Revolutionary New Aiming System !

[BRKNRUN]

Ok, I was being too modest. Its exactly what he is doing. Why would anyone line up a straight shot by aiming off-center?
Logic [ and my own personal experience] dictates that he is not using the Q to line up. If he swivels back to make the shot it means that the bridge is already on the potting line.
Basically, he see's the line thru the middle of the 2 balls, places his bridge on that line and then swivels to make the shot.

Gabber.....wonder if I will score any Brownie points from the sports-fans for this astounding observation.............no chance.LOL..

That is one possibility....but there are others.....Have you ever heard the term "shish kebob"?

I am not prepared to commit to your experience or logic...I would rather go by FB's experience and logic on this one.....He may not possess more logic than you, but my guess is that he has a little more experience on the matter.

Then again...since we don't have access to FB..."guessing" is all we have to go on....so....guess on......I guess

 

[5aheadforpinks]

Ohhh, now I get it!

Ya actually the aiming system I use is quite complex but extreamly elegant and versitile. When I have any shot, even straight in shots, I get down behind the shot level with the table and look at the object ball from the cueballs perspective.
I look at it as if im hitting it 100% full, and I see where its going on its natural course and I make a visual reference of that spot on the rail. Now comes the elegance... once I know where the OB is going with 100% hit, I close my left eye and align the right edge of the CB to the left edge of the object ball, I look past the ball to the rail and make a visual note of that spot. Then I do the same thing for the other side. With this info now I have three spots on the rail which represent the entire eclipse the cue ball has of the OB. Now I look at which pocket im going after, either right, left or straight. If the pocket is on the right, I take the center spot and the left spot on the rail and I can divide these to get a half ball hit and so on... this way I know Im AIMING!

I also use a bit of meditation when Im lining up to keep me calm, and keep my mind on what Im doing. My mentor taught me a meditation hymn, similar to an "OHM" but better because it lets both halves of my brain communicate easier, and its broken into two parts so I never get bored! My chant goes like this, up till the point I release the cue ball from my tip.
The first part is:
"Im sofa king"
and the second part is:
"We Tod id"

This keeps me focused and clear headed... Try it!

 

[jsp]

The system only gets handed down through word of mouth to those worthy enough either by having open minds or just good guys in general. There are about 1/2 dozen guys on here that I've given it to. My take on it is...you're not worthy.

On the other hand...I've also passed it on to someone else who now has all the rights to discuss it and determine who is or isn't worthy. I taught him everything he knows. Call Hal Houle at your convenience...just give ME your REAL name in order that I can get in touch with him and tell him to expect your call before I give you his number.

Haha, nice try drivermaker. You say in one sentence that i'm not worthy enough...then you say in another sentence that i can obtain the secret info only if i divulge my real name. It's okay, i'd rather do without it. And besides, remaining anonymous is a lot more fun.

 

[2wld4u]

lol... Im suppose to respond to that? and no I hadnt mentioned anything about where to look to the guy I was trying to help.. it was a quirk in his stroke..


I could explain about contact points and argue all day long... I wont... to eaach his own.. some people see things differntly, and possibly dont shoot as much for accuracy as I do.. as long as it go's right?

obviously time at the table is what everyone needs.. I suggest that you look at the object ball instead of the cue ball on delivery, thats where feel and touch come in... and its accomplished with practice.. I can make a believer out of anyone, its really just to much to say in writing, a visual image is always worth more..

I actualy tried to explain this once before, it didnt work... so Im not going to go into great detail, I have given the basic fundamentals, and what to practice.. its up to the person to master thier own game...

early when I was learning the game I played on a 5x10 snooker table... that was my practice table.. I used regulation balls, and I had to shoot the pocket, the room for error compared to a 4 1/2x9 is miniscule..



I said I could hit exactly where I was aiming... a diamond, a spot on the clotch, etc.. that doesnt mean I can make a ball.. learning where to aim at any given shot to make it, you need a visual image to look at, a lazer is ideal.. after repetitions your minds eye will remember the shot.. making the shot the wrong way can however lead to bad muscle memory... There is just to much to cover and try to explain... Im not here to give lessons.. or to take lessons I spend time here to kick back and relax...

I am also very interested in the IPT, something to whitch Id really like to be a part of.. So please, I really dont want to argue, if you disagree hey! thats ok, but dont expect me to try and explain everything... I simply wont do it..

2wld4u

 

[Cornerman]

Ok, I was being too modest. Its exactly what he is doing. Why would anyone line up a straight shot by aiming off-center? p

Because he's using a stick aiming system.

Fred <~~~ uses a stick aiming system

 

[drivermaker]

Haha, nice try drivermaker. You say in one sentence that i'm not worthy enough...then you say in another sentence that i can obtain the secret info only if i divulge my real name. It's okay, i'd rather do without it. And besides, remaining anonymous is a lot more fun.

I see that YOU ALSO have a reading comprehension problem. I NEVER said that you could obtain the secret info if you divulged your real name. Go back an read it again 100 times with your dunce hat on. Then come back when you get it right. Are you really as dumb as you sound on here?

People that remain anonymous and just come on to be pains in the asses are nothing more than pains in the asses from the get go from choice. And THAT you've been.

 

[jsp]

I've read this sentence several times over and over. Having trouble "finding where to hit the object ball" is exactly when aim systems are most useful. Most people have no idea where to aim, because they are relying on intuitive judgement. And many people could stand to have more than intuitive judgement.

Intuitive judgement will only go so far if that's all a person relies on and it's most dangerous when a person gets in a funk, because they'll have nothing to rely on excepot their intuitive judgement and at that point it (their intuitive judgement) obviously isn't working.

I totally agree with you guys, Fred and Jaden. Nice ways of putting it.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornerman
I've read this sentence several times over and over. Having trouble "finding where to hit the object ball" is exactly when aim systems are most useful. Most people have no idea where to aim, because they are relying on intuitive judgement. And many people could stand to have more than intuitive judgement.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden
Intuitive judgement will only go so far if that's all a person relies on and it's most dangerous when a person gets in a funk, because they'll have nothing to rely on excepot their intuitive judgement and at that point it (their intuitive judgement) obviously isn't working.

I totally agree with you guys, Fred and Jaden. Nice ways of putting it.

Yes it's true that IJ breaks down under pressure, but a player who uses IJ must learn to be able to rely on it always.

There is always IJ in any shot, at the least in the speed aspect, so choking up is gonna hurt a system player even if he can manage to align perfectly under the pressure, which I think is hard.

We all know how to align a long straight shot, but plenty of people miss them under pressure. Just knowing where to hit ain't enough.

 

[jsp]

Yes it's true that IJ breaks down under pressure, but a player who uses IJ must learn to be able to rely on it always.

There is always IJ in any shot, at the least in the speed aspect, so choking up is gonna hurt a system player even if he can manage to align perfectly under the pressure, which I think is hard.

We all know how to align a long straight shot, but plenty of people miss them under pressure. Just knowing where to hit ain't enough.

Good point as well. But of course nothing will work (at least not consistently) if you don't put the cue ball exactly where you're intending. That's a totally different variable. For now, let's just assume that your stroke is dead on, and that you always hit the cue ball where you intend.

IJ is important, but it's also a good thing to check the accuracy of your IJ as well. An aiming system is a way to provide a system of checks and balances to your IJ. When you're pocketing "in the zone", it seems that IJ is the dominant factor when executing a cut shot. You just know where to aim, because it just "feels" right. But IJ is not an exact science, so you can wake up one morning and your IJ can be offset a millimeter or two in one direction. It may take several shots before you find out that you're consistently overcutting or undercutting the object ball. So the next step would be to compensate for the error, by shifting your IJ by an estimated amount. I say "estimated" because this is also an intuitive judgment call. There's a chance you may overcompensate or undercompensate, and miss even more balls in the process. By the time you obtain the correct "feel" for the shot, you'll always second guess because it doesn't agree with the original IJ you woke up with in the morning.

However, if you have a reliable aiming system, this correction process can be a lot faster and less damaging. You simply just reconcile what your IJ tells you with what your aiming system tells you. If there's a discrepancy, then you know that you should always fall back on what your aiming system tells you (of course only if it's a reliable system). When you get into one of these funks, you can just turn off your IJ (at least just for aiming, cuz you still need IJ for touch and speed) and rely on your system. You'll at least have a better chance to compete during these off days, rather than living and dying by IJ.

But Colin brings up a good point...there will always be some IJ when executing a shot, because there are no systems for speed, english, spin, and positioning...which is why you can't expect a programmed robot to consistenly beat Efren in 9ball.

 

[LAMas]

It's ok, I'm not selling anything

And it's really not that revolutionary, but as far as I'm aware I've added a new and useful twist to an aim system which is similar to Joe Tucker's contact point to contact point system. Based on the same principles anyway.

I was playing today and trying a few systems that had been recommended to me, and I decided to try out the contact point to contact point system. I actually found it to be far more intuitive than I had imagined. On most of my cut shots I had basically been observing the lines in much the same way anyway, though without the coscious recognition that I was aligning contact points.

Anyway, with just a couple of hours practice the system really improved a lot of shots I have struggled with.

It also completely re-arranged the way I have bee aligning some of my favorite reliable shots such as those with low OE near rails. I may have to erase my memory databases on these old alignment methods to incorporate this new method for all shots.

Anyway...into the aiming system details:

Pros: Technically accurate in terms of physics for all angles and lengths, such as the ghost ball, but easier to find the points to align.

No need to visualize actual hidden point on CB, can extrapolate to front face and visualize and actual line between two visable points.

Here is a diagram...then some more details and some Q&A.

I wish that you had added the center of the OB to your illustration as you did showing where the contact point OB1 is. Then I could say that if you take the distance from the center of the OB to OB1 and add the same distance away from the center of the OB (double) and aim for that point the cue ball will contact OB1 and the OB will go to the pocket.
I like your process for it is doing the same thing from another perspective and the results are the same - the ball goes to the pocket. Given that, it gets complicated when you need to get shape on the next ball requiring spin.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Good point as well. But of course nothing will work (at least not consistently) if you don't put the cue ball exactly where you're intending. That's a totally different variable. For now, let's just assume that your stroke is dead on, and that you always hit the cue ball where you intend.

IJ is important, but it's also a good thing to check the accuracy of your IJ as well. An aiming system is a way to provide a system of checks and balances to your IJ. When you're pocketing "in the zone", it seems that IJ is the dominant factor when executing a cut shot. You just know where to aim, because it just "feels" right. But IJ is not an exact science, so you can wake up one morning and your IJ can be offset a millimeter or two in one direction. It may take several shots before you find out that you're consistently overcutting or undercutting the object ball. So the next step would be to compensate for the error, by shifting your IJ by an estimated amount. I say "estimated" because this is also an intuitive judgment call. There's a chance you may overcompensate or undercompensate, and miss even more balls in the process. By the time you obtain the correct "feel" for the shot, you'll always second guess because it doesn't agree with the original IJ you woke up with in the morning.

However, if you have a reliable aiming system, this correction process can be a lot faster and less damaging. You simply just reconcile what your IJ tells you with what your aiming system tells you. If there's a discrepancy, then you know that you should always fall back on what your aiming system tells you (of course only if it's a reliable system). When you get into one of these funks, you can just turn off your IJ (at least just for aiming, cuz you still need IJ for touch and speed) and rely on your system. You'll at least have a better chance to compete during these off days, rather than living and dying by IJ.

But Colin brings up a good point...there will always be some IJ when executing a shot, because there are no systems for speed, english, spin, and positioning...which is why you can't expect a programmed robot to consistenly beat Efren in 9ball.

jsp,
I think you expanded upon my points and linked them to the potential of aiming systems very clearly and accurately.

I appreciate the good reading!

Colin

 

[Colin Colenso]

I wish that you had added the center of the OB to your illustration as you did showing where the contact point OB1 is. Then I could say that if you take the distance from the center of the OB to OB1 and add the same distance away from the center of the OB (double) and aim for that point the cue ball will contact OB1 and the OB will go to the pocket.
I like your process for it is doing the same thing from another perspective and the results are the same - the ball goes to the pocket. Given that, it gets complicated when you need to get shape on the next ball requiring spin.

I think you mean something like I've drawn below.

That's not a bad way of judging the distance to offset the cue for alignment.

Blue line is the line through the two centers of the balls.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Another pic showing the Ghost Ball just for interest.

 

[Zorro]

Thanks for the discussions here.

My own method of aiming is not what I'd call a system, but you may disagree. I visualize the best path for the OB depending on the angle involved. I then locate the contact point that will send the OB down this path. Then I visualize which edge of the CB will have to connect with the contact point in order to make the shot. Sometimes, I add a little spin to prevent the ball from skidding. My method of spin is BHE.

Some shots I have found are very hard to visualize easily. Even though you locate the contact point, when you get down on the shot, you still may have a tendency to misalign your shot due to optical illusion. It's for these hard to visualize shots that I find systems like the one discussed here extremely useful. They are a great help to ensure that you are really seeing things correctly. I tried the system here on some of my more difficult shots and it worked fine to correct my usual misperception. I will use it in these situations. I did find the system difficult to combine with BHE, but fine with center ball shots.

 

[TheConArtist]

It's ok, I'm not selling anything

And it's really not that revolutionary, but as far as I'm aware I've added a new and useful twist to an aim system which is similar to Joe Tucker's contact point to contact point system. Based on the same principles anyway.

I was playing today and trying a few systems that had been recommended to me, and I decided to try out the contact point to contact point system. I actually found it to be far more intuitive than I had imagined. On most of my cut shots I had basically been observing the lines in much the same way anyway, though without the coscious recognition that I was aligning contact points.

Anyway, with just a couple of hours practice the system really improved a lot of shots I have struggled with.

It also completely re-arranged the way I have bee aligning some of my favorite reliable shots such as those with low OE near rails. I may have to erase my memory databases on these old alignment methods to incorporate this new method for all shots.

Anyway...into the aiming system details:

Pros: Technically accurate in terms of physics for all angles and lengths, such as the ghost ball, but easier to find the points to align.

No need to visualize actual hidden point on CB, can extrapolate to front face and visualize and actual line between two visable points.

Here is a diagram...then some more details and some Q&A.

Hey Colin, i wanted to ask you or the people who use this system do you use the same side of the cueball on all shots including left and right cuts, as i use nothing but the right side of the cueball to aim and pivot, as i find it hard to use the other side the left side i mean. I know Django uses the left side on all the shots that i see him. Maybe Fred can reply to this too.

 

[Flex]

(...)

Some shots I have found are very hard to visualize easily. Even though you locate the contact point, when you get down on the shot, you still may have a tendency to misalign your shot due to optical illusion. It's for these hard to visualize shots that I find systems like the one discussed here extremely useful. They are a great help to ensure that you are really seeing things correctly. I tried the system here on some of my more difficult shots and it worked fine to correct my usual misperception. I will use it in these situations. I did find the system difficult to combine with BHE, but fine with center ball shots.

The key problem, IMHO, is that when getting down on the shot, optical illusions play tricks on you. This is huge. My solution for this problem is something I learned after using Joe Tucker's 3rd Eye stroke trainer. It is that at a certain height, in my case it's when my chin is about 18 inches or so above the cue, everything looks straight. A bit higher and some illusions appear, getting down on the shot and they become even worse. So what I do is try to always shoot with the vision that gives me a perfect overall view of the shot, and by golly if the object ball and cue ball are close together, say 5 or 6 inches or so, or less, I'll make really sure that I see the exact contact point on the object ball and line up the contact point on the cue ball as best I can, especially on looooong shots.

That being said, there are some shots, reference shots I think some people call them, that come up over and over and over and which I just know how to shoot, even when really down over the cue. Those ones I just execute that way, no need to reinvent the wheel. But on those long straight in or almost straight in shots, the training with the 3rd eye has really helped.

In another vein, I recently started shooting with a Predator shaft on a sneaky pete butt, and have found out that using BHE with the shaft on one butt versus another one changes the distances for using BHE, that is the pivot point changes, and makes it play a bit more like a regular cue. The sneaky butt as opposed to a Meucci HOF-2 butt changes how much the cue ball squirts when shooting with english. Guess what, the Predator shaft with the sneaky pete butt allows me to shoot with BHE much more consistently. Man, I like that

These various systems are all useful.

I've figured out another one, for cut shots when the cue ball is close to or frozen on the rail. It's partly speed and stoke dependent, and it varies from table to table and from one set of balls to another, and takes into account how much the object ball will be thrown when shooting at a given speed when shooting high on the cue ball. Maybe too complicated to explain here, but if anyone's interested, I may try.

Great thread, Colin!

Flex

 

[Colin Colenso]

Hey Colin, i wanted to ask you or the people who use this system do you use the same side of the cueball on all shots including left and right cuts, as i use nothing but the right side of the cueball to aim and pivot, as i find it hard to use the other side the left side i mean. I know Django uses the left side on all the shots that i see him. Maybe Fred can reply to this too.

Hi Con Artist,
I don't know of any systems that align from the same side of the CB for both cut directions. I guess it's possible to work out a system that adapts to this, but it seems a bit like using a puncture repair kit instead of buying a new tyre

I see a lot of right handed players who unintentionally hit the CB on the right side, and align this way also. I've fought this tendency too. I think the best solution is to work hard on getting more comfortable aligning through the exact center of the CB.

btw: I proposed this system as an alternative. I don't use it, except sometimes as a kind of alignment check.
Colin

 

[X Breaker]

Hi Con Artist,
I don't know of any systems that align from the same side of the CB for both cut directions. I guess it's possible to work out a system that adapts to this, but it seems a bit like using a puncture repair kit instead of buying a new tyre

I see a lot of right handed players who unintentionally hit the CB on the right side, and align this way also. I've fought this tendency too. I think the best solution is to work hard on getting more comfortable aligning through the exact center of the CB.

btw: I proposed this system as an alternative. I don't use it, except sometimes as a kind of alignment check.
Colin

Colin, please forgive my ignorance--I am totally lost here. What is CB1 and CB2?

Thank you.

Richard

 

[erikido]

I have not read through all of this so sorry if I am reposting what someone else had already said. But, as someone else said I go almost 100% by feel. I may have a system in doing it. But, I don't know what it is. That is how your brain works after all. It finds connections to things that you already knows and applies it too what you are presently doing. Back in the day when I was playing six to eight hours a day I was a MUCH better shot maker. I can still make some crazy shots. But, still not near what I used to do and I have a lot more "knowledge"(Book) of the game now. But, back then I had much more "knowledge" as in experience and observation of what happened when I used certain strokes, speeds etc.

For me I think it is good to use systems for aiming in practice. However, I will always go back to feel when in a match. The last thing I want to be doing is thinking about whether I performed each operation in the system correctly and even if you do most of them have adjustments that need to be made(especially kicking systems) anyways. Adjusments like what speed are you hitting the ball and what spin. So the question is why use a system if you have to adjust the system with feel anyways?



Oh and one question...
To whoever said there are systems which are accurate and need no feel would you care to explain a specific one?

 

[TheConArtist]

Thanks for the reply Colin (Calc) i know i don't really use it that much anymore i know how to use it and remember myself i have it in my bag of tricks, I align the shot by center cueball now after i started to put my chin back on the cue but time to time i feel i don't have the right angle so using the aim and pivot i know i can get the right angle. I think i made up enough and learned about everything on aimng systems by reading, watching, and tests and they all boil down to the same thing personally speaking.