reverse cut on this particular nine ball. :D
 
these shots are tougher because you are shooting blind into the pocket. that is, the pocket is not in your line of sight. you can try using the rails as a guide to help locate the pocket. or maybe try raising your head a little to see more of the table and get a better feel for the angle?
 
Some people percieve shots differntly, your aiming system is dependant on how you percieve shots, and is the reason why there are seemingly so many. With your head dead center of the cue ball every shot, it makes it tough for players in certain situations to see the angle correctly.


Id suggest that before you set up on the shot, walk around the table behind the 9, find your contact point, lock your eyes there walk around the table and drop into your stance, shoot the shot, in your mind if it doesnt look right stop. stand up, go back down into your stance, give it a few practice strokes and fire, hit this shot easy at first, try to roll that ball into the hole. once you can pocket that shot at all speeds its yours.

I myself would pocket the 9 into the oposite corner pocket because i can see the shot better. but whatever suits you..


SPINDOKTOR
 
The trick is to use just the right amount of english to offset the contact throw imparted on the object ball. For the angle shown, 1/4 of a tip looks to be ample. Also, it is best to try to miss it too thin (left of the pocket here) , with pocket speed if you can, as opposed to banging it into the short rail.
 
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Here is a method that may or may not work for you - simply lining up the contact point to the center of the pocket opening.

Reverse_cuts.jpg
 
I suggest you learn to identify the cp on the ob and then learn to identify the matching cp on the cb, I use numbered cp's. Once you learn how to get that answer quickly and easily I suggest you forget about the angle of the shot and where the pocket is and put your energy into improving your perception & connection of these 2 points.

Here's a link to a previous aiming discusssion where I outlined the 1st half of my aiming workout in the attachments;
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=17682&highlight=aiming+section
Shots 1-3 are what your looking for.

and you can watch me shoot the 1st half of this workout on the video school section of my website.
 
Wow

:eek: Thanks for all the advice!! I'm going to print this out and try each one in the weeks ahead. Joe T Thanks for the link to that thread, Looks like i've got some reading ahead of me as well. :D
 
@asmith74,

Try this one:
Go to the side of the rail where A-ball and B-ball is laying (right side of the picture). Imagine a half ball hit, and draw this line. The angle between A-ball and B-ball is around 30 degrees (imagine a hook 90 degrees, cut it in half 45 degrees, split it in 2 lines, first line will be 15 degrees, the second line will be 30 degrees). Right now, you will know where the 9-ball will hit the rail (B-ball), when you do a half ball hit. Look at the angle between the pocket and the B-ball. Go behind the CB-ball, and you will know how to pot it.

CueTable Help

 
this is the weirdest thing. I just practiced a dozen or so shots set up exactly like this today (cuz I have trouble with 'em, duh), then I come read this thread.

I kept consistently undercutting the ball, and I was always trying to spin the ball in because I wanted to use low outside to keep the cue ball around the kitchen line. I realized that the problem was mostly that at the last second, my hand refused to accept and go along with what my eyes and brains said were the right amount of cut. At the last second before my stroke I took my eyes off the ball on purpose and watched my tip contact the cue ball, and I noticed I was steering it and changing the angle a bit.

Basically I didn't want to cut it as thinly as I needed to, so my back hand kept twisting to change the angle and deflection and eventually the amount I was cutting.

When I switched to not caring about english and really focusing on delivering the ball straight where I was pointing the tip, I did much better.

But I still needed to figure out how to do the shot with low outside and the only advice I have is that as much as you can, keep the pocket in view (it's harder on this cut than on most others) and let your eyes zigzag back and forth a few times between the pocket and the OB. This helps you get a better sense of the contact point or how thinly you need to hit.
 
I had to set this shot up 25-50 time a day for two months to get comfortable with it. I still don't like it...
 
CreeDo said:
this is the weirdest thing. I just practiced a dozen or so shots set up exactly like this today (cuz I have trouble with 'em, duh), then I come read this thread.

I kept consistently undercutting the ball, and I was always trying to spin the ball in because I wanted to use low outside to keep the cue ball around the kitchen line. I realized that the problem was mostly that at the last second, my hand refused to accept and go along with what my eyes and brains said were the right amount of cut. At the last second before my stroke I took my eyes off the ball on purpose and watched my tip contact the cue ball, and I noticed I was steering it and changing the angle a bit.

Basically I didn't want to cut it as thinly as I needed to, so my back hand kept twisting to change the angle and deflection and eventually the amount I was cutting.

When I switched to not caring about english and really focusing on delivering the ball straight where I was pointing the tip, I did much better.

But I still needed to figure out how to do the shot with low outside and the only advice I have is that as much as you can, keep the pocket in view (it's harder on this cut than on most others) and let your eyes zigzag back and forth a few times between the pocket and the OB. This helps you get a better sense of the contact point or how thinly you need to hit.
Click to expand...

Same problem with me except I tend to cut it too thin. H\ave for decades. I tell myself that it is just another shot, use my aiming technique, etc. but I subconsciously adjust on the final stroke for some unknow reason.

So, I've lately been setting up, practice stroking, then on the final stroke, I've been closing my eyes so my vision doesn't accidently affect my stroke. It's wierd to do this in competition, and it probably isn't the best method, but it's been working for me. I'm working on overcoming this twitch while keeping my eyes open but for now this is where I am.

fwiw,

Jeff Livingston
 
CreeDo said:
this is the weirdest thing. I just practiced a dozen or so shots set up exactly like this today (cuz I have trouble with 'em, duh), then I come read this thread.

I kept consistently undercutting the ball, and I was always trying to spin the ball in because I wanted to use low outside to keep the cue ball around the kitchen line.

On relatively difficult shots you need to avoid the use of english at all costs. By using english, you introduce squirt/throw making an already difficult shot that much more so.

If you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO use english to avoid disastrous shape then you should probably play safe in the first place.

As for curing your "Back Cut Blues", if you have a proper aiming system, then it makes no difference where the pocket is relative to the angle created by the CB/OB.

My aiming system does not even require paying much attention to the pocket (personal modification...and improvement in my opinion...of the "Houligan" system.)

But regardless of your system (which you indicate is not working) try a progressive drill. Set up the exact same reverse cut angle starting with the CB/OB close to the pocket and then just keep moving them further away.

Finally on aiming, it is TRUE that some all-time greats may not have even had one but rather just developed an intuitive FEEL about aiming. But A) those are people with SCARY eye/hand coordination who B) practiced/played 80 hours a week if not more.

Regards,
Jim
Edit: And some of the greats DO/DID have aiming systems but would not even THINK about telling anyone about them for obvious competitive reasons. Some even LIED about LOTS of things they did and didn't do. Willie Hoppe was one such player.
Click to expand...
 
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74,
this happens to be one of my favorite shots. I used it to pocket the 8 in a league match the other night. Of course, my position play wasn't that whupty to give me the shot in the first place, but I have made this shot often enough that I felt fairly comfortable with it.
 
74, didn't mean to post prematurely. I stroke the shot with medium or hard-medium speed, using 1/2 tip outside english. As one poster already said, it doesn't always look right when you are down on the shot, possibly because of the extreme angle. Pinpoint the contact point on the object ball, use whatever aiming system you use to deliver the cue ball to the contact point, and use 1/2 tip outside. A small amount of draw on the cb at the time of contact seems to help as well. Have fun!
F4P
 
These shots used to give me alot of trouble. I dont' fear these shots anymore. I practiced these types alot because being able to make these gave me easier position play on some shots, and like you said, you might sometimes need to put some outside english for position also. The way I overcame that was to lengthen my bridge more. Since I use BHE the longer bridge compensates itself with a smooth firm stroke. You have to trust your aim and your stroke on these shots or else you lose your confidence and of course you miss like I have many many times. :)
 
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